Stock Intercooler vs. FMIC

[1G90AWDTsi]

How much can my stock intercooler take (with all my mods)? Can I uprade it without going FMIC? What about the supra's intercooler, I heard those are better than my stock and not as pricey as a FMIC. I won't be boosting past factory.

 

[selmerguy]

I was running a ebay 50 trim with a large FMIC(cant remember numbers but it is big) I blew up the turbo and had to go back to the 14b. There is quite abit of lag filling up the 2.5 inch pipes and fmic. I dont mind it much I still get high 12's and low 13's but I notice it at 20 psi.

 

[cooldude919]

Im running a 14b with a hahn sidemount. It works great at the track for a single run. I went racing around later and after a few runs close together, my intercooler burnt me when i touched it. I thought this smic would be enough for a 14b, but if i ever want to do multiple runs or a road course i would need a fmic.

 

[dsm-onster]

That's what happens in the real world.

Is that hahn intercooler this one here?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

If so, that is a substancially bigger intercooler.

 

[1G90AWDTsi]

Thanks for all the info guys, but I'm still a little confused...I don't want to boost past stock even though I have a bigger turbo, and I am trying to save some extra cash so I "only" want to buy a FMIC if it means my car will run safer. AND I do like the sleeper look. All that being said, what now? Thanks!!

Here's a list of my installed mods: Shaved, bored, and honed block, 3 angle valve job on cylinder head, HKS cams 264i/272e, Big 16g Turbo, 750cc Fuel Injs (scaled with DSMLink), Tubular exhaust manifold, JE inverted dome top 85.5mm pistons, ACL race rod/main bearings, micropolished and balanced crank, ported O2 housing, stock SMIC, K&N Air intake (still housed with factory housing and plastic pipes). Running stock boost (no booster installed and no plans to boost past stock).

Oh yeah I also eliminated the balance shaft and installed a block-off bearing and plugged the balance-shaft tension hole with a bolt, anything else have to get done on that or is that it?

 

[nightspeed87]

Stock sidemounts, not just supra sidemounts, have taken guys to 12s. He!! I went 13.4 on stock EVERYTHING in the engine bay including intercooler on cheap 225 street radials and FWD. But it's much EASIER when you have a much cooler aircharge. Much easier to tune those high timing advances of an SAFC or MAFT. That's simple to see. Make it easier on yourself. You can get a FMIC and pipe it all for around $200 if you pay attention to ebay. Running the factory recommended 25% or less antifreeze during the summer months is likely all you'll need. And you can still keep your ac heat exchanger.

That comes to my final point. Have you seen how tight the fins are on the ac heat exchanger? It covers the radiator entirely, as well. But the radiator still manages to cool the coolant just fine.

Another trick to keeping the coolant down is to keep the airdam duct. When mounting the FMIC, cut the duct so that IC has a snig fit IN the duct. But don't remove it or cut the duct in a spot where there is no FMIC or piping. If you do, then you're making an oem system inferior to stock, then putting a big FMIC in front of it.

I agree that a FMIC slows the flow of air gettign to the radiator. But, do things right the first time: not destorying/chucking the radiator air duct, running the recommended mix of antifreeze or watter wetter, perhaps a bit coolter thermostat, and a FMIC that cools much better for your little turbo. Even if the air is moving a bit slower, if has no choice but to go throught the radiator then it will still cool fine. Wire both fans on if you're still having problems. This will guarantee a good airflow.

Exactly.... Instead I have sheetmetal under the front of the car for radiator and fmic air ducting which I find to work better... As for the fans, I only have one fan since I have no a/c but i spliced into the blue and orange wire and ran it to the ign on the fuse box so soon as ign is hit the fan is full blast, and if you keep both fans doing this one wire makes both fans hit full blast. Keeps everything cooler than normal under the hood.
I run straight distilled water with water wetter, I dont even use coolant right now... I live in fl too though... But also a front mount intercooler to me is a mandatory upgrade on a turbo car running anything over 15lbs in my opinion, reguardless of the turbo.
Its not always about the heat as dsm-onster mentioned, its also about the amount of cfm the intercooler and piping can physically flow.
Get a fmic....

Go fmic, punishment racing has a bomb package for only 489.00 shipped. Then you never have to worry about upgrading again untill 550whp. From my experiance with cars its always better to build it for higher hp than you intending on running. Why do you think oem does this? Longevity!!!!

Id actually recommend this kit, its cheap, bar and plate, short route, has everything you need for trouble free installation, including a upgraded downwards flowing jpipe and is big enough for 60 % of the people on this forums needs... I was going to get this myself if plans hadnt changed.

BTW the small16g is back on. How quick this turbo spools just makes me laugh! I love this little turbo. It's like 'the six million dollar 14b'. retains all the characteristics of the 14b including appearance, but REALLY pulls and right at 2500 rpms. I'm glad I have this turbo to fall back on since my 60-1 crapped itself.

