The quest for 12's

[sYnOnYx]

Ok, so my overall goal is around 350hp and a 12sec 1/4 mile.

the car :

97 talon awd automatic.

mods :

SAFC
intake+ filter
3" downpipe + exhaust
SSAC intercooler kit
1G BOV
Hallman Classic MBC set @ 16psi

I believe now is the time to upgrade my turbo.

but my question is what size ?

i have the option to pick up my buddies MHI 16G + install kit for $250 ( i think he needs cash for xmas )

or pick up a 50 trim setup for more $$

would a 16G get me to my goals ?

or

would i have to go bigger ?

 

[1993eclipseGS]

I have a brand new bb turbonetics 50trim variant for the price of a 16g and it comes with a mitsubishi turbine housing so it'll bolt right up to your car! If you do decide to go that route you can pm me, Being it is against forum rules if I were to list a price of talk about it in this thread. You'll grow out of a 16g fast and be looking to upgrade shortly after I'm sure of it.

You would definatly be able to break 12's with a 16g, I don't see why you woulden't. I've ran 12.9 with just a mbc/race gas/fuel pump and unbolted exhaust in a 1g AWD, Although that was a 1g, And 5spd so it's kind of a comparing apples and oranges.

 

[sYnOnYx]

Thanks mang.

 

[alice]

I would say go the 50-trim route because you have a lot more room to play than you would with the 16g. Search around here and you will find tons of comparisons between 16g's and 50-trims.

 

[winterftbl]

I would say get the 16g unless your going to build your motor! The 50trim will kill your motor and you can get into the 12's with the 16g, especially with race gas.

 

[MrBoxx]

As 1993EclipseGS mentioned, you'll likely grow out of a 16g before too long. Yes, you can get 350hp out of it, and 12's would be fairly easy to achieve, but with a 50trim, you set yourself up for much more adaptability for the future. The supporting mods are nearly the same; it's just a matter of tuning.

A few years ago, it seemed that the Evo316g was the "bread-and-butter" turbo for DSM'ers. Everyone had one, everyone wanted one, and everyone was running 12's with them. Now, it seems like the 50 trim has become everyone's favorite, for very good reasons. Fast spooling, great powerband, and several different companies are producing them, giving you plenty of options for how you want YOUR 50 trim to run and look.

 

[turboglenn]

As 1993EclipseGS mentioned, you'll likely grow out of a 16g before too long. Yes, you can get 350hp out of it, and 12's would be fairly easy to achieve, but with a 50trim, you set yourself up for much more adaptability for the future. The supporting mods are nearly the same; it's just a matter of tuning.

A few years ago, it seemed that the Evo316g was the "bread-and-butter" turbo for DSM'ers. Everyone had one, everyone wanted one, and everyone was running 12's with them. Now, it seems like the 50 trim has become everyone's favorite, for very good reasons. Fast spooling, great powerband, and several different companies are producing them, giving you plenty of options for how you want YOUR 50 trim to run and look.

+1 to all of that.. I say buy the turbo from the member who posted saying he had one. With the mitsu hot side, you'll save from buying a manifold, probably get better spool from it and it's BB to boot. DO IT!!

I had a 16g for a while, they are fun. Torque steer is so much fun on them with a FWD car that i almost miss it in a way (plus it's spooling by 3k RPM ) Now i run a T3/T4 hybrid stage III turbine with a 57trim compressor wheel.. It's a little lagy but the power of a big turbo (to4e or similar) is such a rush that you will never grow tired of that, unless you're a pure drag racing fiend who eats ramen noodles to buy race gas

And do it right the first time and save for a Little while longer and go straight to at least a dSMlink (if not stand alone, but that's complicated) and get some bigger injectors .. I'd say 850's are a nice choice.

The few extra hundred you spend to get those instead of an SAFC is well worth it in the longer run..(you didn't specify injectors) but the SAFC has troubles associated with it running anything bigger than a set of 550's which are good for 300 and some say they are good to 350. With 720's or 850's you should be able to make upward of 450HP safely. The bug never stops biting, this has taught me to go and buy the "better part" that i think i might need r want later, because in the end you'll be selling the SAFC and 550's so you can upgrade anyway. So it's best to just buy the good stuff from teh get go, so to speak.

If i still had the money from the 16g, 550's and SAFC that would be that much extra dumped into my current setup, because i didn't get near what i payed for those pieces selling them 2nd hand. I could probably afford the tranny rebuild and LSD for the combined price of all the Little stuff i upgraded later anyway, but bought them because i didn't want to save long enough to get the "right part" for my needs to begin with.

 

[sYnOnYx]

thanks for the responses guys.

i dont plan on building my motor until sometime next year.

but could i safely run the 50trim on say 15psi w/ fuel upgrades ?

 

[GVR4592]

Get the fuel system upgrades before you buy the turbo.

 

[Icarus]

Ditto on the fuel system upgrades. Another thing to consider is upgrading the tranny. A high stall torque converter will go a long way towards 12's.

On another note until you free restrictions on your intake side, as well do some porting of your cast exhaust pieces, you will defintely feel the lag on a larger turbo. A smaller faster spooling and well ported turbo will feel more responsive on an auto.

 

[sYnOnYx]

I think im gonna go ahead and pick up the 16G + install kit for now. he got desperate and offered it to me for $200. guess he needs that dough for xmas.

 

[SBR Joe]

I would say get the 16g unless your going to build your motor! The 50trim will kill your motor and you can get into the 12's with the 16g, especially with race gas.

