The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[GRNDSM]

Who is saying that 12's are not possible? And this thread? Most of this thread deals with how to run mid to low 11's on a 14b .

However, if you can't hit 12's on a 14b, you probably should figure out what you are doing wrong before you move on to a larger turbo, because it is pretty easy.

 

[AQuinonez90]

Oh no I didnt mean the people on this thread . Im impressed with phil's set up I saw on another thread. My set up would be:
turbonetics boost controller
3000gt vr4 fuel pump
Safc
ported 14b
3 inch all the way thermal research rep.
Idk what else to add?? I just googled them now they disappeared from my mind.

I want to keep everything stock btw. ic, ic piping, injectors, ecu. Im wondering if its possible. Dont get me wrong, I have experienced at the track.

 

[DJ23GSX]

I've been following this thread for a long time now and I gotta say it inspires me and discourages me at the same time . My biggest problem is lack of seat time. You'll notice that the guys running fast on the 14b have tons of seat time under their belts. Its not like any joe blow can go out there and do what these guys are doing with the 14b. I'm sticking with my 14b til it blows just because of this thread. I swear this simple and lightly modded 1g I have now pulls just as hard as my last 16g powered 1g that had a laundry list of mods.

 

[1SloEvo]

I swear this simple and lightly modded 1g I have now pulls just as hard as my last 16g powered 1g that had a laundry list of mods.

If the mods don't complement each other, that's what tends to happen. And that's when people start throwing even more parts into the mix (bigger turbos, bigger cams, etc) without knowing how each of those parts can help, or possibly hurt the power potential.

 

[pneumo]

Oh no I didnt mean the people on this thread . Im impressed with phil's set up I saw on another thread. My set up would be:
turbonetics boost controller
3000gt vr4 fuel pump
Safc
ported 14b
3 inch all the way thermal research rep.
Idk what else to add?? I just googled them now they disappeared from my mind.

I want to keep everything stock btw. ic, ic piping, injectors, ecu. Im wondering if its possible. Dont get me wrong, I have experienced at the track.

It won't be easy to hit 12's on a 14b with those mods and 91 octane. Low octane is the main thing holding back your car. I'd recommend modifying the MAF by removing the lower honeycomb to lean it out a little. Keep the upper honeycomb in the maf, it's important. You could also get a FPR from a 1G non-turbo to raise fuel pressure a little so the injectors flow a little more. Then raise the boost a little, do a few runs at the track.

Give the car enough time to cool down in between runs! 30 to 45 minutes is good.

Then raise the boost a little more and drive it hard. Don't expect a great run on your first time out. Get a datalogger, see how the car is running, then make adjustments and fix the car before the next trip to the track.

Where's the closest track to Salinas?

 

[Kevin Jewer]

I remember back in 2001 with the 2g, I was running low 14s on the T25 pretty regularly. I tried race gas for the hell of it and picked up a half a second, 13.7s. All I had at the time was a manual boost controller, a pocketlogger, BR 2.5" TBE, 1gBOV, and K&N air filter. My GF at the time had a Vortech powered Civic Si that was faster (luckily I built it at least and didn't have to kill myself), so I threw a used 14b (125 bucks), walbro 190, and an AFC (leaned out to who knows what AFR) on it and ran 12.8s at 109. Man, those were the days back when you could pick up a whole second for 500 in mods. I went 12s with less than 1800 in parts, but it did take race gas to do it. I eventually ran plenty of low 12s on pump gas with 16Gs, but not on the stock side mount. These days with DSMlink, widebands, good intercoolers, 12s should be a lot easier.

 

[talontd92tsi]

I remember back in 2001 with the 2g, I was running low 14s on the T25 pretty regularly. I tried race gas for the hell of it and picked up a half a second, 13.7s. All I had at the time was a manual boost controller, a pocketlogger, BR 2.5" TBE, 1gBOV, and K&N air filter. My GF at the time had a Vortech powered Civic Si that was faster (luckily I built it at least and didn't have to kill myself), so I threw a used 14b (125 bucks), walbro 190, and an AFC (leaned out to who knows what AFR) on it and ran 12.8s at 109. Man, those were the days back when you could pick up a whole second for 500 in mods. I went 12s with less than 1800 in parts, but it did take race gas to do it. I eventually ran plenty of low 12s on pump gas with 16Gs, but not on the stock side mount. These days with DSMlink, widebands, good intercoolers, 12s should be a lot easier.

These two things make tuning so easy. PocketLogger/SAFC tuning was so... "well lets see what happens" . I could never get the damn thing to save the log right, and sure as hell could barely decipher what was happening when I was looking at it. You had guys that said .90v on the stock o2 is WAY TOO LEAN, then 2 seconds later, you had another guy say he runs .90v and is way too rich. Ahh the good old days, when a TD05 20G was considered a RACE ONLY <NOT FOR STREET USE> turbo .

 

[Nate Crisman]

I was going to ask about this, but forgot. Car just doesnt have the power to lower that 60'? What kind of 60' times were you hitting with the 16g?

