Tein Flex pillow ball mounts

[Omega]

I have the SS system, but want to use the straight springs like the Flex uses. Where can I get JUST the pillow ball mounts from the Flex system?

 

[boostedinaz]

I have the SS system, but want to use the straight springs like the Flex uses. Where can I get JUST the pillow ball mounts from the Flex system?

have you tried ordering them from Tein??

 

[Omega]

I have emailed them, but have not had a response for a few weeks.

 

[DG-FNR]

The ATI PE Upper Mounts should fit with some minor tweaks.

DG

 

[jtmcinder]

And, of course, it goes without saying, therefore, that the upper mounts that are available right now from RRE will also fit with the same minor tweaking.

- Jtoby

 

[Omega]

The ATI PE Upper Mounts should fit with some minor tweaks.

DG

I already asked you about that... define a "tweak"

And, of course, it goes without saying, therefore, that the upper mounts that are available right now from RRE will also fit with the same minor tweaking.

- Jtoby

Are these the sold but not shown hats that I keep hearing about?

Just out of CURIOUSITY, would they happen to be coaxial? The description makes them sound to be.

 

[Spoolin98]

I have noticed that when it comes down to vendors replying to e-mails it rarely happens. Trying calling any number you can find and go from there.

 

[Spoolin98]

Wow, you must not have tried looking for this at all. It took me 5 seconds to find this.
http://www.optionimports.com/tein.html
Even Tein's website shows they sell them.

 

[jtmcinder]

Just out of CURIOUSITY, would they happen to be coaxial? The description makes them sound to be.

John M. does not believe that coaxial hats are needed on 2Gs running sensible springrates, so the default is that they do not come with hats. However, if you say that you want them anyway, he'll add them, but be ready for a ton of verbal abuse for not listening to him while he does it. You might be better off getting hats elsewhere and adding them on your own.

As to the tweaking involved: it's mostly a question of the diameter of shock's shaft. As long as the shaft isn't larger than the inside bore of of the spherical bearing, the correct spacers can be made. If the person making your parts doesn't have a shock of your type on hand, they can't really give you a straight answer. Because the guys at RRE are not exactly fans of TEIN, you would probably have to send them a shock for them to make the spacers. The same could very well be true of ATI. If nothing else, Dennis is way too smart to suggest shocks with lousy rebound to compression ratios that also adjust both of these at the same time.

- Jtoby

 

[Omega]

Wow, you must not have tried looking for this at all. It took me 5 seconds to find this.
http://www.optionimports.com/tein.html
Even Tein's website shows they sell them.

I am looking for the Flex specific mounts. I bet those mounts are for the SS... which I already have.

 

[Omega]

John M. does not believe that coaxial hats are needed on 2Gs running sensible springrates, so the default is that they do not come with hats. However, if you say that you want them anyway, he'll add them, but be ready for a ton of verbal abuse for not listening to him while he does it. You might be better off getting hats elsewhere and adding them on your own.

As to the tweaking involved: it's mostly a question of the diameter of shock's shaft. As long as the shaft isn't larger than the inside bore of of the spherical bearing, the correct spacers can be made. If the person making your parts doesn't have a shock of your type on hand, they can't really give you a straight answer. Because the guys at RRE are not exactly fans of TEIN, you would probably have to send them a shock for them to make the spacers. The same could very well be true of ATI. If nothing else, Dennis is way too smart to suggest shocks with lousy rebound to compression ratios that also adjust both of these at the same time.

- Jtoby

The only difference I could come up with was the shaft also.. I just wanted to make sure. Making spacers won't be too big of a deal. I have another project in the pipeline and the hardest part so far is finding materials at a cost that I can live with.

I get the feeling that the Teins are not what they are cracked up to be.

 

[Poloturbo]

John M. does not believe that coaxial hats are needed on 2Gs running sensible springrates, so the default is that they do not come with hats. However, if you say that you want them anyway, he'll add them, but be ready for a ton of verbal abuse for not listening to him while he does it. You might be better off getting hats elsewhere and adding them on your own.

As to the tweaking involved: it's mostly a question of the diameter of shock's shaft. As long as the shaft isn't larger than the inside bore of of the spherical bearing, the correct spacers can be made. If the person making your parts doesn't have a shock of your type on hand, they can't really give you a straight answer. Because the guys at RRE are not exactly fans of TEIN, you would probably have to send them a shock for them to make the spacers. The same could very well be true of ATI. If nothing else, Dennis is way too smart to suggest shocks with lousy rebound to compression ratios that also adjust both of these at the same time.

