Timing Belt And Valves

[Andrew7DG]

Just to give you model number so all of you know what you are looking at

Mitsubishi Eclipse
1993
GS
4g63 N/A

So the Timing belt was shreaded on my car and now i have pulled the cylinder head off checking the valves and this is what i have:
(hopefully this works i haven't ever uploaded an image before)

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Now it doesn't look like the valves are bent but i know there was contact with the pistons and the valves because there is a scrach on the pistons and a scrach on the valves on the exaust side, not the intake side. I don't know what to make of that exept the exaust must open farther then the intake to do that.

So i don't know if i bent the valves or not, They look like they are sitting in there perfectly but could they still be bent? I don't want to put this back together to only find out that they are bad now. If i take it to a machine shop can they help me with this or who do i go to? Could the cylinder head be cracked and i don't know it, exept i really doubt it. What other things should i be checking for?

Another question is that there is a lot of white build up, isn't that caused by having the engine run lean? I thought these cars ran rich.

So that covers the main part of this question but i was wondering, since i am this far in to this project with pulling the head off, is there anything i can do to get a little performance out of the car now? I have heard that one could take the exaust cam from a turbo and put it in, but wouldn't i need a cam for the intake to even it out? How much would that get me for performance? If i put ajustable timing gears would that help?

So anyway any advice i could get would be helpful

Thanks!!!!!!

 

[alex]

Poor gasoline in there and make sure they dont leak. You will have to adjust the timing to make sure valves are closed, but by pouring gasoline in there, that will tell you if the valves are bent.

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

Very rare to break/shred/throw/ a timing belt and not bend valves. I've seen it done a few times. It still amazes me. It's almost like winning the lottery.

Gasoline does work, but I'd look around for a non volatile liquid to test. I've had a couple of bad experiences with gasoline.


You're going to clean it up anyway.

If all else fails, run it by your local machine shop to get their opinion. I'd do that if I did nothing else.

That way, you can be absolutely sure.

 

[93whitelaserrs]

The vavles are diffently bent, but you lucked out and didn't bent them too bad or even break any of them. So you probably didn't even break any of your valve guides hopefully. I wouldn't use gasoline to see if you bent any, I used a flashlight and put it around the valves and looked in the port of the valves and if you see light then they are bent or not seating all the way. Why is the bottom left corner of the head purple looking, It looks like to me that the head gasket was leaking?

 

[wolf20043]

Very rare to break/shred/throw/ a timing belt and not bend valves. I've seen it done a few times. It still amazes me. It's almost like winning the lottery.

Gasoline does work, but I'd look around for a non volatile liquid to test. I've had a couple of bad experiences with gasoline.


You're going to clean it up anyway.

If all else fails, run it by your local machine shop to get their opinion. I'd do that if I did nothing else.

That way, you can be absolutely sure.

Water is the best bet on this. If you leave the plugs in and put water in the "cups" it should not leak with good valves. A lot of the time, valves may not appear to be bent, but are.
Mike

 

[alex]

Doesn't have to be gasoline, just any thin type of liquid.

 

[Andrew7DG]

Thanks for your help! the gasket wasn't leaking, it is just oil left over from the dissasembly. I haven't yet put water or gas on the valves yet to see if they are leaking. I think i am going to buy a plastic tub for that before i do any of that. However because i see scraches on each of the piston and the top valves i am going to assume that they are bent. It is good that you guys told me to still check. I had someone say that "O look they are fine, none of them are bent." I didn't quite believe them though.

However i have a question now about the valve guides. How do you check to see if those are damaged or is this better answered by taking it to the machine shop?

So comes the next question that i have:
Would you recomend taking it to a machine shop and having them fix it or pulling another head off another engine?... Well accually it was a pain in the ass to take this one off when the engine was still in the car. I can't emagine taking one off in a junk yard...

So out of curiosity how much do you think this will cost to replace? I think that is a better question to ask before ^

Would it be better to buy another engine from a junk yard?

I am kind of at a loss of what to do... so any opinion would be very helpful

 

[LunarEclips]

it depends on which direction you're trying to go with your engine. You can find some new chromoly valves for around 300$ or just buy a head off a 1g and slap it on.

On the other hand, how bad are the pistons? are they scratched or dented?

Depending on your funds and how bad your pistons are (given that your valves are bad and possibly your valve guides) you can buy a full rebuild motor for around $1200-$1400.

My opinion, i would rebuild the head with new racing chomoly valves and new guides, and put in new pistons/piston rings (and if you have the money, might as well hit up some new eagle rods and all new bearings). All this installed is probably near $1600 give or take a few.

Get you head pressure checked by the machine shop and go from there....after seeing your valves, you can decide to buy a new head ($200-$400 used) or ugrade your valves and guides ($300-$400 new). You should prob ask em if your pistons can still be used since you're not sure if your pistons are even still good (your piston hit the head so your most likely looking at new pistons as well).

Good Luck and let us know how it turns out!!

 

[Andrew7DG]

Well I took a picture of the piston to show you how bad it is. It is pretty much like that for each piston. The shiny part is where it hit. The question is now is that enough to need new pistons? I know pistons are under a lot of stress when running and scratched pistions are a bad thing.

