Tranny mentor needed....

[Justified Expense]

So.....I have a trashed tranny and bought another used one...so now I have 2 F5M33s. I cracked the case on the one I bought and it looks solid but I would like to attempt a rebuild...never done it before....I lust to learn. Poured over the past threads on rebuilds and book marked a lot of info. I understand the concepts of preload and how to measure. I have all the tools except for one.......experience. I am going to continue to run this thread in hopes that a mentor will guide me threw the build. Yes I will have a lot of stupid questions but thus is the hallmark of a good student. Any help with this will be greatly appreciated.

I am getting ready to purchase a Quaife LSD and need to order a rebuild kit. My first question is about which kit to buy. The sync gears in the blown tranny look about brand new and I would like to use them in the one I am rebuilding to save a little money....then I would only have to order a bearing and seal kit. Upon inspection there is no evidence that any broken metal affected these gears.....Can I do this???? Please see pics for detail.
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[pauleyman]

Again pay careful attention which races are loose and which ones aren't some which may appear to be pressed if you use your fingers and move it around you'll realize it's merely a very very tight tolerance

 

[Justified Expense]

The one on the differential is one that I think is not pressed in....it came out too easily. The others were not coming out without the puller but I will give close inspection when I put the new ones in tomorrow....thank you

 

[pauleyman]

Youll know which ones are or arent easily.

 

[joemamma]

very good and detailed write up--good job so far

 

[Justified Expense]

With all newbies you get your dumb questions...I am no different. I saw what you meant about some races not being pressed in. The only one that was not was the race to the differential....all the others had to be driven in. I am down to the race for the output shaft and I note that there seems to be a rather heavy duty seal. The kit I bought has a seal of the same size but not the same quality. I realize that when you buy an aftermarket rebuild kit things are not going to be exactly the same but this is the only place I can find that this seal may fit. Before I go buggering things up, my question is does this seal get replaced during a normal rebuild? Should I pry it out and use the supplied seal?

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[pauleyman]

Flip that seal over take a look again. Yes you should replace that seal but if that seal doesn't match I would get the OEM seal

 

[pauleyman]

I'm surprised you didn't ask any questions about shimming. You do know that you have to reshim whenever you replace bearings?

 

[twicks69]

He will have to learn sooner or later.

As a FYI guys, just use a slide hammer with a Miller 9664 race removal tool. Ebay. Cheap. Dealer tool. The cheapest way to get the tool is typically actually in a tool kit with some other excellent tools (for use with press) - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Miller-Spec...124221?hash=item20dbd504fd:g:NW8AAOxyzi9SlmDL

The LX AWD kit has 6 out of 7 tools I regularly use, and I work on these transmissions daily.

You might need to make a threaded attachment adapter to fit the tool instead of paying out for an OTC or Miller tool thread adapter to fit your slide hammer. Just get a threaded union and then a SAE bolt that fits the thread pitch of the tool and then weld it together. Super easy.

Other tools that are excellent to have are the seal installers, Miller MD-998321 for input seal, Miller MH061400 for AWD output seal, Miller 8891 for AWD driver side axle seal, Miller MB991115 for AWD passenger side seal /FWD axle seals, Miller 8475 driver tool for use with MB991115. Then grab a bearing race installer kit, like this - https://www.amazon.com/Alltrade-948004-Bearing-Race-Installer/dp/B005SMUOR4

As for shims, I still pretty much stock every available shim for AWD and FWD DSM transmissions as well as transfer cases and rear differentials.

