tien pillow ball mounts

[chasedardis]

im looking into the koni yellow and grund control suspension setup. I am wondering iff getting tien pilow ball mounts will help with the response of steerimg. I know that they do not adjust camber. Does anyone know if they will fit on this setup iether.

 

[jtmcinder]

Pillowballs don't have much effect on turn-in since their main advantage is reducing stiction. I'm also 99% sure that the shaft on a Koni is different from that on a Tein, so you'd have to replace the bearing to get this to work. However, given how long it is taking the new vendor to come out with pillowballs for 2Gs, I like the way that you're thinking. Keep going. I'll bet if you searched around, you could find the shaft diameters for both Konis and Teins. Replacing the bearing (if necessary) wouldn't be too difficult.

 

[boostwut]

why not just spend the money on full coil-overs like D2 or K-sport they have proven to be good bang for the money. and if you want to stiffen up ride swaybars would do that a lot more and better than a pillow mount change.

 

[LandoAWD]

why not just spend the money on full coil-overs like D2 or K-sport they have proven to be good bang for the money.

He's asking about one of the best homebrew coilover setups you can put together, not Chinese prefabs.

 

[jtmcinder]

why not just spend the money on full coil-overs like D2 or K-sport they have proven to be good bang for the money. and if you want to stiffen up ride swaybars would do that a lot more and better than a pillow mount change.

It took a long time to decide between clicking Quote or add/delete rep points. Lucky day.

As alluded to above, those coilovers you mentioned have been proven to be the opposite of worth the money.

 

[LandoAWD]

Don't get me wrong, if I wanted cheap adjustability for a car that never went to the track, I'd consider them. I woudn't buy them for performance applications.

 

[jtmcinder]

That's why I'm a Wiseman and you're just a Moderator. I'd wouldn't buy them for any reason (although, as Leon would point out: they are pretty colors).

More seriously, I did some poking around and it looks like the Tein shafts are slightly different (2mm) from the Koni shafts, so replacing the bearing would be required. However, as long as it isn't total crud and sends the shaft through the hood, a pillowball is a pillowball, so maybe the one from Taiwan (e.g., D2, K-Sport, etc) would have the right-size bearing off the shelf.

 

[LandoAWD]

"Just"?? "JUST"?????

Tell me again how Dennis Grant was right...

 

[snowborder714]

Koni shaft - 12mm
Tein shaft - 12.5mm

 

[jtmcinder]

"Just"?? "JUST"?????

Tell me again how Dennis Grant was right...

Ow. Touché, big time.

(For those trying to keep score at home: Dennis used 2.25" springs on Koni sleeves, which is better than 2.5" springs on GC sleeves, and was way ahead of me on the positives of pillowballs. The only places where I can claim anything over Dennis is that I never said silly things like "you can't copy this set-up or I'll sue you" and I actually raced the sleeved-Koni set-up, although, as Dennis can never help but point out: I never did well at a national-level SCCA event, regardless of set-up.)

All-in-all, I'm pathetic.

 

[jtmcinder]

Koni shaft - 12mm
Tein shaft - 12.5mm

You rock! I knew the Konis were 12mm, but could only find 10mm for the Teins, but for a BMW, so I wasn't sure.

Now we need to search around and see if either D2s, K-Sports, Megans, or some other shock for which we know pillowballs exist are 12mm.

 

[LandoAWD]

The reason you're such a good wiseman is evident. You responded to my trolling with pertinent, historical data. All hail!

 

[snowborder714]

K-Sport - 12.3mm
Megan Racing - ranges from 19-20mm
D2 - *waiting on response to e-mail*

 

[jtmcinder]

The only thing that occurs to me (a little late) is that the best pillowballs (e.g., RRE) use two stand-offs, one above and one below, the actual bearing. These are key to even distribution of force and avoiding any binding. You trim the lower stand-off to get your spring hat as close to the bottom of the plate as possible for maximum suspension travel.

My point here is that, if any of these OTS options use the same approach (which is questionable, I know), then exactly matching the hole in the bearing isn't the issue. You just get any pillowball with a large enough hole and have a shop make you tubular stand-offs to match the Konis on the inside and the bearing for a little distance on the outside.

