The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[SBstar]

Very nice Shane!! Congrats on the new MPH!! A low 1.4x 60' would've put you in the 11.0x range! As you mentioned, get the launch consistent and I think you'll be right on the edge of breaking into the 10s!

Thanks Brandon! I hate what-iffing but the numbers do imply that at least 11.0 was/is possible. The more I've thought about it this morning I think a staging brake might be an important mod for next year, could help me be more consistent.

 

[1qkfwd]

I've been usually doing it on fb, but looks like for the short amount of time you've spent at the track this year you sure have made great progress. I agree that a staging break would help out a lot. It's a fairly inexpensive mod to that should help with consistency.

You plan on any other track outings or dyno tuning?

 

[Phil1320]

Almost 121 is crazy!

Great back up pass.

1.49 & 1.52 are still damn good 60' times but yeah, the low 1.4 would have been key.

Hard to find consistancy when racing at different times of the year, and at different tracks. This is why I always go to a track rental. 6 hours where I can pull into the lane at any time and run. I could run 15 passes with plenty of breaks in between to tweak things.

Either way, great showing this season!

And for comparisons' sake, your race weight came in at 2410.

That's a full 300 or so lbs. heavier than the full race weight of the Extreme Motorsports Talon, and that car had a crazy cage in it as well.

Imagine another 250-300 lbs. lighter!?

Just sayin', if someone wants to take it to the limit, there's plenty left on the table.

You shouldn't be too disappointed. You bettered something just about every trip to the track, and if you didn't, you learned something that helped the next time. My thought was that for an AWD, things would get tough in the 11.1 range. I've been asked how much quicker I might run if I were to get back out there. My reply was 'three-tenths.' So, my guess was 11.19.

You're there with some to spare, so I think you've really used all your tools to the fullest. Be proud!

 

[SBstar]

I've been usually doing it on fb, but looks like for the short amount of time you've spent at the track this year you sure have made great progress. I agree that a staging break would help out a lot. It's a fairly inexpensive mod to that should help with consistency.

You plan on any other track outings or dyno tuning?

It was great progress! I'm very happy with what I did accomplish this year, and honestly it made greater gains then I expected. I knew my goal was 11.37 or better to pass Nate this year, but I never really expected 11.1's at 120+! I really do like the idea of the staging brake for next year, I'm going to be watching classifieds all winter for a killer deal I suppose.

No more track outings, I know there is more in the car and I hate to cut my season short but it just isn't smart or safe to be out there without the proper safety equipment. I took the risk a few times and now it's time to do it right. I do plan on getting it on the dyno, I actually want to set that up somewhat quickly as my friend wants his manifold back within the month.

Almost 121 is crazy!

Great back up pass.

1.49 & 1.52 are still damn good 60' times but yeah, the low 1.4 would have been key.

Hard to find consistancy when racing at different times of the year, and at different tracks. This is why I always go to a track rental. 6 hours where I can pull into the lane at any time and run. I could run 15 passes with plenty of breaks in between to tweak things.

Either way, great showing this season!

And for comparisons' sake, your race weight came in at 2410.

That's a full 300 or so lbs. heavier than the full race weight of the Extreme Motorsports Talon, and that car had a crazy cage in it as well.

Imagine another 250-300 lbs. lighter!?

Just sayin', if someone wants to take it to the limit, there's plenty left on the table.

You shouldn't be too disappointed. You bettered something just about every trip to the track, and if you didn't, you learned something that helped the next time. My thought was that for an AWD, things would get tough in the 11.1 range. I've been asked how much quicker I might run if I were to get back out there. My reply was 'three-tenths.' So, my guess was 11.19.

You're there with some to spare, so I think you've really used all your tools to the fullest. Be proud!

Thanks Phil! After the 119.3 pass I set the goal of hitting 120, but if you had asked me earlier in the year I never expected to get there!

It's going to be a learning process to hitting those mid/low 1.4's consistently. I stumbled into doing it "correctly" 2-3 times. I think it'll be key to maximizing the awd 14b efforts.

I will definitely do a track rental next year! I thought about it this year but after the no-rollbar issues I knew it was a waste to try. For $100 and a full day it seems worth it!

