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Supercharger/turbo setup....

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TT_NS

15+ Year Contributor
203
1
Dec 2, 2003
all right guys i got an interesting setup. i drew up two diagrams for the 1g dsm with a supercharger and a turbo. one is more basic then the other. on the first set up i have the turbo connected before the supercharger. The reason for this is that it is a simpler set up. You would not half to worry about "back wash" if you would. The idea behind this set up is that the supercharger would simply suck air threw the same intake as the turbo. giving the engine boost while the turbo is taking its time spooling up. then when the turbo spools up it will increase boost. Although i find this a really crapy set up LOL. There would be so much air friction going on in this. First from the turbo being in the way of the supercharger and visa versa. So i thought id try something a little more interesting. Then i came up with the second diagram. In this one the supercharger has its own intake which will reduce friction. But this is where i run into a problem. When the boost being created transfers from the supercharger to the turbo i need to release all pressure being created by the supercharger so i can close off that entire area with a valve that will prevent the turbos pressure from being pushed back out the supercharger. Make since? Dose any one know of a anything that works like a BOV but releases under certain pressure? Any way the pressure from the turbo will shut the valve to the supercharger. hope you can picture how that would work. I was also thinking for either application i could fabricate a pulley or use the one off the A/C on the car so the Supercharger could be turned off and on by a clutch just like the A/C. Although i wouldn't have any idea how i could control the relay from turneing off and on without me hitting a button. that might be to complex for me. I noticed if you take out the A/C you have plenty of space for a Vortech supercharger in that area. That is my plan. Its nice to come up with something a little different then what other people are doing. Just another way to get the power so please don't bash the idea. But let me know some ideas you guys come up with. This would take allot of fabrication but im up for the work.:thumb:
 

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all i have to say is holy **** that has to be scary fast.

It was.... managed to get it home today, compression is now 65,80,90,45. :barf: The new engine is on the front burner now... gotta have it ready for the ridgecrest Rallyx.

Question.... Oil squirters for THIS application, what do the wisemen think? Yes or no...

The plan is 1G pistons again, coated 1G rods. Metal headgasket and arp fastners throughout. Max rpm is 6800. Thoughts?
 
Go with 2g pistons 1g coated rods and oil squirters! That sucks to hear that the motor took a digger on you but hopefully the next motor will be stronger and faster!
 
Go with 2g pistons 1g coated rods and oil squirters! That sucks to hear that the motor took a digger on you but hopefully the next motor will be stronger and faster!

why 2gs? The pistons would probably just increase his chances of knock
and make it harder to tune considering his set up.
And ray why not gone and dish out some forged internals and get everything
cryotreated or something so you can really max out your set up.?
 
I'm headed that way, there unfortunatly are bugetary restrictions currently. and I've had this engine sitting on the stand for almost 5 years waiting for a car. The stock rods should be plenty strong, I'm not into big rpm, but it's hard to get low compression pistons, everyone wants to sell 8.5's or higher even. I'd almost go 7.5 to 1 on some JE's and ceramic coat the pistons to keep the heat out. I really never have to deal with off boost performance with my setup, as long as it wil start and idle.
I'm going to start looking at the 2g timing map, I'll for sure have to pull a bunch of timing for the highewr compression.

THe intent is to get some more testing in, the new intercooler setup should improve things a bunch, plus give me some data for the 2G engines so when the time comes to build the kit for one I'll have a good idea what kind of supporting mods will need to be in place to make this work well.

Even with the compression at half min spec, it goes better than my stock 90 awd :). Not starting so well though....
 
Sucks to hear about the engine - tough break. That's the beauty of R&D though, right?

Can't wait to see more insanity. :thumb:
 
I'm headed that way, there unfortunatly are bugetary restrictions currently. and I've had this engine sitting on the stand for almost 5 years waiting for a car. The stock rods should be plenty strong, I'm not into big rpm, but it's hard to get low compression pistons, everyone wants to sell 8.5's or higher even. I'd almost go 7.5 to 1 on some JE's and ceramic coat the pistons to keep the heat out. I really never have to deal with off boost performance with my setup, as long as it wil start and idle.
I'm going to start looking at the 2g timing map, I'll for sure have to pull a bunch of timing for the highewr compression.

THe intent is to get some more testing in, the new intercooler setup should improve things a bunch, plus give me some data for the 2G engines so when the time comes to build the kit for one I'll have a good idea what kind of supporting mods will need to be in place to make this work well.

Even with the compression at half min spec, it goes better than my stock 90 awd :). Not starting so well though....

I thought someone made forged 7.5 compression pistons.
Pulling timing to add compression youd think it would take power
because timing gives bigger gains than compression, and considering your on boost
all the time its not like you need compression for off boost reasons.
Id think that you could run stock pistons that were cyrotreated and shot peended
and be as durable as forged almost, and perhaps just make sure the rods and crank were aftermarket.
I believe the rods are the weakest link not the pistons. Maybe someone could correct me on that.
 
the guy ended up making over 450 HP and 460 lb's on an 18g turbo at 22 psi. 8 psi by 1500 rpm's.

I've talked to him a few times, the guy knows his stuff. the entire project was intended for rally.
 
His name is Ray Peters I believe and he is a supporting vendor on this web site.
And from reading your posts LaN, you have spent quite alot of time talking with him. How is your twin charger set up coming?
 
the guy ended up making over 450 HP and 460 lb's on an 18g turbo at 22 psi. 8 psi by 1500 rpm's.

I've talked to him a few times, the guy knows his stuff. the entire project was intended for rally.

Thats pretty cool, thumbs up for being different.

You say he intended it for rally, did he get the idea from the group B rally cars of the 80's? Like the Lancia Delta S4, my favorite rally car of all time.

Bill
 
His name is Ray Peters I believe and he is a supporting vendor on this web site.
And from reading your posts LaN, you have spent quite alot of time talking with him. How is your twin charger set up coming?

I've put mine on hold for now. I just wanna get my car running LOL. I decided i don't want my car down all summer so it will turn into a winter project


I believe he did get the idea from the Lancia Delta S4. I'm not 100% sure, but i would imagine it helped
 
There is a vid of it doing rally racing on Ray's thread 'twincharger v.2 teaser'. Looks like the car is a beast. From reading his thread's, he is very knowledgeable and talented. I for one am glad he joined the community.
 
maybe, i think a 2.0 that can rev to 9k would be the best. That way you can use an extremely big turbo and be able to really use its top end power. The S/C would take care of everything down low.

This guy seems all about low end power/torque though, especially since he rallys/ autocrosses... He could still get 8.5k out of a well built and balanced 2.3 without any problems, and 8.5k on a bored 2.3 stroker w/ cams will be flowing more air than a 2.0 at 9k with cams... I mean it doesnt appear he's building a daily driver that needs to last 4 or 5 years on that single build so he could play with some more rpms on a stroker. I do agree with you though that it would be insane if he built a set up to take advantage of the higher rpms, 9.5k +.....
 
This guy seems all about low end power/torque though, especially since he rallys/ autocrosses... He could still get 8.5k out of a well built and balanced 2.3 without any problems, and 8.5k on a bored 2.3 stroker w/ cams will be flowing more air than a 2.0 at 9k with cams... I mean it doesnt appear he's building a daily driver that needs to last 4 or 5 years on that single build so he could play with some more rpms on a stroker. I do agree with you though that it would be insane if he built a set up to take advantage of the higher rpms, 9.5k +.....

yeah that would be a sick build up.
 
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