I would take a 16g over a 50 trim all day long. Ive never seen a 50 trim go low 10's on a street car before....


Joe

 

[dsmsucks]

I would take a 16g over a 50 trim all day long. Ive never seen a 50 trim go low 10's on a street car before....


Joe

Pound for pound a 50trim out flows a 16g hands down.

 

[winterftbl]

I also second getting a higher torque converter because that will net you the most gain. Anywhere from .5 to 1 second.

 

[winterftbl]

Pound for pound a 50trim out flows a 16g hands down.


No one is saying its not, but for 12's. And he is not building his motor so the 50 trim will kill his motor.

 

[MrBoxx]

A 50-trim will NOT kill a motor, unless you don't know how to tune it and keep boost down. With proper supporting mods and a moderate boost level, the motor itself shouldn't be in danger.

 

[jw_55_55]

How does a 50 trim kill a motor when a lot of dsm's run them and never have a problem?? I think its called tuning and othe factors that make or break a car!! winterfbl you should have some facts to back this up because the facts of what i know is you can make a lot more power and go further with a 50 trim without any problems with your motor!!

 

[SBR Joe]

Pound for pound a 50trim out flows a 16g hands down.

I will not argue this point with you, but what good does it do? why waste money on a 50 trim when you can make the same or more power sooner with a 16g for a few hundred dollars less? And for the original posters goal an EVO III 16g will be plenty enough turbo to hit what hes shooting for and them some...plus its user friendly, just bolt it on. Not having to deal with denting the water pipe because the comp housing is too big...eliminating your water lines because its a dry center section, having to make it work with the current IC system....etc, etc. A 16g is just much more practical in this situation.


Joe

 

[sYnOnYx]

UPDATE !

someone on my local board is selling a turbonetics 50 trim that needs a rebuild. for DIRT CHEAP.

i know a guy who rebuilds turbos , and gets it done quick at a resonable price. so i might just take the plunge. go big or go home right ? i have a good tuner , so its just a matter of being patient to get the manifold,wastegate, and lines.

the turbo is watercooled aswell too.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

How much is he selling it for if it needs to be sent out and rebuilt for more money? Someone sent me a pm saying they would give me $400-450 shipped I think, For the brand nwe turbonetics bolt on turbo I have, BB. But I just hafto call them to make arrangements. Hopefully you're getting it really cheap.

 

[1gWill]

thanks for the responses guys.

i dont plan on building my motor until sometime next year.

but could i safely run the 50trim on say 15psi w/ fuel upgrades ?

There is a GST here in town with a AGP RS49T ".50 trim" that runs 27psi daily with meth injection on the stock block. He's got all basic bolt ons, JMFab intake mani, fuel upgrades, and tuned with DSMlink making 450whp.

I think your goals are easily attainable with a 16g though on pump.

 

[kittay]

I would call around to a few places, like FP does rebuilds. If you can find out what brand, I would recommend calling up that place and getting quotes on the rebuilds. If you have a friend who does it, get a price from him as well. Find out if it's worth it or not.
I believe rebuilds start around 200 and goes up depending on whatever else is wrong.

I picked up my 50 trim for 400 used. I haven't ran it yet- hopefully this spring.
But I'm running the evo 16g on my dd and went 12.3 on it.

Hopefully that info helps ya.

 

[SidewaysSupra33]

I also second getting a higher torque converter because that will net you the most gain. Anywhere from .5 to 1 second.

^^^Beat me too it.

 

[HBWaterfowler]

I think you would get the best results if you used some math and some estimation and used it to plot some map points (3500, 5500 & 7500rpm). Then request the flow charts from the manufacturers that make the turbos your planning on using. When you plot your map points onto the flow chart make sure the points all land with-in the flow chart.

You don't want to pick a turbo that is too large for the application. Doing so may cause the turbo to be running in a surge zone, which is basically an area of flow instability caused by the compressor inducer stalling.

Obviously having too small of a turbo could cause high outlet air temperatures, reduced power, and increased chances of detonation at high rpm.

You may need a larger intercooler then the stock one.

I can provide you with the formulas if you wanted to give it a try.

This webpage has a tech guide that will allow you to safely upgrade your DSM w/o to much worries about detonation.
Tech Guide - DSMtuners

Buschur Racing has a very nice Stage 1,2,3 upgrade sequence.
Buschur Racing - Your source for Mitsubishi racing parts and accessories
Stage 1 safely takes your DSM to around 300hp, and the 1/4 mile would be low 13s / high 12s. I find this helpful because they also give you a price range of what it could cost to finish each stage.

Instead of just putting on random mods, you can enjoy your DSM at each stage.

I'm still working on getting my car running stock like a champ then I will start modding like yourself.

Good luck,

-Tyler

 

[Death_Trap22]

Buschur Racing has a very nice Stage 1,2,3 upgrade sequence.
Buschur Racing - Your source for Mitsubishi racing parts and accessories
Stage 1 safely takes your DSM to around 300hp, and the 1/4 mile would be low 13s / high 12s. I find this helpful because they also give you a price range of what it could cost to finish each stage.

Instead of just putting on random mods, you can enjoy your DSM at each stage.

I'm still working on getting my car running stock like a champ then I will start modding like yourself.

Good luck,

-Tyler

Ok, wait it says 16g upgrade for 1g autos and 2gs...does that mean with all those mods my 1g 5speed is close to 300hp and at least a 13 sec car?

thats on a stock 14b

Thanks for that info it helped..