To clip or not to clip?

[fwdeclipse]

I am just wondering if anyone has any experience with a mhi 20g with the td05h wheel and running it non clipped. Most of the td05 20gs I have seen come clipped. I have a 20g that is getting rebuilt and he current turbine is damaged and I need a new one. jsmux is rebuilding it for me (great guy) and has some unclipped td05h turbines that were gonna throw in there. Just wondering what you guys think, should I get it clipped or do you think clipping is overrated. Thanks for any opinions.

 

[dsm-onster]

I am just wondering if anyone has any experience with a mhi 20g with the td05h wheel and running it non clipped. Most of the td05 20gs I have seen come clipped. I have a 20g that is getting rebuilt and he current turbine is damaged and I need a new one. jsmux is rebuilding it for me (great guy) and has some unclipped td05h turbines that were gonna throw in there. Just wondering what you guys think, should I get it clipped or do you think clipping is overrated. Thanks for any opinions.

Clipping is NOT overrated. For an MHI unit. Your 20g will flow little more than an evo3 16g w/ that clammy td05h turbine unmodified. I've seen a big 16g record over 40 lb/min with a clip. It would be best to get a td06h or the "new" td06sl wheel. The sl wheel seams to spool VERY fast for it's flow potential. . .

At least clip it. Give your 20g compressor some breathing room.

 

[brute]

If it was up to me, I'd pass on the clipping. I never liked the idea of clipping turbos, especially with the availability of different compressors and turbine wheels nowadays. You can pretty much get everything you want just choosing the right wheel combination; there's really no need to do something like clipping a turbine.

 

[fwdeclipse]

Well I dont really have the option of choosing another turbine. Its either a clipped tdo5h or a none clipped tdo5h. I bought this 20g in "working condition" off some guy and it was blown beyond beleif. So I am short on money. So its one or the other for me. I am leaning towards clipping it as of right now. I would like to hear from someone who has run a 20g clipped and not. Thanks guys.

 

[dsm-onster]

Well I dont really have the option of choosing another turbine. Its either a clipped tdo5h or a none clipped tdo5h. I bought this 20g in "working condition" off some guy and it was blown beyond beleif. So I am short on money. So its one or the other for me. I am leaning towards clipping it as of right now. I would like to hear from someone who has run a 20g clipped and not. Thanks guys.

I hear you. A td06h is quite large and swapping it in can be costly. There is NOT an availability of different turbines in the world of MHI. td06h flows muck like a t3stage 5. and a td05h flows much like a t3 stage 2. Where's the middle. . . The new td06SL seams to fit that joint, but again the costs are a bit more than clipping.

I've run an unclipped 18g. And, wish I had it clipped. It was great spooling but fell on it's face at levels similar to an evo3 16g. A 18g compressor inducer is closer in diameter to a 20g than an evo3 16g compressor. All three have the same exducer diameter and general blade shape. So you'll likely notice the same drop-off. . . Unless you clip.

FP sells all their td05h 20Gs w/ a clip.

 

[TurboAnything]

the MHI Tdo5h wheel has been a proven winner when clipped that is why all the major companies build 20g's clipped. For the size of the 20g compressor and the small nature of the tdo5h turbine its almost a must.

 

[fwdeclipse]

Great thanks alot guys I think I will be getting this done once I get my turbo back. Do you guys reccomend sending it to buschur or fp. I know that buschur clips it 20* and I think fp's is a 10* which one would you recommend sending it to. They both charge 75 bucks.

 

[brute]

the MHI Tdo5h wheel has been a proven winner when clipped that is why all the major companies build 20g's clipped.

If that's the case, why aren't clipped Evo III 16g's the industry standard? Once you have the turbo, your options are very limited. However, if you are buying one and have all the options at hand, I would advise to chose turbine wheel accordingly as opposed to clipping anything.

 

[Jeff91AWD]

I think I am valid to comment on this thread, because I have ran a MHI 20G unclipped and clipped (just put it on car). I can tell you this... at boost levels much above 20-21psi, the unclipped 20G will compressor surge fairly bad, at least my car with FP2 cams and a 2.5'' FMIC and 2.5'' exh. did. The clipped turbo I have ran to 23psi so far and it has no sign of surge, and oddly enough the spool rpm is nearly identical. To me it is worthless to run a 20G w/ an unclipped TDO5H wheel because the surge will not let you get to the point of maxing out the turbo.