Disappointed a touch from friday night, you always want to end the season on a big high, but not disappointed in the season at all! To have gained nearly a half a second after already running mid 11's on this little turbo was huge! And hitting 120 mph in the awd was really cool. I think if it hadn't been as busy friday night I could have at least gotten a new best ET, plus I missed out on 1-2 passes because I had assumed the track had an air tank. Unfortunately they did, but it wasn't hooked up so I had to run back into town from the track to air my slicks. Silly mistake on my part that probably cost me getting in the lanes while they weren't packed.

11.1's seem like a sticking point now. I've only ran two 11.1x passes along with several 11.2's. It's new territory and breaking through it isn't exactly a walk in the park so far. I know the car can get quite a bit lighter, a built engine would add more power, there are some better hard parts and/or designs that may increase power (full size fmic, better intake setup, etc), so yes there is definitely room on the table for improvements! I am thoroughly convinced an awd can overtake Bucci's time now. But as we said years ago, it's going to take an all out effort by someone who sticks with it. I've managed to stick with it over the years and my setup gets more complex every year so I've gotten the closest yet, and I know there will be others who can do it if they put the time and effort in.


So now the real question is: Will we see a 10 second 14b car this year!
Come on Justin get that little lightweight thing moving!

 

[1SloEvo]

Great info and discussions here! I love coming into this forum and seeing these new posts. Not only are they a good read and good for learning, but it also keeps the wheels turning for coming up with other ideas!

I will be up in Sac on the 13th when Justin is pushing for the record. It's a big CMI event, so track prep should be pretty good.

Justin, with Phil mentioning track rentals, maybe next year you and I can split a track rental day up at Sac, regardless what our setups are at that point!

 

[1qkfwd]

It was great progress! I'm very happy with what I did accomplish this year, and honestly it made greater gains then I expected. I knew my goal was 11.37 or better to pass Nate this year, but I never really expected 11.1's at 120+! I really do like the idea of the staging brake for next year, I'm going to be watching classifieds all winter for a killer deal I suppose.

No more track outings, I know there is more in the car and I hate to cut my season short but it just isn't smart or safe to be out there without the proper safety equipment. I took the risk a few times and now it's time to do it right. I do plan on getting it on the dyno, I actually want to set that up somewhat quickly as my friend wants his manifold back within the month.



Thanks Phil! After the 119.3 pass I set the goal of hitting 120, but if you had asked me earlier in the year I never expected to get there!

It's going to be a learning process to hitting those mid/low 1.4's consistently. I stumbled into doing it "correctly" 2-3 times. I think it'll be key to maximizing the awd 14b efforts.

I will definitely do a track rental next year! I thought about it this year but after the no-rollbar issues I knew it was a waste to try. For $100 and a full day it seems worth it!

Disappointed a touch from friday night, you always want to end the season on a big high, but not disappointed in the season at all! To have gained nearly a half a second after already running mid 11's on this little turbo was huge! And hitting 120 mph in the awd was really cool. I think if it hadn't been as busy friday night I could have at least gotten a new best ET, plus I missed out on 1-2 passes because I had assumed the track had an air tank. Unfortunately they did, but it wasn't hooked up so I had to run back into town from the track to air my slicks. Silly mistake on my part that probably cost me getting in the lanes while they weren't packed.

11.1's seem like a sticking point now. I've only ran two 11.1x passes along with several 11.2's. It's new territory and breaking through it isn't exactly a walk in the park so far. I know the car can get quite a bit lighter, a built engine would add more power, there are some better hard parts and/or designs that may increase power (full size fmic, better intake setup, etc), so yes there is definitely room on the table for improvements! I am thoroughly convinced an awd can overtake Bucci's time now. But as we said years ago, it's going to take an all out effort by someone who sticks with it. I've managed to stick with it over the years and my setup gets more complex every year so I've gotten the closest yet, and I know there will be others who can do it if they put the time and effort in.


So now the real question is: Will we see a 10 second 14b car this year!
Come on Justin get that little lightweight thing moving!

