Thinking Of Getting Rid of My Wideband

[kylush]

Ok so heres the deal, I got a 90 Talon Tsi, AWD. It's having terrible fuel cut problems. I was driving and didn't launch my car or something, just trying to get by the stock Accord next to me, they took off, and I floored it, it fuel cut at like 4k or less car fell on its face, then of course i ground going into 2nd, and pretty much got owned by the time I had to merge. So yeah......... ###

It's been fuel cutting ever since i got it at like 5.5-6k and full boost but now with the cold weather its getting worse and worse so I'm really needing to get a logger, wideband, and some tuning device in my car.

I have the AEM UEGO sitting in my closet right now, thing is I have a 90 and was did some searching and it seems that it's kind of a pita to log values vs rpm and load with the uego and be able to refference them to do any tuning. So I was wondering if it would be worth gettin rid of my uego (will most likely take a hit on the price even though its brand new), and buying like an innovate LM-1 or LM-2 which comes with the logworks logging software.

Also I was wondering if I should get dsmlink or like a pocketlogger and an afc. I'm thinkin dsmlink since in the long run it can do more and can control timing too.

I don't really know what to look for in regards to fuel cut other than fuel injector duty cycle and boost. I'm not sure if either of these can log duty cycles or just pw and fuel trims.

Oh and just for the record I have done a boost leak check, have no leaks, and tightened and checked everything over.

Need to fix this, it's not fun only bein able to use like 60% or less of the rpm band before the car falls on its face and gets owned by a stock honda.

 

[Detective Coating]

What are your mods?

Hell, I'll always so go with DSMLink. It's easy to log your AEM with it, I don't have a problem with it at all. Save your money for DSMlink instead of paying $400 for a differnt one.

 

[1992awdlaser]

In addition to what 19TSI95AWD said, dsmlink can display idc.

 

[Ravenous]

Tuning in general is kind of a pain. While I think DSMlink is great, there are other options such as Ostrich/Tunerpro for tuning and mmcd/TMO for logging. Also if you are patient Hakcenter(a member here) should have a tuning and logging suite for ds-map within the next few weeks. These options to require an eprom ecu though. No matter what you will need a logger that reads the data from the ecu. The logworks software will only log what it's sensor inputs allow it to log. So you can't log fuel trims, knock, coolant temp, so on so forth, so you will have to bounce between windows and software to get a good tune or buy add-on modules and sensors/gauges.

 

[IceMinion]

www.ds-map.net

Full standalone system with the stock ecu (EPROM)

Advantages: great fuel economy and full readout, tuning, and all the other things about having a MAP sensor (boost leaks only slow you down, doesn't mess up how the car runs)
it requires a wideband and a map sensor

 

[IceMinion]

You beat me by < 1Min

 

[Detective Coating]

^ All of that stuff is simplified with DSMLink and you will spend the same money on all of that compared to DSMLink. I looked into Ostrich and know a few people that use it but after running DSMLink, those are pretty much junk to me. Even though they are decent but money to quality and ease of product along with technical support, DSMLink wins by far.

 

[tkelly27]

You can make a logger cable and run the TMO or MMCD for free. What boost are you running? You shouldn't be cutting out unless it's more than 4 or 5psi over stock. If you are around stock boost you probably have a bad leak. You'll want the wide band no matter what you use to tune.

If you want to put some work in, I'd advise DSMap or the tunerpro editing of stock binaries. Don't get me wrong Link is a great product, so are the rest of the things ECMtuning makes. I like the hands on stuff much better though. The current version of link is oversimplified in my opinion, V3 is what link should have been all along. I'm running MAP right now and it's fantastic, I was running modified binaries and that was also great. The other nice thing is that the ostrich isn't limited to DSM's. I use it to tune my van and my friends car's too, then I just burn them a chip when we're happy with where it's at without breaking any copyright laws.

Different strokes for different folks, just know there are options other than link that can do things that it can't (yet? ever? I don't know).

 

[Ravenous]

You do get excellent support with DSMLink and I am not going to go against the grain and say it would be a bad decision, but it does cost nearly twice what my ds-map setup cost.

Tunerpro/ostrich-$185 plus homemade logger cable
Ds-map-$285
Ostrich-$185
Map/AIT sensor-$100
DSMLink-$515

Also with DS-map you get speed density which will be available in V3 of link but you will still need MAP/AIT sensors so that makes link $615. Is the customer support worth another $200-$300? To some it will be and to others it won't be, that is up to the individual. I wouldn't come close to saying that either option is junk.

