Timing being pulled - log

[linksys42]

Hey guys, I just installed my SAFC II and I have been having a problem with my timing being pulled for a bit. This was happening before I installed the SAFCII also, the problem is that my timing right at 4000 rpm's starts to stop advancing and flat lines right around 4000 rpm's then gets pulled 1 degree at 4300 then flat lines again (doesn't advance) till right around 4800 rpm's. I richened the mixture up at 4000 by +5% and at 4600 by +6% to no avail (timing still being pulled) also the conditions were like 55 degrees last night. All I have installed is intake/1g BOV, 2.5" exhaust with cat, 190L pump rewired, boost set at 12psi, and the T25. So today I was going to go put in some 103 octane in so I can see if I can get rid of the timing not advancing/retarding. Do you think this is a good idea? Or should I not run the 103? All I have ever put in is 93 octane. Below is a post of one of my pulls in third gear. Thanks in advance!


RPM,Timing,O2 1 Bank 1,O2 Trim 1 Bank 1
3090.0,8.0,0.94,0.0
3148.0,7.0,0.94,0.0
3211.0,8.0,0.94,0.0
3410.0,8.0,0.94,0.0
3477.0,9.0,0.94,0.0
3531.0,9.0,0.94,0.0
3609.0,9.0,0.94,0.0
3750.0,10.0,0.94,0.0
3895.0,10.0,0.94,0.0
3984.0,11.0,0.96,0.0
4055.0,11.0,0.96,0.0
4285.0,11.0,0.96,0.0
4348.0,10.0,0.96,0.0
4402.0,10.0,0.96,0.0
4457.0,10.0,0.96,0.0
4512.0,10.0,0.96,0.0
4570.0,10.0,0.96,0.0
4617.0,10.0,0.96,0.0
4676.0,10.0,0.96,0.0
4738.0,10.0,0.96,0.0
4816.0,11.0,0.96,0.0
4867.0,11.0,0.96,0.0
4922.0,12.0,0.96,0.0
4973.0,12.0,0.96,0.0
5031.0,12.0,0.94,0.0
5082.0,12.0,0.94,0.0
5156.0,13.0,0.94,0.0
5199.0,14.0,0.94,0.0
5320.0,14.0,0.94,0.0
5363.0,14.0,0.94,0.0
5422.0,14.0,0.94,0.0
5484.0,15.0,0.94,0.0
5590.0,15.0,0.94,0.0
5664.0,16.0,0.94,0.0
5695.0,17.0,0.94,0.0
5746.0,17.0,0.94,0.0
5801.0,17.0,0.94,0.0
5855.0,17.0,0.94,0.0
5863.0,17.0,0.94,0.0
5934.0,18.0,0.94,0.0
5973.0,18.0,0.94,0.0
6008.0,18.0,0.94,0.0
6117.0,18.0,0.94,0.0
6219.0,20.0,0.94,0.0
6250.0,20.0,0.94,0.0
6285.0,21.0,0.94,0.0
6324.0,21.0,0.94,0.0
6371.0,21.0,0.94,0.0
6395.0,21.0,0.94,0.0
6422.0,21.0,0.94,0.0
6465.0,21.0,0.94,0.0

 

[Eastwood95]

looks like a little knock from being too rich, drop the %'s a few in that rpm range and see what happens.....If you notice the rpm range you are having issues in is basically the power curve for when the T-25 kicks in....and out

Don't run 103 unless you're racing, or at the track (unless you want an idea for a baseline tune for when you ARE at the track........You want to tune for daily driving conditions.

It also looks like you have some room to up the boost...

 

[linksys42]

looks like a little knock from being too rich, drop the %'s a few in that rpm range and see what happens.....If you notice the rpm range you are having issues in is basically the power curve for when the T-25 kicks in....and out

Don't run 103 unless you're racing, or at the track (unless you want an idea for a baseline tune for when you ARE at the track........You want to tune for daily driving conditions.

It also looks like you have some room to up the boost...

Thanks I will try dropping the % a few in that range. Was wondering were the power curve is at on the t25 (3000-5000) then anything after that it just falls on its face? Can't wait to bolt on my big16G next weekend get rid of this tiny turbo!!! I was thinking of running the 103 to see if I could get rid of the knock, because the weird thing is that the timing was being pulled the same way when it was totally stock. Thanks again for the help. I really appreciate it.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Looks perfectly fine to me. Timing steadily rises to 21 up top which is lots.