Here is a list of AWD/FWD transmission shims -

SHIMS DSM Input Shaft and Front Differential
Part Description - - Part Number - - Thickness (in)
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168147 - - 0.0173
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168148 - - 0.0189
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168149 - - 0.0205
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168150 - - 0.0220
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168151 - - 0.0236
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168152 - - 0.0252
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD727659 - - 0.0256
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168153 - - 0.0268
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168154 - - 0.0283
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD727660 - - 0.0291
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168155 - - 0.0299
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168156 - - 0.0315
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD727661 - - 0.0315
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD720937 - - 0.0327
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168157 - - 0.0331
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD720938 - - 0.0338
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168158 - - 0.0346
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD720939 - - 0.0350
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD720940 - - 0.0362
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168159 - - 0.0362
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD720941 - - 0.0374
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168160 - - 0.0378
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD720942 - - 0.0386
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168161 - - 0.0394
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD720943 - - 0.0398
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD720944 - - 0.0409
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168162 - - 0.0409
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD720945 - - 0.0421
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168163 - - 0.0425
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD710454 - - 0.0433
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168164 - - 0.0441
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD700270 - - 0.0445
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168165 - - 0.0457
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD710455 - - 0.0457
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD710456 - - 0.0468
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168166 - - 0.0472
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD700271 - - 0.0480
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168167 - - 0.0488
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD710457 - - 0.0492
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168168 - - 0.0504
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD710458 - - 0.0504
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD706574 - - 0.0516
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168169 - - 0.0520
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD710459 - - 0.0527
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168170 - - 0.0535"
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD710460 - - 0.0539
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168171 - - 0.0551
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD706573 - - 0.0551
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD710461 - - 0.0563
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168172 - - 0.0567
Shim - Input Shaft - - MD710462 - - 0.0575
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168173 - - 0.0583
Shim - Input Shaft - - MN168174 - - 0.0598
- - - -
Part Description - - Part Number - - Thickness (in)
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720948 - - 0.0315
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720949 - - 0.0327
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720950 - - 0.0338
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720951 - - 0.0350
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720952 - - 0.0362
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720953 - - 0.0374
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720954 - - 0.0386
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720955 - - 0.0398
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720956 - - 0.0409
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720957 - - 0.0421
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720958 - - 0.0433
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720959 - - 0.0445
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720960 - - 0.0457
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720961 - - 0.0468
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD720962 - - 0.0480
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD724156 - - 0.0480
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD712346 - - 0.0492
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD724157 - - 0.0492
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD712347 - - 0.0504
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD724158 - - 0.0504
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD712348 - - 0.0516
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD724159 - - 0.0516
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD712349 - - 0.0527
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD712329 - - 0.0539
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD712330 - - 0.0551
Shim - Intermediate Shaft - - MD712331 - - 0.0563
- - - -
Part Description - - Part Number - - Thickness (in)
Shim - Center Differential - - MD736928 - - 0.0445
Shim - Center Differential - - MD736929 - - 0.0457
Shim - Center Differential - - MD736751 - - 0.0468
Shim - Center Differential - - MD736931 - - 0.0480
Shim - Center Differential - - MD726166 - - 0.0492
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718517 - - 0.0504
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718518 - - 0.0516
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718519 - - 0.0527
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718520 - - 0.0539
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718521 - - 0.0551
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718522 - - 0.0563
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718523 - - 0.0575
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718524 - - 0.0587
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718525 - - 0.0598
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718526 - - 0.0610
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718527 - - 0.0622
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718528 - - 0.0634
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718529 - - 0.0646
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718530 - - 0.0657
Shim - Center Differential - - MD718531 - - 0.0669
Shim - Center Differential - - MD721959 - - 0.0681
Shim - Center Differential - - MD721960 - - 0.0692
Shim - Center Differential - - MD721961 - - 0.0705
- - - -
Part Description - - Part Number - - Thickness (in)
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD746510 - - 0.0421
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD746511 - - 0.0433
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD756755 - - 0.0445
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD756756 - - 0.0457
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD756757 - - 0.0469
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD756758 - - 0.0480
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD756759 - - 0.0492
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD726167 - - 0.0504
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD726168 - - 0.0516
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD726169 - - 0.0527
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724326 - - 0.0539
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724327 - - 0.0551
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724328 - - 0.0563
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724329 - - 0.0575
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724330 - - 0.0587
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724331 - - 0.0598
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724332 - - 0.0610
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724333 - - 0.0622
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724334 - - 0.0634
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724335 - - 0.0646
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724336 - - 0.0657
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724337 - - 0.0669
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724338 - - 0.0681
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724339 - - 0.0692
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724340 - - 0.0705
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724341 - - 0.0716
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724342 - - 0.0728
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724343 - - 0.0740
Shim - Output Shaft - - MD724344 - - 0.0751
- - - -
AWD and FWD intermediate shaft shims are slightly different size but are interchangeable
- - - -
Part Description - - Part Number - - Thickness (in)
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724147 - - 0.0374
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724148 - - 0.0386
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724149 - - 0.0398
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724150 - - 0.0409
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724151 - - 0.0421
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724152 - - 0.0433
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724153 - - 0.0445
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724154 - - 0.0457
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724155 - - 0.0469
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724156 - - 0.0480
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724157 - - 0.0492
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724158 - - 0.0504
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724159 - - 0.0516
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724160 - - 0.0528
Shim - FWD Intermediate Shaft - - MD724161 - - 0.0539

 

[Justified Expense]

Well, I tried to do my homework by combing threw the older threads before I started posting. If by shimming, do you mean measuring preload and putting the correct size shim under the bearing races that do not have to be pressed in? I thought that was done at the end of the build when you put the cases together with the solder to measure. Now I found shims under the races that were not pressed in when I took the tranny down. Have I missed something while doing my homework?......Incidentally, thank you for the shim chart above....I was kinda wondering how I was going to find them.

