Stock Intercooler vs. FMIC

[1G90AWDTsi]

How much can my stock intercooler take (with all my mods)? Can I uprade it without going FMIC? What about the supra's intercooler, I heard those are better than my stock and not as pricey as a FMIC. I won't be boosting past factory.

 

[ilikespeeding]

If you're not boosting past factory, then I'd go with the supra side mount. If you're looking for big numbers, then FMIC. You might want to look into methanol injection if you're not too intrested in the FMIC option.

 

[thekellbeast]

... not as pricey as a FMIC.

I picked up my Supra SMIC for right around 100 bucks, in great condition.

I won't be boosting past factory.

Heard that before. You own a DSM!

 

[tom04841]

I was running 22psi on big 16g, evo 8 560's, safc, and stock sidemount with water/meth injection with no knock and 26 degrees of timing at redline.

Water/meth can be your friend

 

[BoostFrenzy]

If you are not going to be boosting past stock PSI, whats the point of upgrading the stock SMIC? The only real reason to upgrade it would be because the stock side mount heat soaks. But if you want slightly better cooling then the stock one a Supra SMIC is a good upgrade. A cheap one as well. A FMIC on stock levels is kinda pointless even with the 16g you have. But like said by thekellbeast, you do have a DSM. And we are some power hungry people. So its really up to you whether or not to get the FMIC...you know...just in case

 

[DSMunknown]

You have my vote for the Supra SMIC.

 

[1G90AWDTsi]

guys, thanks for the input, I think I am going to look for a supra smic (what year?) and into the water/meth. injection!

Thanks!

 

[stealth mullet]

i had a supra smic on my old b16g. i loved it for two reasons, better then the stock ic, and it kept my radiator clear. i wouldnt go with a fmic, unless your making at least 350+whp. a supra smic would be prefect for anything less. also, water/meth is a good idea. i plan to be running meth w/ e85

 

[1G90AWDTsi]

I gotta look more into that water/meth. inj. How hard is that to install? What about the Supra IC? Is there any modding to the IC or my Talon that I'd need a mechanic to do so that it works/fits?

 

[stealth mullet]

I gotta look more into that water/meth. inj. How hard is that to install? What about the Supra IC? Is there any modding to the IC or my Talon that I'd need a mechanic to do so that it works/fits?

installing a water/meth system isnt too hard to install for a confident mechanic. as for the supra smic, you have to flip on of the endtanks, (if it hasnt been done already. the endtanks pipes should both be favoring one side, versus one to one side and the other to the other.), then the pipes have to be made/modified. thats about it. also, cutting to the whole where the intercooler pipe goes from the ic to the throttle body has to be cut open to accodate a larger diameter pipe for the supra smic. on my i also had to cut the passanger side tow hook to accodate the intercooler pipe, but that my vary depending on the choice of intercooler piping. how this helps.

Matt

 

[DSMunknown]

guys, thanks for the input, I think I am going to look for a supra smic (what year?) and into the water/meth. injection!

Thanks!

One off of a Toyota Supra MKIV (model year 1993 to 1998).

 

[DSMunknown]

I gotta look more into that water/meth. inj. How hard is that to install? What about the Supra IC? Is there any modding to the IC or my Talon that I'd need a mechanic to do so that it works/fits?

Read through this install guide.

also, cutting to the whole where the intercooler pipe goes from the ic to the throttle body has to be cut open to accodate a larger diameter pipe for the supra smic. on my i also had to cut the passanger side tow hook to accodate the intercooler pipe, but that my vary depending on the choice of intercooler piping. how this helps.

Matt

No, you don't have to make any cuts. I thought I proved that already. It can be done; just a little patience is in order. "Where there's a will, there's a way."

 

[stealth mullet]

No, you don't have to make any cuts. I thought I proved that already. It can be done; just a little patience is in order. "Where there's a will, there's a way."

well, i bought mine with the supra smic and all the pipes already made. using the pipes that came with the intercooler, which were around 2 1/2" or a little bit larger. with that piping size and the route of the intercooler pipes, i HAD to cut some material off of my talon. as i said before, cutting would depend on the route and size of the pipes.

Matt

edit: i though i had made it more clear in my earlier post, but i guess i didnt. ill try and find pics of my supra smic set up on my talon, and post it later.

 

[stealth mullet]

best pics i could find for now. plus i had changed to t bolt clamps too, which i would recemend using. MY OLD CAR below.