You worked with what you could and made it happen. You also know what you have to work on for next year. You accomplished the hardest part and that's the first part of the track. The rest should be down hill. Slowly lose weight and increase the power as you go. No doubt you will get into the 10s.

Your weight, was that with or without you as a race weight? What's the weight of the car alone??

Great info and discussions here! I love coming into this forum and seeing these new posts. Not only are they a good read and good for learning, but it also keeps the wheels turning for coming up with other ideas!

I will be up in Sac on the 13th when Justin is pushing for the record. It's a big CMI event, so track prep should be pretty good.

Justin, with Phil mentioning track rentals, maybe next year you and I can split a track rental day up at Sac, regardless what our setups are at that point!

Maybe on the rental. Depends how much they want for it.

I'm pressing hard to make the cmi event. As Brandon said track prep should be really good. I know I was able to cut low 1.6s on just first gear burnouts on my other slicks. These M&Hs are stickier. I also swapped over to better coilovers and better front struts.

At least hitting a 10 this year is one of my goals. Ill keep goin back to the track depending on how the weather is and what days the track is open. Gota some loose ends I'm fixing but I should be ready for this last of the year.

 

[SBstar]

Our track does what they call a rental day, essentially it just runs longer and costs more since the rental is called "Rocky's Pit Stop Track Rental" and Rocky's Pit Stop is the name of the little shop at the track that sells t-shirts and racing fuel. Definitely less people there and runs a good 6 hours.

The car alone should be about 2220 since I'm probably at or around 190 dressed out with a helmet on.

It will run 10's, as said, increase the power and lose weight! Gotta drive it too!

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Track rentals are key to making good progress for me. I'm lucky that NED does a rental every wednesday. It's ~105 bucks to get in, first 30 cars on the list get in then they cut it off and call back ups as people bail out. Rarely more than 15-20 cars show up. Gates open at 11, then you have 2 hours before they start to run from 1-5. Slicks only in the right lane, so that stays mint all day. It's the best surface I've ever run on. The only time it gets better is the rental after the NHRA divisional event. Wednesday night is also one of the two street nights, so you can tech in again and run from 6-10 if you're not done yet. That right lane stays pretty good for the first hour or two before the street tires tear it up. NED is in the middle of no where and they can still pull this off every week, so it seems like any decent track should be able to offer something like this.

Congrats again Shane, nice work.

 

[1qkfwd]

Our track does what they call a rental day, essentially it just runs longer and costs more since the rental is called "Rocky's Pit Stop Track Rental" and Rocky's Pit Stop is the name of the little shop at the track that sells t-shirts and racing fuel. Definitely less people there and runs a good 6 hours.

The car alone should be about 2220 since I'm probably at or around 190 dressed out with a helmet on.

It will run 10's, as said, increase the power and lose weight! Gotta drive it too!

See mines 1880lbs with the 6 point in it. That's a good 340lbs difference. Im not sure as Phil stated that its even possible to drop 200-300lbs. I know with some coin I can drop comfortably another 80-100lbs off my car. But that's a lexan front, light weight front brakes, tube front end, and a lighter rear axle setup.

You are on the lighter rear hatch right??

Track rentals are key to making good progress for me. I'm lucky that NED does a rental every wednesday. It's ~105 bucks to get in, first 30 cars on the list get in then they cut it off and call back ups as people bail out. Rarely more than 15-20 cars show up. Gates open at 11, then you have 2 hours before they start to run from 1-5. Slicks only in the right lane, so that stays mint all day. It's the best surface I've ever run on. The only time it gets better is the rental after the NHRA divisional event. Wednesday night is also one of the two street nights, so you can tech in again and run from 6-10 if you're not done yet. That right lane stays pretty good for the first hour or two before the street tires tear it up. NED is in the middle of no where and they can still pull this off every week, so it seems like any decent track should be able to offer something like this.

Congrats again Shane, nice work.

Im so jealous. We have nothing like this around here. The local track can barely afford to stay open as is. Maybe sac has this option and I don't know about it, but that's still a good 2+ hour drive.

 

[Phil1320]

Things like Brake Man set ups front and rear and 1 piece carbon fiber driveshafts can start to whittle the weight of an AWD car down. Retail on the above at one point totalled about $7000.


