The Official "What's this DSM worth?" Thread

[90laserRSfwd]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157911

you can turbo your car with the auto trans. read this ^^^

 

[mrtalon40]

If I were you just keep it as a daily driver like everybody said, you can get some good horsepower from a N/A DSM for not that much cash either, I wish I would of before I attempted to Turbo my GS it was a waste of time and money I spent $1000 on parts and I could saved that and got a GSX or something! O yeah transmission doesn't have nothing to do with making it faster though, if you wanna have more fun out of it get an intake,headers,exhaust, and just put a manual transmission in there and I guarantee you will like it whole lot better and do some suspension work!

 

[dsm-onster]

That car will make a nice daily driver.

Honestly, the only way I would look into turbo'ing that car is if it was a complete motor swap. The transmission has nothing to do with whether or not you can modify the car. Yes you can build on this car, but I wouldn't, personally. The non-turbo block lacks oil squirters that I believe are necessary for running a turbo with future plans of even moderate modifications. If you are looking for performance, this is not the way to go, IMO, unless you have deep pockets. Hold out for a factory turbo'd car and you will be very happy you did.

Many get very far w/out oil squirters. Like 400hp far ! Not many people get very far w/ the n/t 4g63 pistons. ZERO knock is key. . . The ring lands are very high up on the piston and this puts the rings close to the high combustion pressures seen in a turbo application. Also the pistons are now weaker because of having less "meat" at the piston top. The rims of the n/t pistons are known to break apart at 12+ psi plus minor knock.

I'd turbo the n/t but plan on running a stock 1g turbo ecu tune while retarding base timing about 3 degrees. You'll get fine throttle response even w/ the timing retard because the retard will increase spool speed and you're already running much higher compression than 1g turbo guys. It will be worlds different w/ a turbo. So you'll likely be happy for a while.

Get the. . .
14b turbo (1g manual trans)
450cc injectors(1g manual trans)
Injector resistor pack
wire to extend the 02 sensor harness
1g turbo throttlebody and elbow
Knock sensor
Wire for the knock sensor
1g turbo maf and pigtail for wiring harness
remove the purge canister
turbo fuel pump
Turbo ecu (1g manual trans- if you get a 1990 ecu you'll have to swap two wires)
Turbo fuel pressure regulator (1g manual trans)
2G turbo exhaust manifold (less prone to cracking)
2g turbo o2 housing
1g turbo downpipe (or custom exhaust)
Boost gauge
1g intercooler piping and intercooler
Turbo oil pan (1993-1999: 7-bolt engine)
Turbo oil drain/feed
Turbo coolant hard lines

Data logger!!!

. . . That's about it. The below link is more detailed. All of this is alot less than $1000! Junk yards and ebay is your friend. You can get a gsx shell w/ no engine for 1000 bones. Or a running one w/ a blown tranny or viceversa for 1000 bones. Either way, a $1000 gsx is going to take alot of work. To me, about as much work as turbocharging your n/t and still much more money to repair/replace whatever is wrong/missing. . .

Run boost control straight off the wastegate (no mbc). In fact, cut the wastegate actuator arm, thread the ends, and extend the rod a little for lower boost pressure for safety until you see how your setup will handle the boost. The key is not getting any knock. Don't do any of this w/out logging!

If you get the boost bug. . . Swap in a set of turbo pistons before you touch the boost. Don't trash a block for not having any self-control and patience . And, do yourself a favor and get the 6-bolt rods if/when you do this. They are cheap used and good for 500whp!

You'll not have to worry about prematurely wearing the weaker n/t clutch because you are automatic . In fact, the automatic n/t seams to be a better turbo project, because I believe the n/t auto trannies are just as stong as the turbo autos. Research that. Eitherway, there's much less work/money involved to get most any automatic to handle much more torque than intended.

1g 2.0L DSM Non-Turbo to Turbo Conversion

n/t stuff you can do:

hack the aircan and block the filter from the engine bay heat
Or reroute the filter element to outside the engine bay
remove the air intake silencer
K & N airfilter
hard intake pipe
Safc for a leaner tune/more timing
ebay header
2.25-2.5 mandrel bent exhaust w/ a fart-can muffler
remove weight

 

[19Eclipse90]

Many get very far w/out oil squirters. Like 400hp far

I know. That's why I was sure to say I wouldn't personally build on one. But to each his own.

 

[TearsForTalon]

To build on to a N/T is kind of pointless (no offence). Concidering you could spend an extra $1000 and get a turbo dsm instead of spending $5000 and up to turbo a N/T. I dunno, but door one looks like the better option.

 

[mrtalon40]

To build on to a N/T is kind of pointless (no offence). Concidering you could spend an extra $1000 and get a turbo dsm instead of spending $5000 and up to turbo a N/T. I dunno, but door one looks like the better option.

I agree on that! I would just buy some N/A performance parts and call it a day! its too much of a head ache plus reliability comes into play, if its not done right it will become very unreliable, you can invest that money in parts in something better! I wish I would have listened before I attempted mine that just making your DSM a Frankenstein.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

On this deal.

You <----
Him <--------------------------------------------------


As clearly displayed here you are getting the short end of the stick.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

You give me $2100 and I will have fully built motor.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

On another note, I made a spreadsheet that lists price and parts from every vendor on an motor where everything was replaced NEW and all internal parts from the Oil Pan, main mearing caps to the Rods/Pistons were upgraded.

This would be a theoritcal motor that could hold well over 1000 awhp.

And it cost less then $3000.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209991

 

[dsm-onster]

Look at the list of parts I posted. . . How could those used parts possibly even total half of $5000?

Is a stock ecu w/ stock injectors, maf, fuel pump, and a stock turbo w/ stock oil and water lines unreliable?

