The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Phil1320]

Its all in finding the right combo. Joe had it all figured out on the fwd. I was just trying to use that as a starting point but ran across all the confusion. Its ok I can say from experience the awd trans is slower than the fwd setup on this lower powered setup. The 16g did handled it pretty good.

Now I got a handle on things and just need to to get back to moving forward. Swapping back to a fwd setup and gonna continue where I left off with that.

Sacramento is coming very very soon.

Well, being that you decided to build a FWD car, why not model it after the quickest car ever. Makes alot of sense. The only thing you have yet to try is the A2W I/C.

However, I think consistant track visits is all you need.

Even if you match Joe's car to a T, there are still all the other variables:

- obviously, elevation

- are you driving as well as him?

- track prep or lack thereof - and this one is huge

- suspension set up

- aero/drag

And there's more. So, as a reference point, it makes some sense. But, beyond that, I don't see any benefit.

Pretty much why I sold my Laser. Just seemed boring to me to put all that effort in to travel down a road that's been travelled already. I'd rather break down barriers with the disadvantages that AWD carries with 14b power, no need to list them.

And, Shane is already at the ET that I figured I could reach, so I'm not 100% sure I even want to make any more passes. Between the two of you, there should be another 10 second 14b effort at a minimum. Sometimes living vicariously is enough.

I'm hoping I can have my motor rebuilt and running around mid October or so. Hoping to be ready to hit the track again early November, if not a little earlier! Got a few things going on to drop a little more weight in the mean time, so hopefully a little more power, less weight, and better driving will make some significant jumps in ET!

Excited to see all the talk about Joe's setup and different ideas. You can't go without at least reading over the record holder's setup, but like Phil said, most of us will have to make our own path as well, as each setup is going to have some things that work better and some that don't!

That would be sweet. Would like to see you in the low 12s this season to set up for solid 11s next year.

And, again, without a doubt, Joe's car should be the 'model' to build from, moreso for you FWD guys as everything he's done would pertain to your cars. Suspension, transmission/gearing etc. Ultimately, it's process of elimination. And, it takes time. If I had a dragstrip 13 miles away,ike when I lived in Maryland, you bet I'd have 200-300 passes a year. But, I don't, so I don't. I should be trailering a friend to the strip in October. Maybe that will fire me up for next year.

I don't air personal business here at all. But, in case anyone is wondering, I had the original 14b come apart in Oct. 2010. I pulled the engine and disassembled everything. Then, I had some major life changes that are ongoing, and I haven't had that monster amount of time to devote to it's reassembly. And, yes, the Archer cars have taken some time as well.

 

[SBstar]

I know I'm guilty of just following the path others laid out! But, you have to find your own ways of improving on things, or at least testing out new ideas. But, in alot of ways I like that we've proved what I said a long time ago, copying what has been proven is usually the best way to go fast! From there you need to find small changes for new advantages.

Recently I've had some fun reading through old TampaBayDSM forum postings from Joe Bucci and Mike who was a partner in the project early on. I found this little blast from the past posted very early on. I had to use a web archive to actually get ahold of the video so since I did all that work I figured I'd upload it to youtube. I found it kind of fun and entertaining, yes it looks like it was filmed with a potato, it was 2003!

The Birth of Project Goodwill - YouTube

 

[Phil1320]

Not saying anything bad about following a proven path. Just saying that trying to follow it years after, might be different. Might not be the same path it was for someone else. Result might not be the same. And, do you want to try and match someone's performance, just edge it out, or blow it out of the water? I know what my intent would be.

 

[1qkfwd]

I was just using Joes car as a starting point. What I didn't know I either figured out or tested it out on my own. From here I do plan on changing stuff out and the car pretty much wont resemble Joes car much. One plan is Sub 2000lb weight with driver. Its more than doable. Now its getting to the point its gonna start costing.


Shane I spent a good 2 hours on my phone reading through post on TampaDsm. Really good stuff on there. And that video, Just wow!!! Blast from the past for sure. Its cool to see how it all started and even cooler that Joe got video of it all. In a sense it kinda makes me not wanna reset the 14b record but Id feel more honored in doing so.

 

[SBstar]

Not saying anything bad about following a proven path. Just saying that trying to follow it years after, might be different. Might not be the same path it was for someone else. Result might not be the same. And, do you want to try and match someone's performance, just edge it out, or blow it out of the water? I know what my intent would be.

