T3 compared to Mitshu

[DervhaneTSI]

Ok guys im right around the corner from my GT3076r setup, and I know everybody says the t3 housing will flow better, I am wanting to know is it gonna make much of a difference, also I wanted to see if anyone can post me up a Picture of a t3 style 3076 to the Mitshu, reason being so I can get a heads up on what I'll have to do with my exhaust since mines has the o2 elim.
With this little info I will be able to decide if I should buy the t3 just cause it flows better, cause the mitshu is a direct bolt on to my exhaust

 

[kahl23]

First off we need to know what you're comparing here. The FP turbine housing (which when coupled with a 3076R CHRA makes a 3052) flows more than a PTE bolt on housing, but the PTE housing has a standard Mitsu style O2 housing flange. The FP3052 has a v-band O2, so it won't work with whatever O2 eliminator you have, and it will also require a Tial 44mm v-band wastegate. You can order t3 housings in a variety of flavors, most commonly used with the GT30 are the .63 and .82 A/R housings. The FP bolt on housing is a .68A/R, so in between the two Garretts, and I don't know the A/R of the PTE housing, but somewhere below .68. The Garrett housings usually are offered with either a 4 bolt O2 housing flange or a v-band flange. So, it sounds like if you want to keep your O2 eliminator you'd want the PTE bolt on, which is the most restrictive bolt on housing.

PTE:
Slowboy Racing :: Turbos :: DSM Turbos :: PTE :: Mitsu Turbine Housing :: Bolt On Ball Bearing GT30R

FP3052:
Forced Performance Turbochargers: DSM FP3052 Ball Bearing Turbocharger

Garrett (just the turbine housing, but you'll see the 4 bolt flange):
Forced Performance Turbochargers: Garrett Turbine Housing GT30

And you might want to read this thread:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/248171-t3-gt3076-vs-fp3052.html

Finally, if you want the end-all be-all of GT30Rs, look at the FP HTA series, which can either be had in bolt on or full garrett flavors. Sorry for the novel, but it should give you some good info to check out.

 

[toofast82]

The PTE is advertised at .63ar but i believe it is more like .55ar
Im not sure what turbine wheel this turbo has but this would be best of both worlds
t3 inlet, mitsu outlet .70ar Tim's Turbos - Turbo Rebuilding - Steel Turbine Housing - T3 Inlet
It really depends on how much power you are looking to make. The bolton pte housing will probably have a hard time keeping up above 475whp(a good guess) with the t3 housings. It depends on your budget as well

 

[kahl23]

Toofast- that link isn't working for me, but I know what housing you mean. I know they work with Holsets, but would it work with a GT30R?

 

[1992awdlaser]

I would choose T3 without a doubt. In addition to the extra power, it will make it so the engine is less prone to knock. And since the engine will be less prone to knock, you can tune for even more power than with the bolt on housing.

 

[kahl23]

1992awdlaser- I assume you're saying that with the .82 A/R Garrett housing it would be less restrictive to exhaust flow and the compressor could therefore push more lbs/min per psi than it would versus a smaller bolt on housing. Am I right there? My question is would the .63 Garrett housing still flow more lbs/min per psi than the FP housing, which I believe FP has said is somewhat equivalent to a .68 Garrett housing? I know a major issue with other styles of bolt on housings have been that the volute isn't designed for the GT30 turbine wheel and that hurts their efficiency, but I thought that the FP30 housing was designed around the GT30 turbine?

 

[toofast82]

I dont think they make one for the gt30 turbine wheel, yet. But depending if its a little bigger than a t3 turbine than you could get it machined for fairly cheap

 

[kahl23]

I dont think they make one for the gt30 turbine wheel, yet. But depending if its a little bigger than a t3 turbine than you could get it machined for fairly cheap

Who is "they"? If you mean FP, then the FP30 housing definitely fits a GT30 turbine wheel.

Having a modern cartridge with ball bearings and super efficient blades isn't going to do anyone any good if it doesn't bolt up. The existing 7cm^2 and 8cm^2 Mitsubishi turbine housings were not only too small for the GT30 turbine wheel, but mass production design compromises such as an offset non-symetric volute and poor material made them very undesirable. It was decided to abandon attempts to force them to work. Design work started on a totally new turbine housing. A truly perfect turbine housing worthy of the GT30 CHRA.

The result of the research is our race inspired totally symmetric volute scaled to perfectly match the dimensions of the GT30 turbine wheel. This larger housing incorporates a built in wastegate mount which offers simplified installation without compromising boost control like inferior internal wastegates. Boost pressure can be set as low as 14psi without ANY boost creeping at higher RPM.

 

[toofast82]

"They" is meaning the link(that doesnt work) with the BEP housing with the .70ar t3in/mitsu out housing. Geez, i didnt know the gt30 would fit in fp30 housing, guess you learn something new everyday, joking! dont be so trigger happy kahl23,

 

[Boosted98gsx]

If you're getting a 3076 get it in an FP turbine (3052). The FP turbine (~.65 A/R) is right around the sweet spot for that compressor on our engines.

If you were leaning towards an 82mm .56 trim, I would then recommend a .82A/R T3 turbine housing so that you could use the 35R turbine.

 

[kahl23]

"They" is meaning the link(that doesnt work) with the BEP housing with the .70ar t3in/mitsu out housing. Geez, i didnt know the gt30 would fit in fp30 housing, guess you learn something new everyday, joking! dont be so trigger happy kahl23,

Sorry, unspecified pronouns set me off everytime

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

I would choose T3 without a doubt. In addition to the extra power, it will make it so the engine is less prone to knock. And since the engine will be less prone to knock, you can tune for even more power than with the bolt on housing.

Can you explain how that would be? I'm just having a hard time understanding how that would work. I understand that having a larger compressor would reduce knock due to lower compressor outlet temperatures and higher efficiency at high boost levels, but not sure how the turbine housing would affect knock. -Beau

 

[andy4g63]

The only thing, that makes sense to me is because larger turbine housing will cause less backpressure and flow freely,compared to the bolt on. And definately the difference in size0.63-68/FP/, compared to 0.83. AR. This will cause motor to run little less hotter/with the same tune for the both housings/ and therefore less prone to knock. This is my ASSUMPTION ONLY !!!

And Dervhane it comes basically to this:
Are you ready for a little late spool-up/3-500 RPM's/, besides extra power.

 

[dsm-onster]

More flow out the turbine means more flow per psi of boost. More flow per psi means more horsepower per psi and less pumping losses. This means that you make more power at a lower boost. Boost adds more heat than ineffciency. 10% more boost adds 10 times more heat than 10% less in efficiency.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Andy and Matt are right.

The way Andy was trying to explain is: less backpressure = less heat in the turbine housing. If there is more back pressure and the heat builds up, the heat has to go somewhere. And it will go to the head/valves. When the valves get hot, they can cause knock or pre-ignition.

 

[kahl23]

1992awdlaser- What about the answer to my question then? Wouldn't the FP bolt on cause less backpressure than the .63 Garrett housing as it has a larger A/R and a similar symmetrical volute?

 

[dsm-onster]

From what I see of the garrett .63 a/r turbine housing in front of me, the fp housing has a beter radiused entry to the turbine blades. This will help flow and spool. The area about the same points radially from the hub appear to be larger as well. This is a 'larger a/r'.

I dont know how much imperical data there is comparing a direct swap between housings. Most swap other components like the exhaust manifold and o2 housing when swapping turbine housings. So not many have actual proof that one particular turbine housing outflows another.