Either way, it's a given that the AWD cars will never match or come close to the FWD cars.

However, with Shane's couple of 11.1 passes, 10's are possible without having every last bit of lightweight stuff.

Tube front end is to me the extreme reach for weight reduction. That's for everyone else, my car is too pretty for that and I like to turn corners too much.

Our track rentals run from 10 am - 4 pm with about 70-85 cars.


It's the only way I'd ever go back to the track, test n tunes have been a thing of the past for a long time. Trailering a race car to the track(when it's not 15 mins. away) to make 3 passes is a waste for me.

 

[1qkfwd]

Things like Brake Man set ups front and rear and 1 piece carbon fiber driveshafts can start to whittle the weight of an AWD car down. Retail on the above at one point totalled about $7000.


Either way, it's a given that the AWD cars will never match or come close to the FWD cars.

However, with Shane's couple of 11.1 passes, 10's are possible without having every last bit of lightweight stuff.

I agree. Me personally, im at the point that I need to spread my finances to be able to afford all the above stuff. I know the brakes alone are a huge chunk for about 30lbs of weight savings.

There is no doubt that Shanes car can whittle its way into the 10s. If on the 121 pass the boost was 22-23lbs just raising the boost and adjusting the tune would net a good 1-2mph overall. If it goes over to the forced guys and gets dyno time itll have a great tune on it to base line for the next outing. The car's running low 11s and I believe it to be conservative as it sits.

 

[Phil1320]

Well, maybe you won't need the crazy $ stuff. If you can get solid 10's without those things, that is. And we know that's possible.

My car weighed 2255 last weigh in. I was shooting for 2100.

I won't be heading back to the strip without a rollbar, so some of my weight reduction will only nullify that, before I see any weight advantage.

 

[SBstar]

Thanks for the compliments Kevin!

Justin, I know there is weight that I've refused to remove off the car, the side skirts, drip rails, etc. come to mind. I do have that carbon fiber hatch now. Getting lighter is going to be expensive, and the same as Phil adding the rollbar will offset much of what I will be able to do. Off the top of my head things that could be done/purchased.

Front crossmember bar, lexan windows, fuel cell setup (followed by cutting out floor), tubular bars for rear (mustache brace, lower control arms), tubular rear subframe and/or tubular front k-member, tubular front end, lightweight brakes, carbon fiber/fiberglass doors, and the list goes on.

What will really happen, probably not a whole lot. The few things I will be able to do will probably even me out with the addition of the rollbar.

Our Test-N-Tunes are sporadic, some nights you can get in a lot of passes, and some like Friday night you may only get 2-3. As Phil said it makes those nights feel like a waste. Takes quite a bit of fuel to tow the car on a trailer 1.5 hrs each way, pay the entry for one racer and one spectator (my wife), and only get that in.

I did not glance at the boost gauge all night, I have't touched the boost controller so it's probably right around the 23 it would hit at the shootout. There may be more there, maybe not. I know there is more in the tune yet. I will be going to Force but I will probably not do any tuning. This is more to satisfy curiosity and see what it put down currently. The only reason I'd do any tuning is just to see what I had left in this setup. Next season I will be switching to V3 and speed density so I'll be starting from scratch tuning again, but at least have numbers to shoot for. I do believe my current state of tuning is conservative but I have an old stock motor to worry about.

Money is overly tight, I like having a list of things I want and maybe even plan to do, but right now it's not looking great for getting even all the safety stuff done by next spring. I'm being optimistic in that I'll come up with it and have it ready to go.

 

[Long Duk Dong]

Got a new video from a friend who was at the track:

Congratulations!!! That is very impressive. I assume it is still loaded with all of the accessories? I bet most folks don't see that coming at all.

I agree. Me personally, im at the point that I need to spread my finances to be able to afford all the above stuff. I know the brakes alone are a huge chunk for about 30lbs of weight savings.

There is no doubt that Shanes car can whittle its way into the 10s. If on the 121 pass the boost was 22-23lbs just raising the boost and adjusting the tune would net a good 1-2mph overall. If it goes over to the forced guys and gets dyno time itll have a great tune on it to base line for the next outing. The car's running low 11s and I believe it to be conservative as it sits.