 

[Detective Coating]

^ I just meant junk compared to link because I think link is absolutely amazing and V3 will go beyond all standards. You can have speed density with V2 also. You can just go with a GM-MAF and they're new cable to eliminate all that other junk.

 

[Ravenous]

You beat me by < 1Min

Great minds think alike.

 

[kylush]

What are your mods?

Hell, I'll always so go with DSMLink. It's easy to log your AEM with it, I don't have a problem with it at all. Save your money for DSMlink instead of paying $400 for a differnt one.

As far as I've read though it is easy with a 2G. My car is a 1g so doesn't have too many extra inputs on the ecu like a rear O2 sensor and stuff too hook the output from the wideband to. Unless theres an input for like EGRT cause mine has all the emissions stuff removed so maybe that would work.

Once again, car has no boost leaks, i've pressurised the whole system at the inlet, checked, fixed all of them and checked again and again and no leaks at all but it still does it.

As far as mods, I have all "free mods", so all emisssions stuff removed, hacked maf, hacked aircan, bcs restrictor removed, ect. and then a 3 inch turboback exhaust mandrel bent, no cat just a muffler.

Other than that the car is completely stock.

Boost level I can't say for sure cause I only have the stock gauge but according to the stock gauge its only running like 12-13 psi.

 

[Ravenous]

With tunerpro/ostrich and DS-map you can replace your narrow band sensor with the wideband.... I would think it is the same with the 1G link but I can't say for sure. You could also consider megasquirt for a full standalone and do away with the factory ecu altogether. The problem could be your ecu? Do you know anybody who would let you swap theirs in to see if that is it?

 

[Detective Coating]

Yes you can use about 3 other inputs for it. DSMLink for 1g's are pretty cheap, around $500 used. Honestly though, if you are rather stock this won't fix your problem. Your problem lies elsewhere.

 

[My1GLaser]

Yes you have an EGR input for logging a WB. Also, if you switch to the GM MAS setup, you have 2 more inputs available for logging with DSMLink. (IAT & baro)

. I just saw that you live in Fargo. Since it is the coldest place in the US, you will get fuel cut sooner than you did in the warmer seasons. Without a boost gauge, there is no way to know what boost you are running, and with a 3" exhaust your turbo is probably creeping.

I have DSMLink and the other night it was 30* and my datalog showed 2 psi more boost and 30 more HP, so you might just be hitting fuel cut sooner because of the cold air.

The hertz level of the airflow measured by the MAF and sent to ECU is what causes fuel cut.

Alternately, you can hack your MAF to reduce the hertz level the ECU sees and postpone the fuel cut issue. I don't know what tuning capabilities you have, but you would need a WB connected so you can shoot for a target AFR. Without control over the ECU, you could manipulate the fuel pressure with an AFPR, but that is a hack job at best and you better pay good attention to the WB.

Just get DSMLink and save the headache...thats what I did the first time my car hit fuel cut, and it has been the best investment I have made for my DSM.

 

[kylush]

With tunerpro/ostrich and DS-map you can replace your narrow band sensor with the wideband.... I would think it is the same with the 1G link but I can't say for sure. You could also consider megasquirt for a full standalone and do away with the factory ecu altogether. The problem could be your ecu? Do you know anybody who would let you swap theirs in to see if that is it?

No not really.....



And my problem lies elsewhere?? Like where cause theres no boost leaks anywhere, and i checked the seals on my injectors and everything too......... nothing

Actually I take that back, i'm not sure about the injectors. Sitting and revving and whatever they don't leak at all, no smell of gas, although when you're in the car and really get on it you can sometimes smell gas. Although you can also somtimes smell gas after filling up or just sitting idling cause my filler was screwed up and it replaced with like an old radiator hose and i think some fumes may leak out of it everyonce in awhile.

 

[kylush]

Yes you have an EGR input for logging a WB. Also, if you switch to the GM MAS setup, you have 2 more inputs available for logging with DSMLink.

. I just saw that you live in Fargo. Since it is the coldest place in the US, you will get fuel cut sooner than you did in the warmer seasons. Without a boost gauge, there is no way to know what boost you are running, and with a 3" exhaust your turbo is probably creeping.

I have DSMLink and the other night it was 30* and my datalog showed 2 psi more boost and 30 more HP, so you might just be hitting fuel cut sooner because of the cold air.

