1G Stuck in gear? shift fork?

[bryanzomg]

i’ve got a 1g AWD manual transmission car. Noticed the car was “clunking” when going into 3rd gear before even releasing clutch on my lunch break. I got back to work and went through the gears clutched in car running and went back into neutral position and i heard it clunk and i let go of clutch and car stalled out.
-if i start car it stalls out
-i can turn on car with clutch pedal pressed down
-disconnected shift cables at trans can’t FULLY click into gears except maybe 2nd & reverse
-cannot manually shift into third or fourth, just hits a wall right away no movement at all unlike other gears
safe to say it’s something internal, does this sound like the following
-broken/bent 3/4th shift fork
-3/4th hub slider
-broken shift rails
-seized ball detents for forks
if the forks i found a write up TMZ has someone on here but for a FWD not sure how different it would be on AWD
Once I tear down, lets say it's either of those, would I need to shim and check preload or is that only done when changing races and installing new bearings

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Possible shift rail end broken. If just replacing it (if you can find one) you wouldn't have to reshim anything.
@pauleyman , what do you think of this issue? (He is a very good source on trans issues)

 

[twicks69]

I know I have plenty of teardown instructions for a W5M33 trans on the forum, let me look.

Here you go

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/needing-advice-on-front-diff-replacement.387171/#post-152396943

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Now when Mr Zimmer steps in, LISTEN......I consider him our top notch transmission man!
Thanks Tim, hope things are looking up!

 

[bryanzomg]

Thanks Tim, i’ll be attempting it at work should be fun. i have a spare trans in somewhat of a working order i might tear down for parts if needed

 

[pauleyman]

Possible shift rail end broken. If just replacing it (if you can find one) you wouldn't have to reshim anything.
@pauleyman , what do you think of this issue? (He is a very good source on trans issues)

I concur possible shift rail or fork. Easy to tell once it's apart. If you're not changing bearings you do not need to reshim but now is the time to check for play. Done dozens of clutch and customers frequently would deny the work after I showed them 50thou play on the input. " it'll be fine" they say. And dsms have an unreliable reputation....uh huh.

 

[Vegas Smith]

Had this happen twice about 15 years ago. Broken shift fork each time. Lame transmission couldn’t handle me.

 

[bryanzomg]

I concur possible shift rail or fork. Easy to tell once it's apart. If you're not changing bearings you do not need to reshim but now is the time to check for play. Done dozens of clutch and customers frequently would deny the work after I showed them 50thou play on the input. " it'll be fine" they say. And dsms have an unreliable reputation....uh huh.

i’ll check the end play on things while i’m there, might even just replace bearings/races if it not within spec, just worried about finding the proper shims otherwise i’ve seen you can make your own

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

You ARE hard to handle Vegas......

 

[bryanzomg]

Had this happen twice about 15 years ago. Broken shift fork each time. Lame transmission couldn’t handle me.

i’m wondering if this was due to my newly added aluminum solid bushings at the shift linkage on transmission side… although the car does see some pretty heavy abuse

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

What year is your Trans Bryan? 1992 like your profile says?

 

[bryanzomg]

What year is your Trans Bryan? 1992 like your profile says?

That's what I was told. Definitely not a 90 case/gearset. Got it from R&D performance here in Carol stream Illinois awhile back

 

[pauleyman]

On

i’m wondering if this was due to my newly added aluminum solid bushings at the shift linkage on transmission side… although the car does see some pretty heavy abuse

The cable ends? I'm not a fan of those. Skate bearings either.

 

[bryanzomg]

On

The cable ends? I'm not a fan of those. Skate bearings either.

shall i get rubber oem ones?

 

[pauleyman]

shall i get rubber oem ones?

That's up to you. I just stated I'm not a fan. Leaves no wiggle room.

 

[luv2rallye]

shall i get rubber oem ones?

