talon Vs. eclipse rear brakes

[chaye]

Hey whats up?
....so im working on my girls car (95 Eagle talon AWD) and my buddy for whatever reason noticed that the stock brakes on her car are bout 1" larger than the rear brakes on my car (95 eclipse GSX) , plus the rear brakes on the eagle talon are vented and mine arent......so my question is..

WTF??????

 

[MindBlowin03]

I could be wrong, but I thought I read one time that there was something slightly differant in the early 1995 models.

 

[chaye]

here is what im talking bout...
this is my car....

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*notice the gap between the rotor and the dust shield.
her car....

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see....almost no gap on hers.....WTF..

FYI..yes we have the same wheels..........isnt that cute

 

[xdannyx25]

I could be wrong, but I thought I read one time that there was something slightly differant in the early 1995 models.

yes earlier models in 95 got non vented....later models got vented..

 

[V8HAHA]

she has a better car than you

 

[Defiant]

yes earlier models in 95 got non vented....later models got vented..

Vice-versa. Only a few of the early ones got the vented rears, something about a parts screw-up with the Stealth line or something. Mine missed them, durn it. Apparently the Talons weren't supposed to have them in the first place. She just got lucky.

Rear brakes don't do that much anyway, don't be concerned about it.

 

[zippy]

Talons built from 01/94 through 11/94 have vented rear rotors. Pads for these are found at the dealers. Aftermarket ones are hard to find. Same for the rotors. These models also have an EEPROM in the ECU that can be easily swapped out. Date of manufacture should be on the door sticker.

 

[chaye]

i know that the rear brakes dont do much..they do bout 30% of the braking, its just my ego is being hurt here........

yes her car is better than mine....

speaking of eproms, mine didnt have one (it has one now with dsmlink) so i should check hers just for kicks and giggles. Oh and also the intake manifold on her car has the ECI stamp that the !g engines have.
Its all so weird......

 

[xdannyx25]

Vice-versa. Only a few of the early ones got the vented rears, something about a parts screw-up with the Stealth line or something. Mine missed them, durn it. Apparently the Talons weren't supposed to have them in the first place. She just got lucky.

Rear brakes don't do that much anyway, don't be concerned about it.

had a feeling i had it backwards, haha thanks

 

[jtmcinder]

yes her car is better than mine....

Actually, since you want the smallest brakes that get the job done (to have the best unsprung to sprung ratio) and the non-vented are fine, you have the "better" car.

- Jtoby

 

[Todd TCE]

They are both 'non vented' rotors.

And they appear to have different calipers as well. I'd have to dig up the notes, but there might be a different rotor on the RS vs GS and up models. Oddly enough they have the same backing plate for the parking brake parts.

While you might want the larger rotor, you'd need the calipers as well.

On the other hand if the piston on the small rotor is larger and the big rotor's smaller the overall torque could well be nearly the same.

 

[Revolution]

They are both 'non vented' rotors.

I have a 95 Eagle talon awd tsi and the rear rotors (stock) on my car were exactly the same size as you'r girlfriends.

My rotors where vented "stock" as im shure hers are too. It seems that in 96 the talons and eclipses went through some little changes ,and the rear rotors being one of them.

P.s the piston on the caliper isnt small , it's about the same size as the pistons in the front calipers.

Theirs nothing to worry about or be ashamed of bro, some times fate plays crewl jokes on us all.

 

[Todd TCE]

It irks me a bit when folks chime in with mis information just to be heard.

The factory service book on your rear rotor calls out 222mm or 8.7".
From the look of it, the upper photo may not be this large. Or the dust plate is very big! As I pointed out the caliper too looks to have a slightly different body to it.

Neither of them are vented (to be shure) from the pics I'm looking at they are both solid- about .400" thick when new. And yes, the rear piston is quite small; 1 3/8" to be exact, where as the front is 2 3/8". One inch diameter is a huge difference.

It WOULD be interesting to note if the red caliper has a larger bore to it. I'd say 1 1/2" to pair to the smaller rotor. This could negate the effect of the smaller diameter in keeping bias in check. Feel like pulling it apart? If by a very remote chance the piston is slightly larger this would lead to some rear brake mods you may not have considered. I'd need the exact diameter difference of both the rotor and piston to give you specific bias info.

 

[chaye]

hehe..no her rear brakes are vented and mine aren't..ill take more pics and ill measure them....its weird cause the brake pad seems to be larger than the one on mine. As far as me taking them apart........its out of the question..

 

[Todd TCE]

If they are then I'm the first to apologize and stand corrected. From the pic they show no sign of a second cheek or air gap.

The size of the pad remember will not have any real impact on the braking performance. Beeing on a smaller rotor however will.

I'd still be very interested in knowing the piston size here as well.