Did that make sense or do I need to break out my Paint skills?

 

[TSi Kid]

That's why I'm a Wiseman and you're just a Moderator. I'd wouldn't buy them for any reason (although, as Leon would point out: they are pretty colors).

I 'd

 

[greengoblin]

The only thing that occurs to me (a little late) is that the best pillowballs (e.g., RRE) use two stand-offs, one above and one below, the actual bearing. These are key to even distribution of force and avoiding any binding. You trim the lower stand-off to get your spring hat as close to the bottom of the plate as possible for maximum suspension travel.

My point here is that, if any of these OTS options use the same approach (which is questionable, I know), then exactly matching the hole in the bearing isn't the issue. You just get any pillowball with a large enough hole and have a shop make you tubular stand-offs to match the Konis on the inside and the bearing for a little distance on the outside.

Did that make sense or do I need to break out my Paint skills?

This^^

You are really only going to have to build new stand offs as I would venture to say they all use around the same size bearing.

Another thing to note is the location of the bearing. You want it to be above the above the actual strut tower(top of the plate) so you can have as much shock travel as possible.

I believe the tein units place the bearing below the plate (under the tower) and that is going to cost you suspension travel.

kevin

Link to the tein units. for our car. Or atleast ? I think they are.

http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/...ase&utm_campaign=googlebase&utm_content=28888


This is a BIG deal on the front of our cars.

 

[jtmcinder]

Wait. Kevin, you sell pillowballs for 2Gs and have the standoffs for Koni Sports ready to go? If so, then that is totally awesome. Problem solved!

ps. I know that there are rules about what you can say in a technical thread, but please at least tell us whether you have the pillowball issue solved for Koni Sports and I'll take any blame, because I completely agree that this is a huge issue, at least in the front

 

[greengoblin]

I wish I could make them but I don't own a lathe.

Jay racing did the group by for the plates last time. I'm sure he could have a set made without much trouble. There is also Adam(black_gst) who has access to a lathe I believe.

Kevin

 

[snowborder714]

If you want to buy them from a shop, this place sells them. I'm pretty sure I know where the design came from, too. I think these are just left overs from a run he made a while ago (he doesn't always have them in stock).
https://www.rtmracing.com/xcart/product.php?productid=17204&cat=855&page=1

But Jay at Jay Racing has the plans, knows what's needed for a complete setup, and should have no problem making them.

 

[jtmcinder]

Given that RRE hasn't had any in stock forever, it seems, this is really good information to have. Someone should probably take all these posts and make a new thread with the options for each part of a home-made coilover all laid out with URLs. I'd be happy to help.

 

[chasedardis]

So then if koni and gc aren't worth it what is?I want a track suspension money is not an issue. Moderators and wisemen please help.

 

[Dyesuperman]

Given that RRE hasn't had any in stock forever, it seems, this is really good information to have. Someone should probably take all these posts and make a new thread with the options for each part of a home-made coilover all laid out with URLs. I'd be happy to help.

Yes please I have recently been considering piecing together the homemade kit to see what its all about and a list of everything needed with current sources would be great. It seems most of the old threads about the homemade kits reference vendors/websites that no longer have the product

 

[LandoAWD]

Do it. A suspension parts reference article for those of us that may have improper uppers on their Koni/GCs would be appreciated.

 

[snowborder714]

So then if koni and gc aren't worth it what is?I want a track suspension money is not an issue. Moderators and wisemen please help.

The Koni/GC combo is worth it, especially for the price.

If money isn't an issue, KW Variant 3 coilovers, Hypercoil springs, and DG upper hats/standoffs. A little designing will have to be done for a spring upper hat, I believe, as well as a bit of a change in the standoffs, but nothing terrible. This'll run you ~$3k.

If that cost is an issue, swap the KW Variant 3's out for Konis. This will run you under $2k.


You can also go bigger name in the coilovers, but then you're looking at $6k+ most likely.






I wish I was in a position to pick up a lathe.

 

[LandoAWD]

So then if koni and gc aren't worth it what is?

What? I think you missed something, here...