DEFINITELY! The "skateboard bearing mod" doesn't allow the fork inside the tranny to adjust for small needed wiggle movement (https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/youre-not-a-true-dsmer-unless.528362/page-2#post-153760144). Instead it forces the fork to rub on one side of the synchronizer sleeve groove (instead of allowing it to freely stay in the middle of the groove) which wears the aluminum fork down getting narrower and narrower (see the "width worn" pic here: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/popping-out-of-4th-gear.290238/#post-151566175) until bad things happen (popping out of gear in my case). Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. I've rebuilt my tranny 3 times for this very problem until I finally figured this out (took 10 years). So even though the skateboard mod stiffens up the shifter to make it shift really nice, it will eventually damage shift forks and cause major problems requiring tranny to be opened up.

 

[bastarddsm]

On a 1g with the correct parts and correctly adjusted that is not really true. The case has stops for the rail built into it which keep the fork from over traveling. When it's right the detent balls pull the rail up against the stops, and your shifter should be adjusted so that it is against the stops on either end and the cable slips on.

Start mix/matching parts and all hell breaks loose. I also think that the solid end bushings are a bit harsh on stuff. I have the shifter mounted solid, the cables solid to trans and that seems about the stiffest you would want it.

These transmissions can shift very well. They are not a M22/A833/toploader with a hurst comp plus shifter, but they certainly are not that bad either. They got a bad rap because of driver error, and poor clutch quality/design/setup. No manual trans will live/shift well if the driver sucks and/or the clutch doesn't release.

 

[bryanzomg]

On a 1g with the correct parts and correctly adjusted that is not really true. The case has stops for the rail built into it which keep the fork from over traveling. When it's right the detent balls pull the rail up against the stops, and your shifter should be adjusted so that it is against the stops on either end and the cable slips on.

Start mix/matching parts and all hell breaks loose. I also think that the solid end bushings are a bit harsh on stuff. I have the shifter mounted solid, the cables solid to trans and that seems about the stiffest you would want it.

These transmissions can shift very well. They are not a M22/A833/toploader with a hurst comp plus shifter, but they certainly are not that bad either. They got a bad rap because of driver error, and poor clutch quality/design/setup. No manual trans will live/shift well if the driver sucks and/or the clutch doesn't release.

well i just might switch back to rubber bushings, it does feel a bit hard and i’ll rebuild my shifter base instead as there is a bit of play.
i appreciate the insight Kurt.
You might be hearing from me since you’re just a drive away if I can’t set preloads correctly

 

[luv2rallye]

Start mix/matching parts and all hell breaks loose. I also think that the solid end bushings are a bit harsh on stuff. I have the shifter mounted solid, the cables solid to trans and that seems about the stiffest you would want it.

I agree. I also have the shifter mounted solid (Symborski shifter plate bushings), cables solid to trans, OEM rubber tranny cable end bushings. Also make sure the front/rear engine mounts are good. Otherwise a rocking engine can pop out of gear or have trouble shifting into one since that lengthens/shortens the shift cable inside its casing (like cables not mounted solidly to the trans does). And the Select Lever Shoe isn't worn too far (https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/97-gs-t-fifth-gear-grinding-help.376341/#post-152266167).

 

[bryanzomg]

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[bryanzomg]

when i got back to work friday i was able to freely shift into 3rd and fourth again. decided to tear down anyways.
i see two gears with chips and one with outer wear provided in pictures are these generally tossed or smoothed out.
i don’t see broken rail ends nor broken shift fork.
i provided pictures let me know if you guys want me to tear down further

 

[pauleyman]

Did you check endplay and clutch release?

 

[bryanzomg]

what gearset is this? also have wear on the transmission plates

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[bryanzomg]

Did you check endplay and clutch rele was good, clutch fork was good

Did you check endplay and clutch release?

TOB and fork are in working condition
i could not get a measure on input shaft endplay with dial indicator it wouldn’t really move in or out

 

[luv2rallye]

In your post 20 video, there appears to be some play between the 3/4 shift fork and the sync sleeve when shifting, especially in the middle of the fork. Check the fork to see if it's worn narrower there. The attached pic is from my 99 (which had 4th gear popouts due to the skateboard bearing mod) but the 1g is probably the same dimensions.

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