Timing Belt Jumped? Valves Bent?

[4gfun]

This morning I took my car up 95. I was decided to drive it hard and play with my SAFC for the first time ever.

I looked down and noticed no oil pressure on my instrument cluster (stock gauge).

Murphy's law kicked in. Bumper to Bumper traffic started and I was not in a position to stop the car since there are no shoulders on this part of 95.

The oil pressure remained at the first line which was right above the letter "L".

Even when I revved the engine, the oil pressure doesn't go up.

As time went on, the engine would stall when I moved forward and would have to be restarted. As I mentioned before, engine sounds like crap. Hard to explain over the internet.

Weird thing is that no oil pressure idiot light ever came on and the car has enough oil. (I later noticed that the wire fell off of the oil pressure sending unit so this is probably a moot point).

 

[1gb719]

By sounds like crap, what do you mean?

Chances are, the wire for the pressure guage came off. You have 2 wires on the filter housing: one for the pressure guage, and one for the idiot light. Chances are, if the guage was reading low, but the idiot light wasnt/isnt on, that could be your issue.

If possible, perform an oil pressure test. You should have 10-15psi at idle, and near 85 at 3k (if im remembering correctly...).

Hope that helps!

 

[phillabaum03]

I think you might have more problems then just a wire off. In the case that its stalling and doesnt sound good.. I would keep away from driving it. Does it sound like a knocking or ticking noise? Its a long shot but it could be a rod bearing. Just a thought..

 

[4gfun]

Alright, I want my talon back.

I wanted to let you know what the sound was like but when I went to start it, it will no longer start.

Just as a side note, I refuse to bring the car to anyone to look at it. I have had bad experiences with this DSM and my last one doing that.

What should I do next? A compression test?

This is not my Daily Driver so I can fix this over the months whether it be that I need to eventually bring it to someone or fix it myself.

I'd really rather DIY in this case even if it takes YEARS, just too many bad experiences.

Thanks!

FYI....removed the timing cover to make sure the timing belt didn't fly off. It was there.

I can't figure out how to remove the lower cover to make sure that a balance shaft belt didn't fly off.

(Please let me know if I am headed in the wrong direction).

P.S. It is usually my luck that two things die at the same time on my vehicle which manifests itself as something alot worse

 

[phillabaum03]

Id drain the oil and check for metal shavings.. Its a quick cheap things to check first.

 

[4gfun]

Before your post, I checked compression which was 0 in all cylinders right now.

Any thoughts about that? Engine also sounds like it is trying to turn over too fast than if I was normally performing a compression test if that makes sense?

Thanks

 

[phillabaum03]

Your timing belt must of slipped. Take the head off and see if any rockers are laying in there, Maybe your oil pump locked up.. Let us know

 

[4gfun]

Your timing belt must of slipped. Take the head off and see if any rockers are laying in there, Maybe your oil pump locked up.. Let us know

Any links on how to do this? Do I need the FSM? I have never pulled the head on a car, but have done plenty of other things like swapping out a clutch etc.

I have danced around engine internals for years because I am scared.

This time around I am willing to tackle it, but I want to make sure that pulling the head would be the right move.

Would a slipped timing belt cause low oil pressure and no compression?

I just want to make sure that I would be doing the right thing by pulling the head.

I have nothing to lose I'd guess since it's not a DD and the car is not driveable....but want to know more and be sure.

I am not trying to rebut what you are saying, but I need more information.

Thank you for your time.

 

[phillabaum03]

I didnt mean take the head of just yet. I was getting ahead of myself. I ment take the valve cover off..

 

[4gfun]

I didnt mean take the head of just yet. I was getting ahead of myself. I ment take the valve cover off..

Lol, ok. Thanks for your time.

Valve cover is off...what on earth am I looking for in there? This has always been the million dollar question for me.

All I see are a bunch of parts and oil.

Do I need to take a picture and post it?

I don't see anything out of place btw, but I am super dumb when it comes to this.

Should I just take the photo and post it, or clean it up and then take a photo?

If I should clean it up, then how clean should it be?

FYI, the valve cover is already off.

Thanks a million!

 

[phillabaum03]

Ha you need to relax just snap a few pictures and post them.. Also if you could take a picture of the cam gears so u can see the bolts that hold it on and the dowel pins that hold them in place.

 

[4gfun]

Ha you need to relax just snap a few pictures and post them.. Also if you could take a picture of the cam gears so u can see the bolts that hold it on and the dowel pins that hold them in place.

....ok here goes...I'll be snapping as many as I can

 

[4gfun]

Trying to attach more but its taking forever...

 

[4gfun]

.....

 

[4gfun]

........

 

[BootlegGreg]

Looks pretty in order. Put a short extension on a 1/2" ratchet and try to crank it clockwise by hand and see if you can do it. Make sure the trans is in neutral too.

 

[4gfun]

.......

 

[1gb719]

Definately sounds like the timing jumped. When the timing jumps, it causes the valves to hit the pistons, bending them. Then the cylinder is unable to seal, therefore no compression!

From the looks of the pictures, you DO have some bent valves. From what UI can see, it looks like cyl1 (first cylinder, next to cam gears) has a couple bent valves, intake side for sure. Grabbing the rockers (peice right under camshaft) and being able to move them would be a good indication of a bent valve(with popinty part of camshaft lobe away from rocker). (check out the space between the rocker and the camshaft, intake side, cyl 1&2)

Either way man, hate to say it but the heads prob gonna need to come off and be rebuilt. 90% of the time when the timing belt skips a tooth or two, or breaks, AT LEAST 8 valves will be bent.

 

[1gb719]

Do your timing marks line up as they're supposed to?

 

[knochgoon24]

Look at the timing marks. You could have checked those before even removing the valve cover.

 

[4gfun]

Do your timing marks line up as they're supposed to?

How do I determine this? This is new for me. Is there an easy way to tell?

Thanks

Also, which is it guys...do things look intact, or are the valves bent?

If just a few valves are bent, then why no compression in any cylinder?

Just curious...

 

[4gfun]

Look at the timing marks. You could have checked those before even removing the valve cover.

I am sure I could have, but I am a novice I have done ignition timing a million times, but haven't ever checked timing marks for cams.

 

[knochgoon24]

Here's where the marks are.

 

[4gfun]

Here's where the marks are.

Thanks for this!

By the way, I pulled upwards on all of the rockers as you described and they all want to fall off. (I am guessing that you are referring to the cam that is closest to the firewall as the intake side??

So they aren't supposed to do that?

I am checking the timing marks right now thanks!

 

[1gb719]

NVM:knochgoon beat me to the punch!

nice diagram!