First congrats on your new times. I find small turbos very interesting and have done some stuff with both large (88 T4 - 106mm T6) single turbos and small (38mm T3 - 57mm T3) twin turbos on both V6-(Buick 3.8, 3800 and Chev 4.3) and V8 cars. I currently have a small 16G and a large 16G. I am considering swapping one of them onto my 4G63 Colt just for shiggles. It currently runs a 60-mm Garrett. How much total timing and what octane are you running at 23lbs of boost with the 14b and is that through the stock throttle body and intake manifold? Again, congratulations on the new times. I love seeing people doing what most say can't be done.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Thanks for sharing the video! Nicely done

That is a sweet vid! Lots of hoppity hop hop out of the hole though...

Shes pretty

Takes off like a jackrabbit hahaha.

Congrats Steve!

Congratulations!!! That is very impressive.

Thanks again, guys. I talked about it on FB and realized I didn't mention it here, when I got to the track, my slicks were way overinflated, so I wasted quite a few runs bouncing like that (filled them cold at home, were up at 18-20psi after a pass). I also realized before the last pass that I never cranked the struts up to stiff, were still on my soft street settings, so that didn't help either. Shane, after seeing your latest gains with the FP manifold, I'm tempted to throw mine on and get it back out one last time.

I assume it is still loaded with all of the accessories? I bet most folks don't see that coming at all.

It's got some weight reduction - no HVAC, carbon hood, alum bumper supports, no sound deadener, no back seats, Corbeau fronts. Still has all lights/wipers, mostly complete interior from the seats forward, uncut doors, full 3" exhaust, all stock glass. Also has an aftermarket power sunroof and a mild steel 8pt cage. There's plenty I could do to remove weight if I wanted to, but I like keeping the car streetable. HVAC was removed by the previous owner, I'll most likely put it back in if I can find a donor car.

Here's an in-car vid:

In-car vid

 

[Phil1320]

Thanks again, guys. I talked about it on FB and realized I didn't mention it here, when I got to the track, my slicks were way overinflated, so I wasted quite a few runs bouncing like that (filled them cold at home, were up at 18-20psi after a pass). I also realized before the last pass that I never cranked the struts up to stiff, were still on my soft street settings, so that didn't help either. Shane, after seeing your latest gains with the FP manifold, I'm tempted to throw mine on and get it back out one last time.



It's got some weight reduction - no HVAC, carbon hood, alum bumper supports, no sound deadener, no back seats, Corbeau fronts. Still has all lights/wipers, mostly complete interior from the seats forward, uncut doors, full 3" exhaust, all stock glass. Also has an aftermarket power sunroof and a mild steel 8pt cage. There's plenty I could do to remove weight if I wanted to, but I like keeping the car streetable. HVAC was removed by the previous owner, I'll most likely put it back in if I can find a donor car.

Here's an in-car vid:

In-car vid

Well that explains that!

One vote from me for: bolt FP mani on and hit it once more.

 

[1SloEvo]

I second the "install FP mani and Ricky Bobby that car!"

 

[Phil1320]

Just wanted to say my friend with the Eclipse GSX AT 14b car has been working some every day and the car is coming along. Target date to hit the track is about 2.5 weeks out and it'll be a thrash to get it done. He and I have dug into the parts bin and there's only a few missing links. It's received a decent diet so far, but, no idea on weight yet. It won't be a superlight, but, I'd guess the car might come in around 2450-2500 for starters. Updates to follow.

 

[1qkfwd]

Well, maybe you won't need the crazy $ stuff. If you can get solid 10's without those things, that is. And we know that's possible.

My car weighed 2255 last weigh in. I was shooting for 2100.

I won't be heading back to the strip without a rollbar, so some of my weight reduction will only nullify that, before I see any weight advantage.

I know it will to. Time will tell. Found the weak link and getting it back right now.

2100lbs is so super light for an awd car. Id be curious as to how low you can get one. Maybe within 200-250lbs of a fwd weight??