Truth, two exact setups aren't necessarily going to produce the same results! It's a struggle to figure out what worked perfectly for someone and what didn't. You take what they learned and expand on it! That's what breaks records imho.

I was just using Joes car as a starting point. What I didn't know I either figured out or tested it out on my own. From here I do plan on changing stuff out and the car pretty much wont resemble Joes car much. One plan is Sub 2000lb weight with driver. Its more than doable. Now its getting to the point its gonna start costing.


Shane I spent a good 2 hours on my phone reading through post on TampaDsm. Really good stuff on there. And that video, Just wow!!! Blast from the past for sure. Its cool to see how it all started and even cooler that Joe got video of it all. In a sense it kinda makes me not wanna reset the 14b record but Id feel more honored in doing so.

Exactly! Use Joe's setup as a starting point, and expand on it. Figure out what worked for him, and what you can use to produce even better results! The hard part is figuring out what to improve, but that's where money and R&D come in unfortunately.

For me, I followed Leon, Phil, and Nate with a little bit of Joe mixed in. I've picked pieces out of each setup and used a few of my own little things. So far it's worked, but if I had the money there are some things I'd be changing and expanding on a lot further!

Project Goodwill was/is a great story! Joe took that car a long ways and it's neat to follow it's progression. Honestly though, I don't think beating his records is going to taint any of that. If anything it does him a service that we still care about the record enough to be excited about trying to beat it!

The same can be said for all the "old guys" who worked at setting the 14b records back in the day, and the few who are still around...

 

[Phil1320]

Well, I got my Talon, Oct. '96. The February '97 issue of Turbo Magazine featured Marc Hallman's Talon touting it as the stock turbo record holder at 12.57. By that time I had only made 3 passes down the strip, bone stock. So, my best ET was 14.85. I immediately wanted to shoot for that number. At season open 1997, I ran 14.50. I hit my first 12, a 12.95, in Oct. '97. I closed the year out with a 12.82, and an unofficial 12.76. Not bad for my first year of chasing. But, since other guys got in the mix, Hallman's 12.57 was passed before I got the chance. Basically, another .5 ahead was where I was finally able to meet my goal. Following, a few guys were into the 11's, and then came Joe out of left field with what was probably the lightest dsm to ever hit the strip to that date. The rest is history...

 

[1SloEvo]

Wow, can't believe you've owned your car almost 17 years. That's pretty crazy!

Excited to get mine back up and running after seeing the video of the start of Project Goodwill and hearing about the start and journey of other cars!

 

[1990AWD]

haha October of '96 I was starting kindergarten.

 

[1SloEvo]

^^^ that is scary!

 

[1qkfwd]

I just started high school in 96. Little did I know I was 3-4 years away from owning my first n/a Dsm.

 

[Dsmkauai]

I'm almost there with you bro I got my first eclipse in 98-99!!

 

[Phil1320]

Wow, can't believe you've owned your car almost 17 years. That's pretty crazy!

Excited to get mine back up and running after seeing the video of the start of Project Goodwill and hearing about the start and journey of other cars!

Yep, next month is 17 years. It is crazy. All the talk about paths put me in a nostalgic mood. So, I decided to abbreviate my 'path.' Now, the question is, 'Am I continuing on this path?''

I've got some local motivation, and a couple guys here want to see me back out I think. I will have one day a week here soon to devote to car work. So, running it all through my head now and will make a decision asap. Otherwise, I'll miss 2014 too.

Yeah, the catalogged journey of Project Goodwill definitely gets the juices flowing.

Well, hope you get out there soon....

haha October of '96 I was starting kindergarten.

Wow.....

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

First grade in 96

 

[Phil1320]

I just started high school in 96. Little did I know I was 3-4 years away from owning my first n/a Dsm.

You young guns....

1996 was an important year for imports and especially DSMs.

As I've stated many times, that import drag event held at MIR was the start.

Even though DSMs were only a few years from their demise, I think '97-'01 were the 'hot' years to be in the mix. Sure, there had already been several DSM shootouts, but they were small relative to what the late 90's turnouts were.

On the flipside, this was also the last year that the Eagle Talon competed in professional road racing on a full term basis.

As much as many think DSMs were all about drag racing, road racing came first and is what garnered all the notoriety for these cars from as early on as April, 1989.

 

[SBstar]

Love the nostalgia stuff. My first DSM wasn't bought until 2003! And it was a 420a 2g at that.

 

[Phil1320]

I'm almost there with you bro I got my first eclipse in 98-99!!

