The quest for 12's

[sYnOnYx]

Ok, so my overall goal is around 350hp and a 12sec 1/4 mile.

the car :

97 talon awd automatic.

mods :

SAFC
intake+ filter
3" downpipe + exhaust
SSAC intercooler kit
1G BOV
Hallman Classic MBC set @ 16psi

I believe now is the time to upgrade my turbo.

but my question is what size ?

i have the option to pick up my buddies MHI 16G + install kit for $250 ( i think he needs cash for xmas )

or pick up a 50 trim setup for more $$

would a 16G get me to my goals ?

or

would i have to go bigger ?

 

[GVR4592]

I will not argue this point with you, but what good does it do? why waste money on a 50 trim when you can make the same or more power sooner with a 16g for a few hundred dollars less? And for the original posters goal an EVO III 16g will be plenty enough turbo to hit what hes shooting for and them some...plus its user friendly, just bolt it on. Not having to deal with denting the water pipe because the comp housing is too big...eliminating your water lines because its a dry center section, having to make it work with the current IC system....etc, etc. A 16g is just much more practical in this situation.


Joe

Do you have any dyno sheets of 500whp 16g powered cars....with no nitrous?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I will not argue this point with you, but what good does it do? why waste money on a 50 trim when you can make the same or more power sooner with a 16g for a few hundred dollars less? And for the original posters goal an EVO III 16g will be plenty enough turbo to hit what hes shooting for and them some...plus its user friendly, just bolt it on. Not having to deal with denting the water pipe because the comp housing is too big...eliminating your water lines because its a dry center section, having to make it work with the current IC system....etc, etc. A 16g is just much more practical in this situation.


Joe

The amount of money to make a 16G work with a 2g car is the same amount of money making a 50 trim fit a 2g car. When you're doing a turbo swap, all of the things you are mentioning isn't necessarily rocket science to do while the turbo is out. FYI, nonturbo water housing, FP race manifold, 50 trim and I have a solid 1/3" of room from the pipe and the turbo, no fitment issues here. I understand your rationale, but to say even 350 awhp is a little outrageous coming from an otherwise stock car + an e316G. We're not talking about SBR's 2.1 destroker from the dyno shootout last year

 

[SBR Joe]

Do you have any dyno sheets of 500whp 16g powered cars....with no nitrous?

i can show you one of a 451whp 16g car.....no nitrous, and a time slip of 10.33@131, do you have any 10 second pass slips for a 50 trim??


Joe

 

[SBR Joe]

The amount of money to make a 16G work with a 2g car is the same amount of money making a 50 trim fit a 2g car. When you're doing a turbo swap, all of the things you are mentioning isn't necessarily rocket science to do while the turbo is out. FYI, nonturbo water housing, FP race manifold, 50 trim and I have a solid 1/3" of room from the pipe and the turbo, no fitment issues here. I understand your rationale, but to say even 350 awhp is a little outrageous coming from an otherwise stock car + an e316G. We're not talking about SBR's 2.1 destroker from the dyno shootout last year

True...but my responses were in regards to his question "will a 16g get me to my goals?" Sure you can do the 50 trim and make a little bit more power. But a 16g will be more than enough to get him where he wants. Thats what i was basing my responses on, but i am a true believer in the "kick assness" of the E316g.

Joe

 

[GVR4592]

i can show you one of a 451whp 16g car.....no nitrous, and a time slip of 10.33@131, do you have any 10 second pass slips for a 50 trim??


Joe

Arguing the point of who ran a 10 with either turbo wasn't my goal when I asked you for a dyno sheet of a 500whp 16g equipped car. You stated that the Evo 3 16g would make more power than a 50 trim. It's not possible. Then you change your story when you get confronted. It's just the same typical bs that you used to pull around here And I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that Pat's car was pretty well gutted. I guess it depends on your definition of a street car. You didn't get that red square from being a fountain of useful information, just something to think about.

 

[SBR Joe]

Arguing the point of who ran a 10 with either turbo wasn't my goal when I asked you for a dyno sheet of a 500whp 16g equipped car. You stated that the Evo 3 16g would make more power than a 50 trim. It's not possible. Then you change your story when you get confronted. It's just the same typical bs that you used to pull around here And I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that Pat's car was pretty well gutted. I guess it depends on your definition of a street car. You didn't get that red square from being a fountain of useful information, just something to think about.

It was tastefully gutted. Dash was there, no back seats, no bumpers...the usual. But seems to me that you seem to want to start problems with me for whatever reason. But in regards to your statement....please refrain from commenting until you get things straight. And i never said it would make more power over a 50 trim, i just said you can. I have seen more fast 16g cars that 50 trim cars. What i DID say was that i thought it was more practical and would reach the goals he was trying to achieve with ease..never said it would make more power...that would almost be silly for me to say because its physically imposible to make more with a 16g. You seem to like to get off topic and try to pick me apart as you please, not what i expect from a person of hierarchy on here. PRACTICAL is the word for the day. But once again Mr. GVR4... what do i know????? Im just a salesman.