Yes, there's more work involved. But I don't believe "the $1000 for a gs-t that doesn't need lots of work" for one second! This is a viable option. And it doesn't cost that much money. Sure, he can sell his n/t and add money to what he gats and get a gs-t or even a gsx, but they are getting harder and harder to come by. They are easy to mod and can take a beating and everyone knows it. If you have a n/t in great shape, I can certainly see someone turbocharging it; especially if they want a mild setup.

Hell, I'm having to swap in an n/t engine into my brothers blown gsx. All the junk yards say the same thing. . ." shoulda came here 2 years ago, I had them a dime a dozen". I'm swapping in 6-bolt turbo internals at least. ebay turbo blocks are sold for $850+ where a couple of years ago you could snag one up for $500. That tells you how much more turbo dsms are costing guys.

 

[motox-010]

Well, someone bought that Talon that I was lookin at. I dont know how much they bought it for, but im sure that the person couldnt get the salesman down very much. Kinda disapointing that someone paid that much for a car that has some serious problems.

 

[dsm-onster]

yes sir eee. Hes was asking $500 but talked him down to $300 plus the registration is 3 years late.

You're a thief See if it runs soon!

 

[Bmxr152]

, it turns over but wont start. Should be an eays fix. If i blow the motor, it going to be built with the best.

 

[mg89]

For the 95 talon tsi that i'm interested in buying, the guy said that the clutch is sticking at times, and sometimes the clutch has to be pumped when started for a couple of minutes. He says he doesn't hear ticking noise from the clutch, and no change in the oil pressure. Possible crankwalk? It's had the signs of a crank walk before and he rebuilt the engine about 20k ago.

 

[l3igl3ang]

You give me $2100 and I will have fully built motor.

that would be a good offer if u didnt live so far away. i would have u to rebuild it and install it and dont forget the t28 tubro which cost around $500 used on here that was included in the price

im going to try and offer him 2k for the

rebuilt motor with 1g head
upgraded t28
FMIC
Clutch

also do u think it would be better to use a 1g head on the 1g motor or my 2g head on a 1g motor ?

i dont know if he will sell it w/o the head or not

also some one said that its hard to get a 6 bolt motor to work on a 2g u have to use alot of 1g and 2g parts but i forgot to mention its comeing out of a 1995 eclipse AWD so if it works in that car it should work in mine so all i would have to do is the swap he is includeing the coil packs and CAS with the motor

 

[DGajre777]

It sounds like you have made your decision, good luck with your project.

 

[l3igl3ang]

It sounds like you have made your decision, good luck with your project.

yeah i would had rather bought one that already had the swap and stuff but when i find them for a good price i dont have the money ><

and i looked for the classifieds and most the 6bolts on there is close to this price or more like one was $2,300 w/o tubro but it was a high preformance build while another was $1350 and it was a JDM motor which i know has around 50k miles on them

so i think i will go this route i just hope it works out right

 

[beating4g63s]

did your friend ever tell you what kind of clutch is on the motor because if its an ebay clutch it prob wouldnt hold up better then a stock on friend had one just break in to pieces on a stock car after 600 miles. anyways dude youll be way beter off also if your looking for 6 bolt you always can get a 1g n/t motor get upgraed cams or turbo ecipse cams and either 2g pistons or some upgrades. and still have enough for a fp3065 turbo and clutch. i mean where i live i have one of the only dsms around and can find a n/t 2.0 for 200 hell i found actually 3 of them today cause im in need of a 6 bolt and id only cost me 600 for 3 6 bolts and if i had your budget id have still 1500 to throw at them all. if i were you id look around for an alt route before spending that much even a new 16g cost around 550 and used prob get for 250+. and if you dont know alot about motors then chiltons and haynes are great starts hell i didnt know jack about motor builds 2-3 years ago and now im on my 3rd build getting my 4th in a few days and my last build is now pushing 350+hp and about to be around 600+. and expect to push 600hp on the next two.

 

[97gstt3]

i am looking to get a 1997 GST with 97*** miles in good-great shape. the car has a bov, turbo timer, bost gage, air fuel, leather, moonroof, full turbo back, lowering kit, org. rims, GSX spoiler, alpine radio, short thro shifter, new "used" t3/t4 turbo. All the mods are greddy.

 

[l3igl3ang]

how much is the person selling it for

 

[97gstt3]

i now have a 1998 volkswagen golf gti vr6. in ok condition with 135** miles and no performence parts. im giving him my car and 800. does it sound like a good deal?

 

[silverbullett]

Mine cost me 7,250 with 85k and similar mods (at the time). How much was the other party asking without the trade?

 

[97gstt3]

he wasent. i had mine for sale/trade online. and he asked me to trade. his was not for sale but he and his buddys are germen and his buddy works on VR6's. so he is going to turbo my car. but do you think im geting the better trade?

 

[Boo5t_Addict]

Look at it this way: it's much easier to increase the power in a car already turbocharged from the factory than to turbocharge your existing car. In my opinion it's not a bad trade at all, if everythign's mechanically sound with the GST. Just make sure the blow off valve is recirculated, and not venting to atmosphere, and the car has the necessary fuel and tuning mods to take advantage of the t3/t4 turbo. Otherwise, you're looking at stock boost, and a car that's probably slower. After tuning, of course, you'd be with a much faster car. T3/t4 50 trims are known to quite easily put down 400-450 whp. I'd say go for it, but definitely get the car checked out by a Mitsu mechanic, just so you know what might need to be replaced....and then screw the stealership, do it yourself.

 

[97gstt3]

thats the thing. he is a Mitsu mechanic. he is a mechanic an a mitsu dealership in chicago. so you know the car has been survised right all the time "as he said it was". and it ws just tuned a week ago. runs great, but will need breaks.