Sorry to hear that about your 60-1, makes me hesistant about turbo upgrades outside MHI , well maybe Fp and garrette... I want a turbo that at least lasts 10k reguardless the turbo.
Unless you were just pushing it too hard....

Im running a 14b with a hahn sidemount. It works great at the track for a single run. I went racing around later and after a few runs close together, my intercooler burnt me when i touched it. I thought this smic would be enough for a 14b, but if i ever want to do multiple runs or a road course i would need a fmic.

Exactly.

 

[cooldude919]

That's what happens in the real world.

Is that hahn intercooler this one here?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

If so, that is a substancially bigger intercooler.

Yea that looks like the one. It has something like 96% more volume than stocker, so basically its twice as efficient. I got a pretty good deal on it used, and it was easy to install so overall im happy with it. Only thing about a FMIC is if i got a big one i would probably get a little bit of lag while the 14b filled it up with boost, so for my needs the hahn works good. I probably need to rig up a funnel or try to reuse the stock once since right now i dont have one, so that isnt forcing air into it, although i dont have the cover behind the intercooler so its not like heat is getting built up behind it at all.

 

[dsm-onster]

Sorry to hear that about your 60-1, makes me hesistant about turbo upgrades outside MHI , well maybe Fp and garrette... I want a turbo that at least lasts 10k reguardless the turbo.
Unless you were just pushing it too hard....

Don't forget about Borg-Warner and Holset. Holsets are tough as nails. The turbines operate at 1500 degree exhaust temps non stop and often see over 2K degrees as they are build for diesel applications. So their turbines seam to be durable enough for the DSMLink antilag feature to be active durign the weekend . Borge-warner is proving to be VERY durable and they are diplaying phenominal spool characteristics considering the volume they can flow.

I think I was pushing the turbo too hard for what its construcion, but not its flow capabilities.

 

[DSMunknown]

It doesn't take much to outgrow a SMIC bigger than the devil's balls. The old real estate addage definately applies here: location, location, location. Buy once in a good spot. It's a good investment.

Good to see you stole that directly from me (from this post).

 

[dsm-onster]

Good to see you stole that directly from me (from this post).

HAHA! Considering that I am into real estate "a bit", your statement had a profound impact on my way of thinking . I started cross comparing everythign in my life. What you said really applies. . . To so many things on so many levels.

 

[Calan]

Here's a list of my installed mods: Shaved, bored, and honed block, 3 angle valve job on cylinder head, HKS cams 264i/272e, Big 16g Turbo, 750cc Fuel Injs (scaled with DSMLink), Tubular exhaust manifold, JE inverted dome top 85.5mm pistons, ACL race rod/main bearings, micropolished and balanced crank, ported O2 housing, stock SMIC, K&N Air intake (still housed with factory housing and plastic pipes).

...

Running stock boost (no booster installed and no plans to boost past stock).

Ummm... WHY?

A motor built to that level and you only wanna run 11psi - 12psi? The stock motor is good for consistent 15psi maybe even a steady 18-20 (from everything I've read/heard... mine has run at 18psi/pump since way before I bought it, and before most mods).

You have a lot more restraint and will-power than I would. Besides, you're making the boost junkies with stock motors jealous

Just playing... should be a reliable and fun ride.

BTW - I'm running the small FMIC and water/meth which seems to be a good combination, although I'm still tuning it and fighting another issue in the tranny.

 

[daren_p]

That's what happens in the real world.

Is that hahn intercooler this one here?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

If so, that is a substancially bigger intercooler.

I don't believe thats the same IC they sell for the 4G63 (believe thats a N/T kit), unless they have changed the end tanks but I have run the HRC SMIC for the 4G63 & while it is much larger then the stocker, bar & plate, better flowing, rated for 400 hp, etc, etc. it still has it's limitations. For me is was good to about 18 psi on pump 94, at this level I would usually see some knock in 3rd or 4th on a full pull. If I tried back to back runs, obviously it would get worse. A FMIC upgrade netted me an additional ~2 lb/min in airflow without changing the boost, this combined with the additional cooling effect, to my surprise had a nice effect on the butt dyno, which I wasn't really expecting. My main reason for the upgrade was for plans down the road & wasn't expecting much of a change with that setup/tune, & like I said was plesently surprised.

 

[staticbrainwash]

I didn't bother reading much of this. But here's my .02. I just JUST installed a fmic, longroute. And honestly, over the smic, it's LEAPS and bounds better. I was knocking at about 15psi on the sidemount and heatsoaking after a few hard pulls. With the fmic, i'm getting zero knock and not heatsoaking at all. My whole set-up cost me about 300 bucks. 31x7x3, i didn't have to cut anything, just a little shaving on the bumper. This is all on a STOCK 14b with some porting.