Just some observations for ya

Oh yeah... mine is clipped 15* as I thought that is what Buschur or FP clipped theirs to.

I did get the clipped turbine wheel from FP.

This clip looks insane, and I would be sort of hesitant to go all the way to 20*

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[DSMunknown]

If it was up to me, I'd pass on the clipping. I never liked the idea of clipping turbos, especially with the availability of different compressors and turbine wheels nowadays. You can pretty much get everything you want just choosing the right wheel combination; there's really no need to do something like clipping a turbine.

I agree with Derek wholeheartedly. I can't stand the idea of a clipped/clipping a turbo. What do the CT guys call this sort of thing? I believe they would refer to it as "molesting." But Derek, didn't you run with a clipped something-or-another about a year ago (or, according to your profile, you're still running with a clipped E316G)?

 

[JusMX141]

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This is DEFINETLY a 20* clip....you can see how much of the blade is actually removed from this angle, but the turbine takes on a completely new appearance when looking at it as if you were looking into the turbine housing where the exhaust exits. Look at the picture showing into the turbine housing on this eBay listing to see a 20* clip on a TD05H:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180179461307
It looks weird, doesn't it?

The turbine on the 20G that the O.P. sent me was 15*, but it's damaged beyond repair because some retard apparently ran it without oil (the previous owner who scammed the O.P.) I don't have the ability to clip turbines at my shop, nor do I trust any local speed shops to machine one of my new turbines.

If you were to clip, I wouldn't go as aggressive as a Buschur 20* clip. Find a shop that can reproduce that 15* if anything....it seems that 10* would be a waste of $75.

 

[brute]

I agree with Derek wholeheartedly. I can't stand the idea of a clipped/clipping a turbo. What do the CT guys call this sort of thing? I believe they would refer to it as "molesting." But Derek, didn't you run with a clipped something-or-another about a year ago (or, according to your profile, you're still running with a clipped E316G)?

Yes I do. It's a clipped (not sure of degree) E316g, but it was on the car when I bought it. This doesn't mean I'm a bad person But like I said, I couldn't see myself paying for clipping, I just don't like the entire idea of it.

 

[dsm-onster]

If that's the case, why aren't clipped Evo III 16g's the industry standard?

Because an evo3 16g compressor cannot out flow a td05h turbine unclipped in a 7cm^2 housing. Why add lag?

Once you have the turbo, your options are very limited. However, if you are buying one and have all the options at hand, I would advise to chose turbine wheel accordingly as opposed to clipping anything.

The options are costly. Clipping is proven.

Swapping in the td06h or td06sl would be ideal. More topend or quicker spool, respectively.

I recommend a 10-15 degree clip.

 

[fwdeclipse]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I tried to call fp today but could not get ahold of them. Maybe there not open for the holiday.

 

[dsm-onster]

Yes I do. It's a clipped (not sure of degree) E316g, but it was on the car when I bought it. This doesn't mean I'm a bad person But like I said, I couldn't see myself paying for clipping, I just don't like the entire idea of it.

No you are not bad . You prefer efficiency over cost? Seem to be pretty cool guy to me. So, why don't you like the idea of clipping? Does the benefit of a larger wheel outweight the cost of upgrading to it? Have you seen tremendously better results? I believe Tort's car showed better results. . . How far was he pushing that 20g? How different were the results?

 

[brute]

No you are not bad . You prefer efficiency over cost? Seem to be pretty cool guy to me. So, why don't you like the idea of clipping? Does the benefit of a larger wheel outweight the cost of upgrading to it? Have you seen tremendously better results? I believe Tort's car showed better results. . . How far was he pushing that 20g? How different were the results?

You just can't have your cake and eat it too. There's so many sacrifices one is forced to consider when building a car. Unfortunately, many people don't think about what they want before they start buying.

For example, you can't have a 500whp turbo that spools like stock. If there is, PM me If I was to choose a certain 20g to purchase, I would go over my goals as to what I want out of it. TD05 for fast spool and keeping relatively stock redline. Now if you want more revs and don't care too much about spool, instead of clipping it, I'd just opt for a different turbine setup (i.e. TD06 or the 'new' SL).

No doubt clipping does get the job done, my argument is it's not the best way. Like I said, I just don't like the idea of hacking a finely tuned object. Can you imagine how profoundly it affects the efficiency? Just think of a clipped compressor wheel's efficiency.

 

[dsm-onster]

Just think of a clipped compressor wheel's efficiency.

It would spool quicker though .