To the original poster....you can hit your goals EASILY with either turbo. You will make more easy power with the 50 trim, obviously its flows more air...but the E316g will run 12's with no hesitation and is a little cheaper. I personally would rock the 16g but beings you are automatic, the 50 trim would probably kick ass because you can brake boost and dont have to worry about lag between shifts. Whatever route you go im sure you will be pleased with the results.




Joe

 

[GVR4592]

why waste money on a 50 trim when you can make the same or more power sooner with a 16g for a few hundred dollars less?

I guess I must have misunderstood this statement. I thought you were saying that a 16g would make more power than a 50 trim.

 

[SBR Joe]

I guess I must have misunderstood this statement. I thought you were saying that a 16g would make more power than a 50 trim.

Never did i say anything false.....a 16g CAN make more power than a 50 trim...and costs less.


Joe

 

[GVR4592]

Never did i say anything false.....a 16g CAN make more power than a 50 trim...and costs less.


Joe

How?

 

[SBR Joe]

How?

By having a brain and some tuning know how. But lets stop this stupid off topic argument before it gets out of hand...and judging by our personalities...it will.

Joe

 

[GVR4592]

Just explain how an Evo3 16g can make more power than a TO4E 50 trim, and I won't say anything.

 

[SBR Joe]

Just explain how an Evo3 16g can make more power than a TO4E 50 trim, and I won't say anything.

Show me a low 10 second pass on a standard 50 trim and well call it quits.



Joe

 

[GVR4592]

Joe I never made any claims about a 50 trim car being able to run a low 10, I've never seen one either. The closest I know of is when Curt ran a 10.7 on the Green, which I believe uses a 50 trim compressor wheel.

The whole point of my question was in regards to your post:

why waste money on a 50 trim when you can make the same or more power sooner with a 16g for a few hundred dollars less?

Like I said I must have misunderstood what you were saying. I still don't understand, it seems you're either contradicting yourself or you're trying to be tricky with your wording, I don't mean that as an insult, that's just how it appears to me.

I'm not going to argue with you about which one is going to make more power, I just want to hear your thoughts on the subject and I won't ask you anything else about it.

The way I read it, you are saying that an Evo 3 16g will make more power than a TO4E 50 trim. Are you saying that running both of these turbo's to their max on the same setup, the Evo 3 will make more power, or am I misunderstanding you? Like I said I'm not going to argue with you, I'm just trying to clarify.

 

[SBR Joe]

Joe I never made any claims about a 50 trim car being able to run a low 10, I've never seen one either. The closest I know of is when Curt ran a 10.7 on the Green, which I believe uses a 50 trim compressor wheel.

The whole point of my question was in regards to your post:

Like I said I must have misunderstood what you were saying. I still don't understand, it seems you're either contradicting yourself or you're trying to be tricky with your wording, I don't mean that as an insult, that's just how it appears to me.

I'm not going to argue with you about which one is going to make more power, I just want to hear your thoughts on the subject and I won't ask you anything else about it.

The way I read it, you are saying that an Evo 3 16g will make more power than a TO4E 50 trim. Are you saying that running both of these turbo's to their max on the same setup, the Evo 3 will make more power, or am I misunderstanding you? Like I said I'm not going to argue with you, I'm just trying to clarify.

Ok. I will agree that i may have worded it wrong....You can make more power with a 16g but my argument behind this is in the tuning pretty much. I should have been more clear with my statements. Both turbos pushing their max capabilities, the 50 trim will make more power because it obvioously forces more air into the equation and every one knows more air equals more power. But i do believe and will stand behind my statement that a 16g will perform better under the right conditions. My whole point was based on his setup and his goals. Maybe i had some misleading information and should have clarified more....Based on his setup....a E316g will get him where he wants with no issues...a 50 trim on the other hand will as well, i just think that a 16g will run better times easier because of its spooling capabilities and just overall ease of tuning. Most of my argument wasnt based on "power" numbers, but for overall performance wether it be "numbers" you are looking for or actual results.


Joe

 

[GVR4592]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[SBR Joe]

Thanks for the clarification.

You're very welcome.

E316g FTW.

Joe

 

[c4uldr0n]

Just to be the black sheep, I upgraded from a EvoIII 16g to my SBR-G50. The power band on the G50 is superior to the EvoIII 16G. Granted the 16g spool a little quicker, with larger cams and higher rpm's the G50 really comes alive and doesn't run out of breathe like the 16G. It will be easier to meet your goals with the 50 trim opposed to the 16G (in terms of power). Lets also not forget that if you are running pump gas, the 50 trim is going to walk all over the 16g.

-c4