I'd rather a fmic over ANY sidemount all day long.

 

[DSMunknown]

I'd rather a fmic over ANY sidemount all day long.

I wouldn't choose any FMIC over certain SMICs, though. Only certain FMICs will I applaud.

 

[staticbrainwash]

Too liberal with any i guess. But you knew what i meant.

 

[chavez408]

Hm i need to look more in debt about punishment racing's front mount for my Evo III + meth

 

[dsm-onster]

I wouldn't choose any FMIC over certain SMICs, though. Only certain FMICs will I applaud.

What FMIC is not as good as an SMIC! ???

I will beg your pardon if you would suggest one is putting a smic in the front.

 

[staticbrainwash]

Over our crappy smic, i'd say even a crappy fmic off another stock car is still better. I.e. a starquest, or saab.

 

[DSMunknown]

What FMIC is not as good as an SMIC! ???

I will beg your pardon if you would suggest one is putting a smic in the front.

A top-to-bottom FMIC with flow dividers would be one of the most ideal intercoolers imaginable IMHO. I would certainly choose a large SMIC (like the MKIV Supra SMIC) with flow dividers over some side-to-side FMICs (with or without flow dividers) any day of the week.

 

[1G90AWDTsi]

Well, I spent big money building the car in the first place and then only after about 1000 miles, I spun ALL the rods and scored the crank. I had to spend another 2800 bucks fixing that and another 700 bucks for bigger fuel injectors and DSMlink and minor tuning. Now I got to spend the money for a FMIC and more "fine-tuning" at the AWD dyno as well as a bigger fuel pump, AFPR, a stage II clutch and some other minor BS. Man, I just want this car to run dependably now and it's costing me waaaaaay more than I thought. It's actually up for sale at NH.craigslist.org under 1990 eagle talon awd tsi $7000 and there's pics of it at: http://flickr.com/photos/10555451@N02/

 

[iandsm77]

Well, I spent big money building the car in the first place and then only after about 1000 miles, I spun ALL the rods and scored the crank. I had to spend another 2800 bucks fixing that and another 700 bucks for bigger fuel injectors and DSMlink and minor tuning. Now I got to spend the money for a FMIC and more "fine-tuning" at the AWD dyno as well as a bigger fuel pump, AFPR, a stage II clutch and some other minor BS. Man, I just want this car to run dependably now and it's costing me waaaaaay more than I thought. It's actually up for sale at NH.craigslist.org under 1990 eagle talon awd tsi $7000 and there's pics of it at: http://flickr.com/photos/10555451@N02/

welcome to the tuning world of DSM's. Im sure everyone on here that has tuned/modified or whatevers to their dsm has run into similar or same problems. I know i have run into a lot of the same issues you have and went with an xs power fmic set-up (250 shipped to my door!) After all the frustration, money and work spilled into your car when your car runs right....you will not be disappointed at all! Its an awesome feeling.
Its why we tune and modify our cars to have that enjoyment from all we've put into it.

 

[dsm-onster]

A top-to-bottom FMIC with flow dividers would be one of the most ideal intercoolers imaginable IMHO. I would certainly choose a large SMIC (like the MKIV Supra SMIC) with flow dividers over some side-to-side FMICs (with or without flow dividers) any day of the week.

Hmmm, what do you mean by dividers? Do you mean the plate extensions inbetween the tubes or bars of the ic? I agree that a supra smic would be marginally better than a starion fmic or such. But you can get a decent ebay fmic for the same price now-a-days. You'll have s little more piping. But there's sptill plenty of piing work and couplers needed for a smic upgrade.

 

[DSMunknown]

Hmmm, what do you mean by dividers? Do you mean the plate extensions inbetween the tubes or bars of the ic? I agree that a supra smic would be marginally better than a starion fmic or such. But you can get a decent ebay fmic for the same price now-a-days. You'll have s little more piping. But there's sptill plenty of piing work and couplers needed for a smic upgrade.

I think you're thinking of the intercooler's fins. I'm talking about flow dividers (aka baffles) in the end tanks themselves.

 

[dsm-onster]

I think you're thinking of the intercooler's fins. I'm talking about flow dividers (aka baffles) in the end tanks themselves.

Ah! you mean flow dividers int he intercooler end tanks? To encourage the air to be spread evenly through the intercooler?

Thanx for PMing me. I actually looked for this thread, and couldn't find it.

 

[DSMunknown]

Ah! you mean flow dividers int he intercooler end tanks? To encourage the air to be spread evenly through the intercooler?

Thanx for PMing me. I actually looked for this thread, and couldn't find it.

Exactly. Only the most effecient intercoolers utilize these IMHO.

 

[DSMFalcon]

I put a FMIC on my car and I'm not too happy with it. I could obviously use a larger turbo to cut down on the lag. It looks awesome. I just don't really need it to the turbo I have right now.

All in all - LAG SUCKS