If the pistons are larger (say 1.5) and the caliper can be fit to the later bracket/slider then you'd have an unusual combo on the rear of elevated rear brake performance. If the piston is the same then you have minimal gains in the dia change.

 

[92awddsm]

If they are then I'm the first to apologize and stand corrected. From the pic they show no sign of a second cheek or air gap.

The size of the pad remember will not have any real impact on the braking performance. Beeing on a smaller rotor however will.

I'd still be very interested in knowing the piston size here as well.

If the pistons are larger (say 1.5) and the caliper can be fit to the later bracket/slider then you'd have an unusual combo on the rear of elevated rear brake performance. If the piston is the same then you have minimal gains in the dia change.

If you try to use the early 95 caliper on earlier or later years, you will have no e-brake. The early 95 uses a drum style e-brake inside the rotor hat and all other models use a cam style ebrake in the stock calipers.

And yes, her ecu is probably an eprom.

 

[Todd TCE]

Really?
So all this time I've been supplying a drum hat to work with the 13" rotors, it's been a waste of time? Only the one year is actually using this aspect of things?

 

[AWDTSiTalon]

If you try to use the early 95 caliper on earlier or later years, you will have no e-brake. The early 95 uses a drum style e-brake inside the rotor hat and all other models use a cam style ebrake in the stock calipers.

And yes, her ecu is probably an eprom.

My '97 Talon has the drum style e-brake system.

 

[Todd TCE]

That's good news. I was certainly operating the rear kits under this impression as well. All cars have this from what I know of the data. In fact the 3G is the same part.

 

[Jehu]

I can confirm the fact the early 95s have vented rotors. My build date was Sep. 94, and yes, it has the eprom ecu too...

As far as pads go, Porterfield for one carries the "vented rear rotor" pads.

 

[RamenPride]

My '97 Talon has the drum style e-brake system.

same here

 

[ACM]

Hmm, my post went AWOL.

All 2G AWDs built before 11/94 have larger diameter vented rear rotors. The calipers are also different, not least being that the pistons are a larger diameter. All the drum handbrake components are the same for all model years, including the backing plate to which the caliper bolts (the accomodation for differing rotor diameters is in the caliper carrier bracket). Also worth noting is that the proportioning valve is different as well, for obvious reasons.

The 2G AWDS from the first production run have a number of details which change later on, some sooner than others, not least of them being far better paint quality.

Porterfield carries pads for the vented rotor calipers in all compounds, R4S, R4-1, R4 and R4E. Other companies may too, I haven't used non-Porterfield pads in quite a while. Porterfield also has rotors for both versions, as does (I think) Powerslot. Mitsu rotors were still cheaper than these alternatives though, last time I checked.

As to rear brakes not doing much, I regularly get my 95's rear brakes too hot to touch. I don't remember the exact temperatures, I think they were in the 400s range (in my notes somewhere). That's running R4S rear pads and AS03s.

Charles

 

[Defiant]

As to rear brakes not doing much, I regularly get my 95's rear brakes too hot to touch. I don't remember the exact temperatures, I think they were in the 400s range (in my notes somewhere). That's running R4S rear pads and AS03s.

Ah, but how hot were the fronts then?

 

[Todd TCE]

wow, I lost a reply too. ?


Charles, good data. Knew someone could offer more conclusive info.

You say it is larger however, why do others claim the vented part is smaller? Shown is supposedly vented and it's smaller. Do you know the piston size? Can a hybrid caliper/bracket be set up? You ever explore this? With proper fronts it may well be worthy package.

I use the later part for the parking brakes all the time so I was shocked with the thought that there were some caliper operated ebrakes out there. Shows how much you can believe some of what you read....

 

[ACM]

Ah, but how hot were the fronts then?

I don't have my notes with me, but I think we saw 800s on the rotors and 600s on the pads. Again I will have to check, I'll repost if the numbers were significantly different.



Todd,
the rear pistons are 38.1mm on the vented rotor cars, 34.9mm on later 2Gs. This is from the CD Manual. The difference in rotor diameter can be clearly seen looking at the clearance between the rotor and the dust shield. The dust shield is the same part # - MB950209/10, the vented rotor is almost touching the dust shield lip, whereas there is about a centimetre clearance on the later cars. Regarding brackets, the parts that you care about are all the same, but there will be some dynamic change due to the different proportioning valves.

I have not explored different brakes for my 95 as I run SCCA ESP - my brakes have to be stock. If you mean can the caliper carrier brackets be swapped between calipers I don't know...I do know the pins are different, though they look very similar; The vented pins are about 5mm longer than the solid rotor pins, but the other pin dimensions, threads etc are the same. Whether the pin spacing is the same, that I don't know

Whoever thinks that 2Gs use a 1G parking brake setup needs to lay off the mushrooms for a bit...