Haha yes it is cold currently 14 with a -1 windchill and I am aware that it will hit fuel cut sooner with the colder denser air. Just thinking with my mods that it shouldn't really have been hitting it in the first place.

 

[Detective Coating]

Put it in neutral and rev the throttle cable with your hand and watch for it. With just those mods I am putting money on it being the hacked MAF. There's no way you shouldbe hitting fuel cut on 12-13 psi especially in a 1g.

 

[My1GLaser]

Put it in neutral and rev the throttle cable with your hand and watch for it. With just those mods I am putting money on it being the hacked MAF. There's no way you shouldbe hitting fuel cut on 12-13 psi especially in a 1g.

I don't believe he has a hacked MAF. I was saying that would be an alternative way to get rid of fuel cut.

I doubt you are really running 12-13 psi. I thought that removing the BCS restrictor caused a 14b to run around 15psi? A boost gauge would be the first mod I would put on to see if you need to spend money on tuning devices or not. IMO, a boost leak test is not really done correctly without the timing pressure drop by watching a boost gauge. What about the PCV valve, is it leaking boost? They suck ass and leak at anything above 10 psi. Put a check valve b/w the PCV valve and the IM.

With a 3" exhaust you are boost creeping without a doubt.

 

[Detective Coating]

I don't believe he has a hacked MAF. I was saying that would be an alternative way to get rid of fuel cut.

I doubt you are really running 12-13 psi. I thought that removing the BCS restrictor caused a 14b to run around 15psi? A boost gauge would be the first mod I would put on to see if you need to spend money on tuning devices or not. IMO, a boost leak test is not really done correctly without the timing pressure drop by watching a boost gauge. What about the PCV valve, is it leaking boost? They suck ass and leak at anything above 10 psi. Put a check valve b/w the PCV valve and the IM.

With a 3" exhaust you are boost creeping without a doubt.

As far as mods, I have all "free mods", so all emisssions stuff removed, hacked maf, hacked aircan, bcs restrictor removed, ect. and then a 3 inch turboback exhaust mandrel bent, no cat just a muffler.

^ Yeah, he does. Yeah its an alternative but I'd rather fix the problem the correct way and not just bandage it for a potential leaking gas line or injector seal. I agree check the PCV valve because they suck on our cars. I'd also agree with getting a damn boost gauge instead of guessing what boost you are running. What is the BCS restrictor? Do you mean you just hooked up a vacuum line from the J-pipe to the wastegate to run stock WG pressure and no MBC? If so you are only running around 7-8psi.

 

[My1GLaser]

What is the BCS restrictor?

The boost control solenoid has something inside that can be removed that changes the control of the WG, from like 11-12 psi up to 15ish.

Yeah sorry, I just read that he has a hacked MAF. Hmmm, how do you tune a hacked MAF with no boost gauge and no WB??? I bet you are running 16-17 psi and at the limit of your fuel system. Although I know that has nothing to do with fuel cut, it is still a point to be mentioned.

 

[black92_tsi_awd]

^ I just meant junk compared to link because I think link is absolutely amazing and V3 will go beyond all standards. You can have speed density with V2 also. You can just go with a GM-MAF and they're new cable to eliminate all that other junk.

Hasn't V3 been "coming out" for 2 yrs...when the hell is it actually going to show up?

 

[My1GLaser]

Hasn't V3 been "coming out" for 2 yrs...when the hell is it actually going to show up?

Sometime late winter or early spring from what I understand. I love DSMLink and V2 has worked very well for me. I probably won't even upgrade to V3 until the summer...if then.

 

[SnowBird]

I don't believe he has a hacked MAF. I was saying that would be an alternative way to get rid of fuel cut.

With a 3" exhaust you are boost creeping without a doubt.

I dont know about that. I have a 14B with a 16G hotside, ported o2 mani, and no cat with full 3" exhaust and I dont creep at all.

I was also having fuel cut problems at 12-13 psi with no leaks, but now I think I am backfiring instead.

 

[Sam@RRE]

www.ds-map.net

Full standalone system with the stock ecu (EPROM)

Advantages: great fuel economy and full readout, tuning, and all the other things about having a MAP sensor (boost leaks only slow you down, doesn't mess up how the car runs)
it requires a wideband and a map sensor

IF IT STILL USES A STOCK ECU ITS NOT A STANDALONE!

Don't know how many times people get this wrong.

Standalone basically share no background with the old ecu, you pin the harness yourself, set up ignition timing, get the ecu to understand when tdc is and when to fire spark or fuel. Build the entire fuel/timing maps.