You can't get anal with a logger/s-afc combo or you will be going crazy trying to "tune" it everyday.

 

[spyderturbo007]

I agree with Tyler, everything looks fine. You have a 1 degree pull that starts at 4348, but that could be from your coolant temp going over 206 degrees or the IAT jumping over 84 degrees. Personally, I ran the SAFC at 0 across the board when I was running the stock 450's.

 

[linksys42]

Personally, I ran the SAFC at 0 across the board when I was running the stock 450's.

Thanks guys for the help. I just saw the timing being pulled 1 degree and flat lining from 4300 up to 4700 rpms and wanted to take care of it/correct it. I thought you were supposed to tune for 0 timing pull on the 2g? So you guys think this is nothing to worry about and that i should just set them to 0 all the way across? Thanks

 

[Eastwood95]

The log isn't bad at all, I could just tell that you want to try and get it "perfect"....
That's why I suggested that. Each log is going to be a little different, there's a few variables that will change the timing/o2 on each run....

Your timing was only pulled slightly for those 500rpm, nothing much to worry about at that low of boost with a rewired 190 on the T-25, you're safe...

Put the settings back to 0, and do another log and see what you come up with....

 

[spyderturbo007]

Thanks guys for the help. I just saw the timing being pulled 1 degree and flat lining from 4300 up to 4700 rpms and wanted to take care of it/correct it. I thought you were supposed to tune for 0 timing pull on the 2g? So you guys think this is nothing to worry about and that i should just set them to 0 all the way across? Thanks

You can also log coolant temp and IAT during the pull and try and pin down exactly why the timing is being pulled. It could be knock, but it's most likely due to the above reasons or you could have been dumped into a higher airflow map by the ECU at that point. As airflow increases the ECU limits the timing more, so by jumping into a higher airflow map, you may see a drop in timing.

I would zero out the SAFC and make another pull. If anything, you are going to want to remove a percent or two on the SAFC at WOT to compensate for the factory AFR target of 9.5:1.

I ran my SAFC at zero for about 8 months before I upgraded the turbo, injectors and FP. You might be able to get a couple extra HP out of leaning out the factory maps, but it isn't really worth the time. The ECU is actually pretty good at what it does.

 

[linksys42]

Thanks guys for all the info and help. i will zero them all out, and play around with leaning it out a little. I will log the IAT and coolant temp to see if that's what's causing it. So at what coolant temp and IAT does the ECU start to pull back timing?

 

[spyderturbo007]

So at what coolant temp and IAT does the ECU start to pull back timing?

See my post above.

 

[linksys42]

I agree with Tyler, everything looks fine. You have a 1 degree pull that starts at 4348, but that could be from your coolant temp going over 206 degrees or the IAT jumping over 84 degrees. Personally, I ran the SAFC at 0 across the board when I was running the stock 450's.

Ok so I did a log and my coolant temps are fine but my IAT is over 84 degrees at all times! Even when driving down the interstate at partial throttle with no load really on the engine. Is the IAT sensor housed in the MAF sensor or is it mounted on the intake manifold? My next question is how am I going to bring down the temp? I am running an open element K&N and I guess that the hot engine compartment air is being pulled in, but how can I drop the intake air temp without putting the stock air box back on and hindering air flow? Do the dividers that people build to box off and separate the air filter from the engine compartment work? Thanks

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

You could build those dividers that you talked about, or even get a hood with some vents in it, or cut vents into your hood. Then there are heat shields and wraps for the headers and stuff like that. You can do anything that accomplishes one of the following (or both):
a.) Stop/slow down heat from exhaust/engine heating up the engine bay
b.) Get "fresh cool" air into the engine bay

Bill

 

[spyderturbo007]

The IAT is measured before the turbo, intercooler and all that other stuff.

I wouldn't worry about an IAT over 84 degrees, because truthfully, I have never seen mine below 84 degrees unless the car is still cold.

 

[linksys42]

The IAT is measured before the turbo, intercooler and all that other stuff. .

so the sensor that monitors the IAT's is part/housed in the maf sensor housing?

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Just for reference, I had my car dyno tuned by Garry Marsh with 450s, stock smic, and T28 with up to -5% adjustment on 15 psi. After that the injectors were maxed and ic heatsoaked.