- Jtoby

Why does John M. believe that the hats are not needed if almost all his suspension setup with the Jic's have them? I know they got a lot more travel than the coil-over sleeve ones but could you tell me more? Are you running those upper plates only or you are thinking of upper hats with them?

 

[DG-FNR]

I already asked you about that...

And then you started a new thread instead of waiting for a reply....

define a "tweak"

Depending on the diameter of the shock rod and the height of the "stop" on the rod against which the hardware cinches up against, you might need to:

- drill out the spacer ID
- drill out the spring hat diameter
- put washers under spacers
- cut down the thickness of a spacer

The shock rod doesn't ride in the bore of the bearing. Instead, there's a pair of 4140 standoffs that step the bearing bore down to the shock rod diameter. They also have a "mushroom" head on them, the thickness of which determines where on the shock rod the motion centre of the bearing is located.

The spring hat rests on a stop on the rod. Then there's the lower spacer, the bearing, and the upper spacer. Make the lower spacer thinner, and the bearing moves "down" on the shock rod. Make it thicker, and the bearing moves "up" on the shock rod.

Make the lower spacer too thin, and the coax hat will crash on the mount when the suspension pivots and/or the top of the shock rod will hit the hood. Make it too thick, and you give up travel unecessarily.

Setting this thickness is what I'm doing for our Koni spacers on Monday. Once I've done that, there's some ISO-9000 paperwork to do and then the mounts are ready for production.

And as far as justification... this picture says a thousand words:

http://www.accuratetechnologies.com/performance/Portals/2/why_coax.jpg

DG

 

[jtmcinder]

And as far as justification... this picture says a thousand words:

http://www.accuratetechnologies.com/performance/Portals/2/why_coax.jpg

DG

While that picture does a good job of explaining the issue in general, about 950 of those 1000 words are highly misleading. At no point in the bump travel crossed with steering angle function does that angle between the shock's shaft and the mounting plate come anywhere near the angle that is shown.

This, incidentally, is why some people think that the plates are overkill for reasonable springrates. Add to that the negatives of having the weight of the car carried by the bearing and you get to the conclusion that maybe coaxial hats are not the way to go. At least not on a car that ever sees a public street.

- Jtoby

 

[Omega]

And then you started a new thread instead of waiting for a reply....

DG

Not trying to ruffle feathers, but my question in your post specificly asked if your mounts would work with a tein shock.

This thread originally started out asking if I could use the Flex mounts with my SS kit, because I would like to use a non tapered spring.

Two completely different questions on a very similar subject.

I do thank you for the detailed explanation on the tweaks though. If you no longer have the specs that jim97gst sent you; I'll send them over to you.

 

[DG-FNR]

At no point in the bump travel crossed with steering angle function does that angle between the shock's shaft and the mounting plate come anywhere near the angle that is shown.

There's a lot amount of angularity travel with steering angle on a DSM - enough that if you have the GC style flat plate, you can hear the spring groan as it bends as you turn the wheel back and forth.

And even a little bit of misalignment is a Very Bad Thing. There's a reason why good spring testers go to enormous lengths to compress springs EXACTLY square.

As for the strength of the bearing, the bearing is much stronger than it needs to be. We use the top-quality alloy-race "motorsports" bearing instead of the cheap mild-steel race "commercial" bearing. One bearing is quite capable of handling the load of the entire car, should it ever be called upon to do so (and in which case you've got bigger problems than the strength of the bearing)

I've used the same bearing in my personal race car, including a year of daily 20-mile each way commuting on Detroit roads, and the bearings are fine. Not even any slop. Ask Charles about how hard I run that car through the "ditch" at Peru if you want to talk about strength.

DG

 

[jtmcinder]

There's a lot amount of angularity travel with steering angle on a DSM - enough that if you have the GC style flat plate, you can hear the spring groan as it bends as you turn the wheel back and forth.

And even a little bit of misalignment is a Very Bad Thing. There's a reason why good spring testers go to enormous lengths to compress springs EXACTLY square.

A simple "you're right, Toby, that picture does show an angle that will never actually happen on the car" would have been a better answer.

- Jtoby