 

[Justified Expense]

And by the way I am kinda dangerous with any kind of hammer....would rather use a puller.

 

[pauleyman]

Yes you do it at the end. I kinda thought you were there. I also assumed you knew a slide hammer is a puller accessory basically

 

[BoostedBeaver]

I’m a little late to the party and there is already some good help in here. Here is a link to my build thread. Number 7,8 and 9 under the table of contents cover my transmission rebuild in pretty good detail. Hopefully it helps you as you continue the process.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/1990-eagle-talon-sleeper.427853/

Robert

 

[Justified Expense]

I try to be a good student....and I am 53 and have never used a slide hammer in my life.....I know what one looks like but never really had the need for one. Plus I was pretty proud of my modified puller.....please don't pee in the students corn flakes, .

 

[Justified Expense]

Took a break for a minute.....got 3 projects rolling at one time but finally got back to the tranny. Pulled and replaced the seal as you said paulyman then started on the shafts. I began with the output shaft first and had no problem pulling and replacing the bearings.

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[Justified Expense]

Moving on to the input shaft I noted one bearing was recessed partially into the gear. There was no way to get a puller behind it so I decided to cut the cage and when all the bearings and cage came off I was able to get a bite on the inner piece and press it off the shaft.

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[pauleyman]

Moving on to the input shaft I noted one bearing was recessed partially into the bearing. There was no way to get a puller behind it so I decided to cut the cage and when all the bearings and cage came off I was able to get a bite on the inner piece and press it off the shaft.

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Depending on which bearing it is sometimes I press an entire gear stack off bearing and all. Be careful if you try this because there are some hidden snap rings or things that shouldn't be pressed on. On your first try you should do it one by one but when you reassemble you will notice how things go and what you might have been able to press off all at once. As for the method you use to remove that bearing looked good to me. Perfectly acceptable method.

 

[Justified Expense]

Using my 20 ton I was able to press off and on with ease. If I was pulling a gear I made sure not to rely only on the teeth. I got as much of the gear under the press blocks as I could so as not to break a tooth. I realize this part did not necessarily need to be pressed off but it was on pretty tight and I am not one to use a pry bar if I have a better option.

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[pauleyman]

By the way the Rings you find are actually lock rings and not snap rings and I use a Lisle 44900 lock ring plier to remove them.

 

[pauleyman]

Using my 20 ton I was able to press off and on with ease. If I was pulling a gear I made sure not to rely only on the teeth. I got as much of the gear under the press blocks as I could so as not to break a tooth. I realize this part did not necessarily need to be pressed off but it was on pretty tight and I am not one to use a pry bar if I have a better option.

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If that is a harbor freight press I would seriously consider getting a different set of press plates. I've seen those chip or shatter before. I use a set of half inch steel blocks and I have an assortment of tubing, shaft and a couple pieces of I-beam that work very well as spacers. Chunks of metal basically.

 

[Justified Expense]

Removing everything from the shaft was not as bad as I thought. I just had to pay attention and lined everything up the exact same way it came off. As I did I replaced the sync gears as I came to them with the new ones in my rebuild kit. The ones on the input shaft matched up great. I was able to rebuild that shaft with no problem and moved on to the intermediate shaft.

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[Justified Expense]

The press is not HF, got it from Greg Smith Equipment but still Chinese made. I will definitely look into you suggestion....I don't want anything that is unsafe. The rings were a bit tricky to get off but I had no big problem.

 

[Justified Expense]

Now these little parts, whatever they are called, required a bit more attention. I noted they were held in place by a spring ring on both sides. I had to make sure I had all the gears including the sync gears in the right position when reassembling this part. I alternated where the ends of the rings end on both sides so the end of both rings would not be on the same small piece....whatever they are called.

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[Justified Expense]

I also accumulated an assortment of tubing and things to press the bearings back on. I ground down and beveled the edges so they would only push on the inner part of the bearing

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[Justified Expense]

I rebuilt the input and output shaft with no problem...if fact I was surprised at how well it went. I made sure I applied oil on reassembly so all parts operated smoothly. Then I came to the intermediate shaft and found out to my dismay that none of the sync gears in my kit were the same. The sync gears that are in it look cool with no wear but as I had it all apart I wanted to replace them and noted the new gears were missing half the teeth. I am 99.9% I have the correct kit.....did they do an upgrade that I am unaware of???? I stopped right here until I got some input on this forum.

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[Justified Expense]

What say you pauleyman? do I have the right kit? Everything...the bearings, seals, and input shaft syncs are the same, only the intermediate shaft syncs are different.