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The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

Posted by Phil1320, Nov 25, 2009

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  1. 1SloEvo

    1SloEvo Proven Member

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    Keep in mind, that setup still holds the hp record number from what I have seen. And it was awhp and on a mustang dyno. That's why I said it depends on how hard you push it.
     
  2. SBstar

    SBstar Proven Member

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    I'm 6 foot, so yes a little taller. I'm not jacked by any means but I do carry some muscle and have a larger frame (I wear x-large shirts to accommodate my wide shoulders).

    I can see your frustration there on the 10 second slip. There does seem to be something missing. The 60' "should" be good enough, the weight is lower, and the mph says the HP is there. It appears to be something about where you're making the power vs. where Joe was...maybe?

    In my world it's frustrating to see my 1/8th nearly on par with his 10.9 run only because my 60' is 2 tenths quicker then his was, and yet my 1/4 is still nearly 2 tenths slower!

    I hear ya! And yes he did make excellent power. But, there have been a couple "full weight" 14b cars in the mid/high 12's already I believe. As I said the definition of full weight is up in the air.
     

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  3. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    Try being 5' 9" and having to wear XL in new form. Once they shrink Its like wearing a medium :coy:

    It almost has to be a different power band or......... that he was on shorter slick and somehow managed to get it to hook up.
     

    3K  0

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  4. YZFR1

    YZFR1 Proven Member

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    By full weight, i meant no weight reduction of any sort or at least not on purpose. I'm pretty sure the car i have now weights as much or more than stock because of the cage.

    Anyways, right before i took a 7 year long break from racing and even hardly driving any cars, i ran my 14b at 17 psi to a 13.4@99 sometime December 2005. I only hope i'm not getting any slower :coy: but i can certainly tell after so much time i'm a little rusty driving cars.

    I think mid 12's on street tires might be a good realistic goal for me to shoot for. :thumb:
     
    YZFR1

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    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  5. Steve93Talon

    Steve93Talon Proven Member

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    My old car that went 12.12 @ 112 was pretty much full weight, aside from AC removed. It was also a very simple setup - hacked 1G MAF, 5 knob AFC, 3KGT pump, full 2.5" 2600 w/street disc, HKS 272s, Dejon big SMIC, on 205/55 16 street tires. I was running VP103 for fuel, the car also went 12.4 @ 108 on straight 93.
     

    Drag Race Build 1K  24

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  6. SBstar

    SBstar Proven Member

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    You need to buy better shirts that don't shrink :p But yes I have the same problem.

    So, I've been holding back on ya a little. Look through project goodwill. The pics from the "final" day on the 14b w/out nitrous appear to have the same wheels and tires as the pics previous to them. I believe Joe was still on the 24.5x8 slicks. I believe he switched from the 22" slick to a 24.5 prior to switching again to the 26" once the nitrous or 16g was on the car.

    Goodwill9

    Goodwill7

    Compare the pics in those links to the pics on his later website.

    http://www.joebucci.com/Pictures.htm

    Definitely looks like there are wider slicks on the car later, which leads me to believe the 26"s were the x10's added after the 14b. I could be wrong, not an expert and judging slick size by pics! And clearly he changed the wheels to accomodate the wider slicks as well.
     

    4K  7

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  7. Nate Crisman

    Nate Crisman Proven Member

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    My galant vr4 went 12.0@113 on 14b, that was a full leather interior street car with power glass & sunroof. Basic ac/cruise/abs delete and removal of the metal bumper supports likely brought the curb weight down to standard 1g awd weight range.

    I'm pretty sure bottom 12's @ 111-113 are in the ballpark "max potential" for a full weight 1g awd with typical 14b power range.
     

    689  0

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  8. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    Ya I saw that in the pics. I did talk to joe a bit via MSG on fb. He made the switch over to bigger slicks towards the end of project goodwill. He said it was when he added the scatter shield is when he swapped to the awd trans. That's also when he upped the slick size. But he didn't make any mention of running a 24" slick which it clearly has always looked like in those pics.

    I can see the 24.5 giving him the added mph an ET umph at the beginning, and then running out of steam at the top end.

    Another thing joe made mention was the trans swap also made the shift points come sooner. Which for me it did. Fwd/24.5s I was shifting out of first almost right at the 60' marker. Now with the awd/26" combo it's way before the 60' mark at the same 7000 rpm shift. Buuuut....... Joe did run 22" slicks on the fwd which explains me having the huge mph gap when I Went to sac on the 24.5s.

    I'm gonna mount up some 24.5s for my next trip to sac. I'll see how those do first. That might be the missing link that was never made mention. And I have combed through most joe's post on the forums, Even his local forum. There is no mention of a 24.5" slick.
     

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  9. SBstar

    SBstar Proven Member

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    I know there is no mention but looking at the pics they definitely don't look like 22" ones once you start seeing better side profile pics.
     

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  10. SBstar

    SBstar Proven Member

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    Ok, so this slick size question had me doing some searching. I ended up wandering around on TampBayDSM forums. I ended up finding a post that answered a question that we've had for a while.

    So Joe did run a 10.841 @ 126.63

    It was "without nitrous" but with the nitrous kit on the car.

    That bears the question, does it count as a no nitrous pass? If it doesn't, should Nate's time also be pulled from the list?

    I know there are some strong opinions on this so let's try to keep it civil.

    Personally I'm kind of at a crossroads with my own opinion.
     

    4K  7

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  11. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    Well for some reason joe did not update his 14b time to the 10.84@126 on Dsm times or did he make mention that it was a no nos record. Question is, why??

    The mph seems more on par for the time compared to what I've ran. But why the low mph on the 10.87 run.