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Here is the state of my car right now. Yes that is snow. The fun of rebuilding an engine in winter with lots and lots of snow.

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I will keep updating to fill everyone in on what i decide to do.
I am still thinking if i should keep the car or not. I bought the car for 1000, stuck 500 only had it for one year and some months.
If i save some money i bet i could find a GSX or GSTto replace a GS
we will see

 

[93whitelaserrs]

What is that on the edge of the piston wall?

 

[Andrew7DG]

Sorry i am using my phone to take pictures so they may not be the best. I just went out to look at that. It was debris from the gasket. Kind of like how there is oil on the head. The piston wall is fine though.

 

[squeak104]

Needing to replace the pistons depends on each car. Honestly if it were me, I wouldn't worry about it. Below is a link to a picture of my pistons after my timing belt shredded on the dyno. They all got hit pretty hard, but it ran fine for 10,000 mi before a rod bearing spun. Good luck.

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[squeak104]

Sorry here is the link to the picture.

http://home.earthlink.net/imagelib/...tebuilderpictures/im000056.jpg&target=tlx_new

 

[BUCK]

I bet they're good - SHREDDED doesn't mean it Jumped Time!

 

[LunarEclips]

your pistons look good to me....just get your head fixed. Why sell the car if its already paid off?? Doesnt make sense to me....

 

[Andrew7DG]

Just to remind everyone that it is a N/A with cast pistons, not forged like the turbos but that means that all i have to do is get the head fixed? Just double checking to make sure because this is great news for me!!!!!!!
I thought i would have to replace the pistons because they are scrached. This is very good news that i don't!!!!!!
Won't this mess with the combustion process or anything like that though? I thought it would provide a stress point for the pistons to crack.

Ok so then what would be the best thing for the cylinder head? Find a new one or have a machine shop fix the old one? This sounds like a crazy question but can i pull one off a turbo model. I know the intake cam is slightly larger then the N/A

Any other mods people can thing of while i have it apart this far?

 

[Andrew7DG]

it depends on which direction you're trying to go with your engine. You can find some new chromoly valves for around 300$ or just buy a head off a 1g and slap it on.

On the other hand, how bad are the pistons? are they scratched or dented?

Depending on your funds and how bad your pistons are (given that your valves are bad and possibly your valve guides) you can buy a full rebuild motor for around $1200-$1400.

My opinion, i would rebuild the head with new racing chomoly valves and new guides, and put in new pistons/piston rings (and if you have the money, might as well hit up some new eagle rods and all new bearings). All this installed is probably near $1600 give or take a few.

Get you head pressure checked by the machine shop and go from there....after seeing your valves, you can decide to buy a new head ($200-$400 used) or ugrade your valves and guides ($300-$400 new). You should prob ask em if your pistons can still be used since you're not sure if your pistons are even still good (your piston hit the head so your most likely looking at new pistons as well).

Good Luck and let us know how it turns out!!

accually now that i have reread this someone did answer this question. Do you think it is worth getting racing chromoly valves in a N/A engine? I would put eagle rods in but it isn't a turbo so i don't think it is worth it...yet


Still if people have any more suggestions please feel free to share!!!

 

[BUCK]

IMO the Head & Valves will check out OK - I'd clean it up & put it back together - The BEST single thing you could do is the BSE if you like this car - but DAMN - in the freaking SNOW~??

 

[TurkF26]

i cant believe you unbolted the whole intake manifold and left it in the car like that. The easiest way to take it off is leave the intake manifold and exhaust manifold and just lift the head off by grabbing the intake and exhaust manifold. Now i see why you had a heck of a time taking it off.

If you are gonna keep the car, id have a machine shop check the head or if you have the money, the cheapest thing to do would get a stock rebuild on the head. Yes its not performance oriented but if you cant afford anything else (valves, etc...) stock rebuild is usually not that much.

Or if you think the motor is toast or you dont want to reuse it, either sell the car as is and get a GSX or GST, or with some work convert that to a turbo FWD.

also better go get a 100 pack of razor blades and lacquer thinner to clean that headgasket off that block..

 

[BUCK]

i cant believe you unbolted the whole intake manifold and left it in the car like that. The easiest way to take it off is leave the intake manifold and exhaust manifold and just lift the head off by grabbing the intake and exhaust manifold. Now i see why you had a heck of a time taking it off.

& IN THE FREAKING SNOW !! Andrew7DG is TRULY a man among men!

 

[Littlebeeper]

just get the head done at a shop and slap her back together. no sense in buying a used one if its going be a gamble on its condition. As for the pistons, they are good. Mine were hit hard enough that i had to tap the valve relief with a small hammer as they were raised some when the valves hit them, still running great. If you do get a used head a turbo head will work, just use your cams as turbo cams are different(allow more flow so you may get away with it if your Computer compensates for the increased flow), and you would have to cover the Turbo oil line by the thermostate neck. Oh, and 1 last thing the Turbo pistons are not forged, they are cast also....at least the stock ones are