First congrats on your new times. I find small turbos very interesting and have done some stuff with both large (88 T4 - 106mm T6) single turbos and small (38mm T3 - 57mm T3) twin turbos on both V6-(Buick 3.8, 3800 and Chev 4.3) and V8 cars. I currently have a small 16G and a large 16G. I am considering swapping one of them onto my 4G63 Colt just for shiggles. It currently runs a 60-mm Garrett. How much total timing and what octane are you running at 23lbs of boost with the 14b and is that through the stock throttle body and intake manifold? Again, congratulations on the new times. I love seeing people doing what most say can't be done.

Im running stock N/A tb and an extrude honed 1G intake. Also running Q16 gas

Thanks again, guys. I talked about it on FB and realized I didn't mention it here, when I got to the track, my slicks were way overinflated, so I wasted quite a few runs bouncing like that (filled them cold at home, were up at 18-20psi after a pass). I also realized before the last pass that I never cranked the struts up to stiff, were still on my soft street settings, so that didn't help either. Shane, after seeing your latest gains with the FP manifold, I'm tempted to throw mine on and get it back out one last time.

DO IT!!!!!!!!

Just wanted to say my friend with the Eclipse GSX AT 14b car has been working some every day and the car is coming along. Target date to hit the track is about 2.5 weeks out and it'll be a thrash to get it done. He and I have dug into the parts bin and there's only a few missing links. It's received a decent diet so far, but, no idea on weight yet. It won't be a superlight, but, I'd guess the car might come in around 2450-2500 for starters. Updates to follow.

Good news. I like hearing another car going into the mix. 1G or 2G??

 

[Phil1320]

Justin- I'd say 200-250 is probably it. To get within 200 of the FWD would be the extreme end of weight reduction on the AWD.

It's a 1991 GSX. Yeah, if all things are healthy, it should run well. The car was recently purchased, so the history is vague. The car will run E whatever for fuel and will be SD with tuning via link. He has experience with link and has tuned much crazier set ups. So even if everything isn't optimal, we're hoping the car can touch 11's at it's first outing. But, we all know, it's not always a simple task, so, we won't get ahead of ourselves.

 

[1SloEvo]

Regardless, the weight Justin is at with a 6 pt cage is ridiculous. I hope I can get my car that light!

I will be dropping the motor off Thursday or Friday for machine work, assembly and balancing/blueprinting. I will also be getting the head decked and pressure checked! Hope it will be ready to pick up in a couple weeks!

 

[1qkfwd]

Justin- I'd say 200-250 is probably it. To get within 200 of the FWD would be the extreme end of weight reduction on the AWD.

It's a 1991 GSX. Yeah, if all things are healthy, it should run well. The car was recently purchased, so the history is vague. The car will run E whatever for fuel and will be SD with tuning via link. He has experience with link and has tuned much crazier set ups. So even if everything isn't optimal, we're hoping the car can touch 11's at it's first outing. But, we all know, it's not always a simple task, so, we won't get ahead of ourselves.

So just a guess would but Shane's car a little over 2300lbs. Just a guess of course.

Well keep us updated. Is it possible for yet another 11 sec 14b car this year??

Regardless, the weight Justin is at with a 6 pt cage is ridiculous. I hope I can get my car that light!

I will be dropping the motor off Thursday or Friday for machine work, assembly and balancing/blueprinting. I will also be getting the head decked and pressure checked! Hope it will be ready to pick up in a couple weeks!

And it's only getting lighter

 

[Phil1320]

I forget where Shane posted his weight/s.

I think I remember him posting 2420 as his total race weight. So, his car should be in the 2240 lb. range I think.

My car weighed in at 2255 lbs. with about 4 gallons of gas in the tank.

Yes, another 14b tipping into the 11's we hope will be the end result of the track visit.

 

[SBstar]

Norwalk's scale had race weight at 2430, Martin had it at 2410. So the car's weight should come in between 2220-2240 w/out driver. I think Justin was referring to a potential race weight w/driver when he said 2300 though.

Steve, here's another vote for putting your fp mani on and running the car again

 

[1qkfwd]

Well 2300lbs with driver and a 6-point to be realistic. Cage should weigh between 60-80lbs depends how you do it. Mines close to 80lbs as a 6-point.