    I will not install a kit on my car as I have had in the past a leaky nos solenoid and would leak out the fogger. I would not go as far as to try and discredit someone for having a kit in there car. Like Nate, he knows the integrity of his system and his passes.
     

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  12. SBstar

    SBstar Proven Member

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    Well it used to have that number on dsmtimes. It was changed after we had the discussion and Joe said he didn't remember directly and that it may have been a typo. Now after finding this thread, I don't think it was a typo. There is a clear earlier thread about the 10.87 from September 05.

    You'll find that 10.84 time on his website as well.
     

    4K  7

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  13. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    Yea I've seen the time on the site and I also remember when it was brought up as maybe a typo. Someone called him out stating that his time was in fact the 10.84@126. That should be the time we are after. Bumps the time up but I'm ok with that.
     

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  14. SBstar

    SBstar Proven Member

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    It's only .03 anyways, if the record is passed up it will probably be by more then that anyways. :rocks:
     

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  15. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    That's my goal. I'd like to see another tenth bracket. Even if its 10.79

    I'd be interested in seeing the slips for joes 10.84@126. The 60' and 1/8 mile.
     

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  16. SBstar

    SBstar Proven Member

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    I asked, he said he hasn't been able to find them. Guess we have to pass him up so we don't have to worry about it!
     

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  17. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    Your absolutely right, "WE" do need to pass him up. Set the bar just a tad more outta reach.

    The good thing is, more of us are running so with different setups it gives some good learning curves.
     

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  18. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    Found some very interesting stuff from Joe B. and post he made. It's been clear in in 3 different post he made that he did in fact run the 10.84@126 with no nos. No slip or not, I say that correction needs to be made. I'll post up the quotes when I get to my computer.
     

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  19. Phil1320

    Phil1320 Proven Member

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    Either way it's only .03, not .3

    As far as NOS goes, at this point it doesn't matter much to me...

    ....but, if there's a nozzle/system in the car, it's a NOS pass. At least that's how it was viewed by many back when I was in the thick of things.

    And, being that Joe was spraying, or trying to, on the same night the 10.84 pass was run....hmmmm....that's questionable...

    Just random thoughts. I truly don't care which number it is. I always thought it was 10.84.

    So, that means that high mph for the 14b is 126.6 then? Since the 10.87 was 'only' 123.

    What's your high mph Justin? 125.x?
     
    Phil1320

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  20. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    My highest mph was 126.2.
     

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  21. SBstar

    SBstar Proven Member

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    The problem I have is that I'm trusting of guys like Joe and Nate. I believe they are being truthful when they say the kit was there, but it wasn't used. Unfortunately if someone else comes in and says the same, I'm going to have a hard time trusting them. So how do I justify trusting one person, but not another?

    For the record I fully believe Joe made a 10.84 no nitrous pass, just as I fully believe Nate made an 11.37 no nitrous pass.

    I will personally think of 10.841 as "the record".

    However, I fully understand the flip side of the argument. There are no slips to back it up (Joe says he can't find them) and he admits there was a kit on the car during the pass.

    This brings me to another of my issues. I trust English ran his 11.7xx because I trust him. But, there have been several statements made of 11 second passes that I do not trust and have not counted as legit. If you look through this thread you'll find some claims actually. One even claimed he had already ran 10's.

    But, I think when you have a good name in the community it's going to be trusted alot easier then someone who just pops in.
     

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  22. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    I agree with all that Shane. For future, any claims need to be backed up with the slips from that day. NOS in the car really shouldn't be geared towards any "RECORD" attempts. Rules out any problems.

    So I got to reading on TampaDsm, and found some very useful info. From what I read Joe didn't even have the awd trans in his car when he set the 14b record. Amongst all the confusion, when he said he upped slick size he went from 22" slicks to the 24.5" slicks. Then with the awd trans (which came after the 14b) he then set himself on the 26" slicks.

    So I jumped the gun on the awd trans swap. It has shown slower ET and slower mph on the 14B. But with the 16G the results where more promising as the 12-14mph difference between the two. So now I need to figure out what im going to do since I sold the 2G fwd trans back to the guy I bought it from and he has now put it to use.

    Heres some quotes that Joe made on Tampa Dsm


    But then he says this and note the dates that I highlighted in the previous quotes. Why whould he switch to 26s on the fwd trans?? Did he swap the AWD trans in earlier but then installed a built one later date?? Im a bit lost.

     

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  23. Phil1320

    Phil1320 Proven Member

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    I say it's all too damn confusing and isn't super relevant, well, at least to me as an AWD guy.

    Pave your own path is what I say.

    Following someone else's path might lead to instant success to a point, but, as showcased here maybe, it might send you on a wild goose chase.
     
    Phil1320

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  24. 1qkfwd

    1qkfwd DSM Wiseman

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    Its all in finding the right combo. Joe had it all figured out on the fwd. I was just trying to use that as a starting point but ran across all the confusion. Its ok I can say from experience the awd trans is slower than the fwd setup on this lower powered setup. The 16g did handled it pretty good.

    Now I got a handle on things and just need to to get back to moving forward. Swapping back to a fwd setup and gonna continue where I left off with that.

    Sacramento is coming very very soon.
     

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  25. 1SloEvo

    1SloEvo Proven Member

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    I'm hoping I can have my motor rebuilt and running around mid October or so. Hoping to be ready to hit the track again early November, if not a little earlier! Got a few things going on to drop a little more weight in the mean time, so hopefully a little more power, less weight, and better driving will make some significant jumps in ET!

    Excited to see all the talk about Joe's setup and different ideas. You can't go without at least reading over the record holder's setup, but like Phil said, most of us will have to make our own path as well, as each setup is going to have some things that work better and some that don't!
     

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