Sorry for delay, I missed this one. The car is 60'-ing better on the 14b than it did on the 16G, but that's mostly because Iv got it more tuned in and experience launching it. I'v got the limit straps cranked down, the rear shocks on full stiff, and have been running it with more air pressure in the tires each time out (last time at 24psi). Basically the car has more traction and just needs more power or more gear ratio to come out harder. Maybe if I went back to the E3 16G now, which is capable of making more than 25psi of boost on the starting line, it would 60' faster? Looks like I won't find out till 2012 anyway. I really want to avoid spraying it until it makes the 1-2 shift...currently have my nitrous controls to not activate till >50mph.

 

[AQuinonez90]

It won't be easy to hit 12's on a 14b with those mods and 91 octane. Low octane is the main thing holding back your car. I'd recommend modifying the MAF by removing the lower honeycomb to lean it out a little. Keep the upper honeycomb in the maf, it's important. You could also get a FPR from a 1G non-turbo to raise fuel pressure a little so the injectors flow a little more. Then raise the boost a little, do a few runs at the track.

Give the car enough time to cool down in between runs! 30 to 45 minutes is good.

Then raise the boost a little more and drive it hard. Don't expect a great run on your first time out. Get a datalogger, see how the car is running, then make adjustments and fix the car before the next trip to the track.

Where's the closest track to Salinas?

Yes I know I need more than those mods. Well thanks for those tips, tomorrow I will go to pick and pull and find the non-t 1g I saw the other day and get the fpr. Ive been wanting to raise the boost as you said but for some reason I fear the knock and all that crap. Wondering if 15 (or more) would be safe for track use. The car is my commuter to work and back thats it. I dont beat the hell out of it either. And the closest track is sac raceway .

 

[pneumo]

Yes I know I need more than those mods. Well thanks for those tips, tomorrow I will go to pick and pull and find the non-t 1g I saw the other day and get the fpr. Ive been wanting to raise the boost as you said but for some reason I fear the knock and all that crap. Wondering if 15 (or more) would be safe for track use. The car is my commuter to work and back thats it. I dont beat the hell out of it either. And the closest track is sac raceway .

Oh dam, Sac is a long drive from Salinas!
I'd play it safe and keep the boost below 14 for daily driving. If the logs look OK then you could add another psi or 2 for the track.

 

[MichaelSuch]

What kind of power are you guys putting down? I just dyno'd with my 14b in my GS-T. 286hp/276tq on a dynojet. I looked at my logs after and it needs some work for sure. But I ran out of fuel, still on the factory fuel pump. Currently running open o2 since I hit a raccoon and it broke the welds on the DP flange. I was running WG pressures, but in the log it looks like it spike to ~16psi around 5,000 rpms then dropped back down to 11 psi around 6500. My mods are in my profile.

I have a BEP S262 waiting to be thrown on. But I'm considering pushing this 14b more... I have an external wastegate setup I can put on to control boost, and I'm still on the factory 1g exhaust manifold. I think if I could control boost, drop in a fuel pump, and do a little more tuning I think I could get it close to 350whp.

 

[Bohrn]

Micheal, I personally don't think a real 14b(no other wheels, no other housings etc)with no nitrous can flow that much air, enough for 350 wheel hp. its just too small.

Dynojets seem to be pretty optimistic compared to Mustang dynos or real world hp calculations. IE, with my 3076r and an early tune I made only a bit more than your quoted numbers with the 14b. The car is WAY WAY faster with that setup than with the 14b.

Go ahead and tune the car better, push the 14b for sure, I know I had fun with mine, but don't expect big numbers out of it if its all 14b and no nitrous.

 

[1990AWD]

Hey guys, yesterday I went to the track with the Eclipse.

I got three runs in, two were test runs at 10psi and the third was at 24psi (third gear, 24 dropping to 17, fourth gear, 24 dropping to 20). It was also very hot outside, 90+ degrees, and there was a lot of people which meant a lot of sitting in the staging lanes.

Anyways, I ran a [email protected] with a 1.954 60'. Before I put the fmic on, I did a 13.6@99 with a 1.86 60'. In other words, I could've done better if I had a chance for another run. I was also running rich with lowish timing - around 10.1:1 AFR and I think the fourth gear knock was just from the IATs getting high.

My mod list in my profile is up to date, but the car lost 40 lbs and is 3150 lbs with me in it (I'm 210).

They announced they are going to have one extra street legal day next Sunday, so I'm going with a better tune and hope to nail a low 13 or better, so I'm looking for simple things I can do before that. I plan to get the car running around 11.0:1 AFR (I'm on 94 pump gas btw), turning down the boost to 20-21 (I think I was starting to just push hot air), and shimming the wastegate. What do you recommend to run for tire pressures? Any other tips or tricks?

 

[Nate Crisman]

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That is a sad progression of timeslips, when your best ET of the day is your blown up 1/8mile run. hahahah

 

[Phil1320]

Micheal, I personally don't think a real 14b(no other wheels, no other housings etc)with no nitrous can flow that much air, enough for 350 wheel hp. its just too small.