As they were coming out of production......

There are certainly guys that have had their dsms right out of the gate from summer-fall 1989. However alot of them have moved on. I'm sure there's still some out there. I had bought my VF4 from it's original owner(1991.)

Love the nostalgia stuff. My first DSM wasn't bought until 2003! And it was a 420a 2g at that.

Heck yeah. Nothing wrong with 420a. It's actually a solid motor minus it's few common issues.

2003 huh? Wow. Just for your reference, I was at 12.00 that year, best trap speed 113.1.

 

[1SloEvo]

My first one wasn't until early 2009, after I got rid of my built Evo 9.

 

[SBstar]

As they were coming out of production......

There are certainly guys that have had their dsms right out of the gate from summer-fall 1989. However alot of them have moved on. I'm sure there's still some out there. I had bought my VF4 from it's original owner(1991.)



Heck yeah. Nothing wrong with 420a. It's actually a solid motor minus it's few common issues.

2003 huh? Wow. Just for your reference, I was at 12.00 that year, best trap speed 113.1.

I still dream about getting another 420a and chasing down their turbo record too. Too bad I can't afford one project, let alone two!

 

[Phil1320]

My first one wasn't until early 2009, after I got rid of my built Evo 9.

Wow, EVO before DSM.

I still dream about getting another 420a and chasing down their turbo record too. Too bad I can't afford one project, let alone two!

That's a task. Bullett had that in the bag had he not forgotten to turn on the switch for the A2W.

If I was to concentrate on anything else in the drag race world, I would choose a superlight NA 4g63. Unfortunately, the ET would be relatively 'slow' when compared with the average DSM, along with the cost being very high, even relative to my current awd 14b stuff. But, it's the ultimate 4g63 challenge to me. And, imagine how much lighter an NA fwd car would be than a turbo car. Properly set up, I bet 1.5 60's would be possible. But, that's for some other thread...

 

[1qkfwd]

If I was to concentrate on anything else in the drag race world, I would choose a superlight NA 4g63. Unfortunately, the ET would be relatively 'slow' when compared with the average DSM, along with the cost being very high, even relative to my current awd 14b stuff. But, it's the ultimate 4g63 challenge to me. And, imagine how much lighter an NA fwd car would be than a turbo car. Properly set up, I bet 1.5 60's would be possible. But, that's for some other thread...

My fwd chasing the 14b record was my first Dsm. Started out as an N/A 2.0. Ran high 16s at our track. Many others ran 15s. Before I started chasing this record I really got into wanting to do an N/A build. I have a bunch if parts gathered just for such occasion. Who knows maybe ill give that a stab and see if I can break into the 13s maybe even 12s.

 

[Phil1320]

My fwd chasing the 14b record was my first Dsm. Started out as an N/A 2.0. Ran high 16s at our track. Many others ran 15s. Before I started chasing this record I really got into wanting to do an N/A build. I have a bunch if parts gathered just for such occasion. Who knows maybe ill give that a stab and see if I can break into the 13s maybe even 12s.

Do it up. I'll never have the time to devote to something like that. Would be cool though. If anything were ever to happen to the engine in #34, I'd consider a high comp build. Planning to install the exhaust header for next year.

 

[1qkfwd]

Do it up. I'll never have the time to devote to something like that. Would be cool though. If anything were ever to happen to the engine in #34, I'd consider a high comp build. Planning to install the exhaust header for next year.

Lol one build at a time. But the wheels are still turning in my head on the great creation I could do. We have so many options on displacement and head choices.

Other Dsm guys always wonder why when I'm at the track I'm conversating with the N/A Honda crowd

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I'm thinking with the exception of the cams, intake and exhaust manifolds.. there are a lot of parts at your disposal already available to get after it. Go 2.1L and turn some serious rpm to move the air you need to pull a tin can.

 

[Phil1320]

Lol one build at a time. But the wheels are still turning in my head on the great creation I could do. We have so many options on displacement and head choices.

Other Dsm guys always wonder why when I'm at the track I'm conversating with the N/A Honda crowd

Oh boy...you have fun with that. I'll just leave that alone. I certainly wouldn't be looking for any 'pointers' from the Honda clan.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I don't poke fun at NA 4 bangers that have trapped higher to date than I have (with a turbo) on nearly the same displacement just because of the badge.. That is completely writing off folks like Chris Miller, Tony Palo, Norris Prayoonto, etc.

There are plenty of clowns in this community too.