1G Transmission won’t go into neutral

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Already mentioned it isn't an end nut problem. Intermediate doesn't touch the end case and input length/freeplay is determined by the bearing and bearing plate not 5th gear. So that leaves the entire 5th/reverse assembly. You've assembled something incorrectly on 5th/reverse and when you bolt on end case it's binding. I would remove the assembly and check it. I assume you did not change anything. Those synchro keys are definitely not sitting correctly and need to be corrected to be able to install the reverse synchro. Gotta ask, how on earth do you install a synchro incorrectly? Kinda only goes one way.

I caught the syncro keys sticking out and a rather "ugly" syncro too. The slider over extended without the cover on. Gotta fix that and make sure the syncro is indexed with the keys.
Just pull the end nut and assy.

 

[Breadvans]

I caught the syncro keys sticking out and a rather "ugly" syncro too. The slider over extended without the cover on. Gotta fix that and make sure the syncro is indexed with the keys.
Just pull the end nut and assy.

How would the slider have over extended? How do i not let that happen?

 

[pauleyman]

How would the slider have over extended? How do i not let that happen?

You can't put the slider towards reverse without a synchro. The keys will fall.

 

[Breadvans]

You can't put the slider towards reverse without a synchro. The keys will fall.

I think i gotcha now. So i just gotta take the top apart and make sure the slider is down more? Then now put it in reverse until it’s all bolted back together?

 

[pauleyman]

I think i gotcha now. So i just gotta take the top apart and make sure the slider is down more? Then now put it in reverse until it’s all bolted back together?

No.
Take it apart. Figure out if everything in the hub/slider assembly is assembled correctly and then put it back on. I'm betting that is the wrong synchro for 5th. Not sure how. Just looks wrong. When you put the assembly back on the keys have to line up the hub/sleeve with the synchro slots or it will jam. Install the nut. Install reverse synchro and leave everything in neutral. You'll probably have to hold the synchro in place with a little sticky grease.
Install end case.
I suppose you could try and put the reverse synchro on then shift to reverse to hold it into the sleeve but if it falls the keys will probably slip and it will be a pain. Usually this is on the bench. Horizontal assembly is a little harder.

 

[Breadvans]

No.
Take it apart. Figure out if everything in the hub/slider assembly is assembled correctly and then put it back on. I'm betting that is the wrong synchro for 5th. Not sure how. Just looks wrong. When you put the assembly back on the keys have to line up the hub/sleeve with the synchro slots or it will jam. Install the nut. Install reverse synchro and leave everything in neutral. You'll probably have to hold the synchro in place with a little sticky grease.
Install end case.
I suppose you could try and put the reverse synchro on then shift to reverse to hold it into the sleeve but if it falls the keys will probably slip and it will be a pain. Usually this is on the bench. Horizontal assembly is a little harder.

How would i be able to tell if it’s the correct synchro for 5th? This is really my first time ever being in a transmission, so I’m not to the point where i can tell by looking. By the keys do you mean just go in the slots on the top gear? Or do they have to go in to something also below that top part?

 

[twicks69]

Please disassemble and post pictures. I cannot help without detailed photos.

 

[pauleyman]

Agree. Take it apart and post pics.

As for synchro look at it. Teeth need to line up with the gear and those don't appear to do so. And some teeth look crushed. The design and how it works is pretty easy to understand if you just examine it.

 

[Breadvans]

Sorry guys rough week. Finally got it taken apart and here's all the pics I got.

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[Breadvans]

No.
Take it apart. Figure out if everything in the hub/slider assembly is assembled correctly and then put it back on. I'm betting that is the wrong synchro for 5th. Not sure how. Just looks wrong. When you put the assembly back on the keys have to line up the hub/sleeve with the synchro slots or it will jam. Install the nut. Install reverse synchro and leave everything in neutral. You'll probably have to hold the synchro in place with a little sticky grease.
Install end case.
I suppose you could try and put the reverse synchro on then shift to reverse to hold it into the sleeve but if it falls the keys will probably slip and it will be a pain. Usually this is on the bench. Horizontal assembly is a little harder.

Do the keys have to go through another gear? Or is it just that very top gear to hold in that clip? Cuz I see this other has holes for the keys but no keys

 

[pauleyman]

Do the keys have to go through another gear? Or is it just that very top gear to hold in that clip? Cuz I see this other has holes for the keys but no keys

I don't understand what you're asking.

I can see that the synchro on 5th is not correct. It should not sit flat against the gear. Is it wedged on there?

 

[Breadvans]

I don't understand what you're asking.

I can see that the synchro on 5th is not correct. It should not sit flat against the gear. Is it wedged on there?

It is very tightly wedged on there. Couldn't get it off with a prybar

 

[pauleyman]

You're gonna need to figure that out. Likely will need a new 5th synchro if not an entire hub sleeve. I can't tell what you did but I suspect you didn't have synchro lined up

 

[Breadvans]

You're gonna need to figure that out. Likely will need a new 5th synchro if not an entire hub sleeve. I can't tell what you did but I suspect you didn't have synchro lined up

I ordered a new 5th syncro anyways, just because of a couple damaged teeth. Hopefully I don't need an entire hub sleeve, but how do you line it up? Did I have the syncro upside down or is that the right direction?

 

[pauleyman]

It's correct. It's pretty self explanatory. Sleeve goes over hub. Inset keys and retain with springs. Synchro notches line up to keys. So when you slide hub/sleeve on shaft down to 5th gear yiu have to line up synchro to keys. That's likely what you didn't do. These the short version. Hub and sleeve are not symmetrical either. Dot on hub goes to clutch side. Sleeve bevels are different angles. That's how you tell sides apart. I don't remember which is which. My books are in storage. You'll have to go Google or search.

 

[Breadvans]

It's correct. It's pretty self explanatory. Sleeve goes over hub. Inset keys and retain with springs. Synchro notches line up to keys. So when you slide hub/sleeve on shaft down to 5th gear yiu have to line up synchro to keys. That's likely what you didn't do. These the short version. Hub and sleeve are not symmetrical either. Dot on hub goes to clutch side. Sleeve bevels are different angles. That's how you tell sides apart. I don't remember which is which. My books are in storage. You'll have to go Google or search.

Gotcha, so is it a different set of keys or is the same set of keys for the reverse syncro that are used for both? Like should I have 6 total keys or just 3

 

[pauleyman]

3. They engage synchros on both sides

 

[bastarddsm]

Dude, that 5th synchro is boned now too. You need to find a factory shop manual and read the transmission section. Practice until you figure it out, then assemble for real with non damaged parts. These are simple transmissions. Find an old gear head that played with top loaders and T10's in muscle cars synchronizer assemblies are very similar.

You are missing many key things that are hard to convey through a forum. If you keep moving forward it is 100% likely that you will destroy nearly irreplaceable parts.

 

[steve]

Like this one?

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/1g-dsm-manual-transmission-and-transfer-case-rebuild-service-manual.517379/

And this one?

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/1g-2g-dsm-manual-transmission-and-transfer-case-rebuild-factory-mechanics-training-service-manual.517370/

 

[Breadvans]

Just wanted to update this thread, pretty sure I found what you guys meant. I didn't have the keys lined up in the 5th gear syncro, ordering a new syncro and should be able to put it back together. Appreciate all your guys help!