strange water pump problem?

[adr127]

I've searched this, but didnt come up with anything.

Back in January I noticed my engine running hot. Pulled over conveniently next to a NAPA and bought a new thermostat and refilled the coolant and it ran fine after that.
2 weeks ago i let my brother borrow my car for a job interview ~300 miles away. He said that he noticed it leaking some sort of fluid in a parking lot, and that it wouldn't start for a while. he eventually did get it going an hour or so later. He said the engine temp never rose above a normal level either.
he drove it back to me a couple days later and it broke down on him 10 mi. away (after a 500-600 mile trip). He said nothing seemed out of the ordinary when it happened, it just went from normal running to a puttering stop.

before I go on, it is a 97 eclipse rs with 420a engine, stock parts

I looked at it later that night and didnt notice anything out of the ordinary at first - battery good, starter good, spark plug clean. checked the fuel rail though and it was bone dry with NO pressure even after cranking it over.
bought and installed a new fuel pump the next day and cranked it, check fuel rail and had fuel and pressure, but still no start. read on another post somewhere that ECU wouldn't let engine start until coolant sensor reported ok temps. thinking that maybe it was low on coolant and thus not registering a temp to ecu, i topped off the fluid levels and almost immediately heard it pouring out under the engine as fast as it was going in.
couldnt see where it was leaking from so i searched the forums for clues. a lot of people had similar problems that stemmed from the water pump, so I began arduous task of getting to the water pump, and found that it is leaking from the pump.

Here is the weird part:

I have been reading that if you have to work on the pump you should do yourself a favor and replace the timing belt (420a is an interference engine after all) I couldnt (and havnt yet) been able remove the plastic cover because of the damn 4 in bolts hitting the frame, but can see that there is minor wear along the edge of the belt, and that it has walked mostly off the water pump gear. It has walked so much off the gear in fact that it has pushed the plastic timing belt cover out of the way.
furthermore, when i turn the harmonic balancer there is no activity with the camshaft/timing belt. I was under the impression that the harmonic balancer pulley was connected to the same drive shaft the timing belt runs on?

my questions are:

1) how in the hell do I get the engine bracket off? there are posts on here about it, but they are either vague, or do not work like they say. I have all the bolts loosened completely, and tried the "rubiks cube" method of jiggling out with the last 2 bolts still in. can someone recommend a solution that does not include pulling the engine? I'm about ready to drill through the frame.

2) does anyone else know whats going on with my water pump? why has the belt walked off gear so much that its pushing the plastic timing belt cover out of the way?

3) does the faulty fuel pump have anything to do with this, or did it happen to break at the same time?

4) why would the water pump leak little tiny volumes of water over time, and then seemingly overnight have a catastrophic leak?

5) is the thing i read about the coolant sensor and ECU correct?

6) why does mitsubishi have to make the water pump dependent on the timing belt instead of a serpentine belt like a normal person would design it?

I will try to post pics tomorrow of all of this, i've just been having a hell of a schedule these last couple weeks

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thanks guys
-alex

 

[bryanwheat]

To get the bracket out you will need to remove the mount and jack the engine up. The bolts will come right out when you get it high enough. IF the cam's aren't turning when you turn the crank than you have a big problem. Either teeth stripped from the belt, or a sheered key on the crankshaft.

 

[adr127]

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minor damage on the timing belt, seems to be seated fine over the camshaft cears

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timing belt at water pump pushing cover off

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NOT seat correctly here

To get the bracket out you will need to remove the mount and jack the engine up. The bolts will come right out when you get it high enough.

that seems like too much to jack up to me. would i have to disconnect anything before doing it, besides the bottom engine mount?

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[bryanwheat]

Jacking it up is the way that is it done. IT is the only way short of pulling the engine to get them out. It looks like the belt isn't even on the wp pulley any more from the looks of it.

 

[adr127]

Ok, so I havnt worked on it in a while, but the other day I got the engine brackets, harmonic balancer, and front cover off. I was horrified to see that the timing belt had its teeth sheared off around the crank. I looked at other posts about people having their timing belts break while driving and the consensus is that the valves are bent on them, but what if the belt broke while starting the car?

I also did determine that the water pump is bad. I actually suspect something is jamming it on the inside and that is what ultimately caused the teeth to shear around the crank.

When it happened, my brother said it ran before, but didnt want to start when he came back after parking it. What I think happened was the water pump jammed, and he tried starting it, but it wouldnt start because the timing belt wouldnt budge. And when either he then, or I later turned the engine over the crankshaft turned and sheared the teeth off the timing belt.

What can I expect the damage to be to the valves if the engine wasnt running when the teeth sheared off? I think only 1 or 2 cylinders would be effected since only 1 or 2 would have the valves open. is there a chance I dodged a bullet and wont have to replace the valve train and possibly pistons? how bad would it be if I didnt replace the pistons, assuming only minor damage to the heads?

 

[Firsts tuner]

Bent valves are pretty much guaranteed. At the very least you'll need to pop the head off and have new valves put in possibly new seats. The pistons should be ok. Honestly you could probably get a junk yard head cheaper than replacing the valve train, but you're still gonna want to have a professional check it for cracks or warpage. The 420a is as easy as a stone to work on with a chiltons manual. You could pull the head on a Saturday drop it off Monday and have it back on and buttoned up by the following Monday.

 

[adr127]

Thanks for the fast reply Firsts tuner! what do you think the cost would be? I also have to replace the water pump and the timing belt.

 

[Firsts tuner]

Honestly I don't know. It all depends on how much you want to do yourself and quality of parts. I have never had to do this on my dsm. Maybe one of the wisemen can chime in. But. The last time I took a head to the machine shop it was for a 4.7 Chrysler motor. They replaced three valves, cut 3 valve seats, and surfaced the mating surfaces and charged 350. Check around. Machine shops are getting like tire shops around here. There's one on every corner and all different skill level of employees working there.

 

[trillatl]

I took my head to the machine shop and pay the 450 to get it checked for cracks and leaks, I got a full valve job and had it decked and cleaned up. Valves don't cost that much anyways... Better to be safe then sorry Pull that head off might as well change the head gasket while ya at it ... Oh this price also came with new arp head bolts and a fel-pro told end gasket set. So ya price may be cheaper!

 

[buddy3824]

I lost 14 teeth on a 92gsx I had. down shifted in a corner and when clutch was let it, they sheared. Slap a belt on it and check your compression. shouldnt take you too long. never know, you may have been lucky like me

 

[Firsts tuner]

I lost 14 teeth on a 92gsx I had. down shifted in a corner and when clutch was let it, they sheared. Slap a belt on it and check your compression. shouldnt take you too long. never know, you may have been lucky like me

WHAAAA? Please tell me you ran out and bought a powerball ticket! You my friend are the luckiest sob alive.

 

[buddy3824]

I did not, I wasnt old enough when that happened . I couldnt believe it either. 152-154 on all 4. was astonishing to say the least. It'll never happen again, guarantee it.