Dynojets seem to be pretty optimistic compared to Mustang dynos or real world hp calculations. IE, with my 3076r and an early tune I made only a bit more than your quoted numbers with the 14b. The car is WAY WAY faster with that setup than with the 14b.

Go ahead and tune the car better, push the 14b for sure, I know I had fun with mine, but don't expect big numbers out of it if its all 14b and no nitrous.

Considering that pneumo did 324 AWHP on his "old" set up with a 14b....on a Mustang dyno, I would say 335-340 is possible, definitely in FWD form.

 

[YZFR1]

What is the difference in running an external wastegate vs. O2 dump on an internal wastegate with a 14b/16g turbo?

 

[Kevin Jewer]

The internal WG will still have the tendency to blow open because of the lever arm length (and diameter; force equals pressure times area), while an external gate generally doesn't have that problem (it still can with really high back pressure, but air pressure can be applied to the top of the gate to counter act that).

 

[SBstar]

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So as much as I'd like to say she'll be starting in a couple hours I have to head to work. Then I have two 12 hour days Hopefully I'll find time to get more done soon though.

 

[Phil1320]

What is the difference in running an external wastegate vs. O2 dump on an internal wastegate with a 14b/16g turbo?

While the internal gate/external dump works very well with the 14b, the external just makes the boost hold rock solid, in my case anyway. With my internal set at 21 psi, sometimes it would fluctuate between there and 19 or so, and sometimes it would hold rock solid. External is just super consistent.

So as much as I'd like to say she'll be starting in a couple hours I have to head to work. Then I have two 12 hour days Hopefully I'll find time to get more done soon though.

Looks sweet....git er done......

 

[YZFR1]

With my internal set at 21 psi, sometimes it would fluctuate between there and 19 or so, and sometimes it would hold rock solid. External is just super consistent.

That does sound pretty awesome. The only thing i don't like about my 14b is that it can't keep boost in high revs. Not sure if i would go with an external dump though just because i'm still trying to go for that street/sleeper thing. But if i'm not too far from reaching my goal, then what the hack.


Anyways, a little update. I've been meaning to go for that 14b glory for a while now but have encountered an electrical gremling kind of a problem with my old car. Not feeling like giving up on another project car, i went out and found another car just like mine (after a lot of waiting and looking around), same year and same color and everything with 52k miles.

Just need to finish up on some wiring and should be ready to try cranking it soon. Keeping my fingers crossed, really don't feel like having to deal with more electrical issues..

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[SBstar]

Work has been unusually slow for this time of year. It's possible ill get to work on the car tonight. With little track time left for us northern folks is anyone else going to get out this year? 2011 has been somewhat melodramatic although we do have a new "awd" record. Both with and without nitrous! Unfortunately with so many failures it's taken some of the pleasure out of it. Hopefully we can all finish up with some good news. For me 11's, Nate in the 13's, Nate C with a successful nitrous pass at least right!

 

[Nate Crisman]

With little track time left for us northern folks is anyone else going to get out this year? 2011 has been somewhat melodramatic although we do have a new "awd" record. Both with and without nitrous! Unfortunately with so many failures it's taken some of the pleasure out of it. Hopefully we can all finish up with some good news. For me 11's, Nate in the 13's, Nate C with a successful nitrous pass at least right!

I'm planning to hit Etown Oct 15 with the nitrous on full blast 125hp hit to start w/ plans to go 150-175hp if the engine holds together. If a clean pass is in the cards, it should spice up the thread.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Work has been unusually slow for this time of year. It's possible ill get to work on the car tonight. With little track time left for us northern folks is anyone else going to get out this year? 2011 has been somewhat melodramatic although we do have a new "awd" record. Both with and without nitrous! Unfortunately with so many failures it's taken some of the pleasure out of it. Hopefully we can all finish up with some good news. For me 11's, Nate in the 13's, Nate C with a successful nitrous pass at least right!

I started driving her again yesterday, I'm breaking in the new clutch and should be back at the drag strip next Friday, October 7th. I don't think I posted on this thread but last Friday (9 days ago) at the drag strip my clutch started slipping bad in every gear (my MPH was like 77). The old setup was an ACT 2100 with a street disk and Fidanza flywheel which I installed in 2005. The new setup is a South Bend SS pressure plate with a kevlar/feramic disk and an ACT streetlite.

 

[SBstar]

Good news fellas! Glad to hear you will be out at e-town Nate C. I really hope it holds together for ya. Obviously with the system cleaned out now it should. It would be awesome to see a new top dog overall.

Nate that clutch looked awful. Can't wait for results on the new setup.

 

[rhamlinii]

I'm planning to hit Etown Oct 15 with the nitrous on full blast 125hp hit to start w/ plans to go 150-175hp if the engine holds together. If a clean pass is in the cards, it should spice up the thread.

Nate, you may not wnat to hear this. So i'm just going to say it. Please, just use race gas. Stop messing around with e85 and spray. I talked to my Uncle who had a big block OPS car. He uses meth on the motor, and c-16 for nitous and he has 7 stages of spray on his car. He says, it mixes better with gas in his opinion.