 

[stealth mullet]

with as cheap as fmic's are today it may be worth taking into consideration

not unless your making big power. if you arent, its better to keep the front open for the radiator. there is no need to block it with a fmic.

 

[dsm-onster]

not better if you're not affecting your coolant temps. And there are nickle and dime ways of coping w/ that. It's better to lower your aircharge temps as cool as possible. we all know to what that leads. Besides, bigger front mounts are so cheap. And, they all seam to work very well. If you weant to be sleeper, then I understand. But if that's not a big deal, then the cost of a few more couplers and mandrel bends are by far worth it. If for no other reason than because if someone takes the time to upgrade intercoolers, then likely he/she will want to continue upgrading.

It doesn't take much to outgrow a SMIC bigger than the devil's balls. The old real estate addage definately applies here: location, location, location. Buy once in a good spot. It's a good investment.

 

[ilikespeeding]

not unless your making big power. if you arent, its better to keep the front open for the radiator. there is no need to block it with a fmic.

You really dont need to be making big power. There are people that gained a few ponies by slapping a FMIC on a stock 2G with the t25.

As for the radiator, it should be fine if you are smart. Lose the A/C cond. and you there wont be any difference. If you are still worried about it, run a higher water percentage and lose the themostat.

 

[stealth mullet]

200 mph wind through a 4" thick intercooler core, exits at 14 mph. yeah, that wont affect cooling. :rollseyes:

as for the "extra ponies" from a stock 2g w/ a t25, id like to see that. was that done with an upgraded smic? if there were even gains with a stock t25 2g with a fmic, (even with the massive pressure lose) im sure there would have been better gains with a supra smic because the pressure lose would be less.

fact: stock dsm's run 14's stock, maybe a 13.9 downwind, downhill, etc.
supra smic's are good for at least 12's

by the sounds of it, i dont think the original thread starter is trying to build a car to be faster then a 12 second pass...where is the need for a fmic?

and as for the higher water percentage to coolant and no thermostat...i really wouldnt recemend doing this. especially if you plan on running the car in the winter.

 

[ilikespeeding]

200 mph wind through a 4" thick intercooler core, exits at 14 mph. yeah, that wont affect cooling. :rollseyes:

as for the "extra ponies" from a stock 2g w/ a t25, id like to see that. was that done with an upgraded smic? if there were even gains with a stock t25 2g with a fmic, (even with the massive pressure lose) im sure there would have been better gains with a supra smic because the pressure lose would be less.

fact: stock dsm's run 14's stock, maybe a 13.9 downwind, downhill, etc.
supra smic's are good for at least 12's

by the sounds of it, i dont think the original thread starter is trying to build a car to be faster then a 12 second pass...where is the need for a fmic?

and as for the higher water percentage to coolant and no thermostat...i really wouldnt recemend doing this. especially if you plan on running the car in the winter.

FMIC + T25 Links
T-25 + FMIC

Link #2

Where the site general says he runs a FMIC w/ T25

First, no one would put a 4 inch intercooler on a T-25. 200 mph wind would not drop down to 14 mph. Did you just make all of that up? Hell, you can see thru the intercooler if you look at it strait. A 200 mph wind would turn a 10 year old into a kite, so Im pretty sure it'll have no trouble going thru something designed to pass air thru. EDIT: If air exited at 14 MPH, then the intercooler would have zero efficiency. If what you made up was true, then air would bottleneck like hell in the fins and it wouldnt cool.

Aslong as you're smart, and put the coolant percentage back when it gets cold, then it cant hurt. Being July, it's a pretty good time to throw some water in. The only purpose of the themostat is for comfort. It's to allow the coolant to heat up quickly so we aren't cold in our cars. It takes about 10 minutes to remove and/or replace the themostat.

 

[stealth mullet]

FMIC + T25 Links
T-25 + FMIC

Link #2

Where the site general says he runs a FMIC w/ T25

First, no one would put a 4 inch intercooler on a T-25. 200 mph wind would not drop down to 14 mph. Did you just make all of that up? Hell, you can see thru the intercooler if you look at it strait. A 200 mph wind would turn a 10 year old into a kite, so Im pretty sure it'll have no trouble going thru something designed to pass air thru. EDIT: If air exited at 14 MPH, then the intercooler would have zero efficiency. If what you made up was true, then air would bottleneck like hell in the fins and it wouldnt cool.

Aslong as you're smart, and put the coolant percentage back when it gets cold, then it cant hurt. Being July, it's a pretty good time to throw some water in. The only purpose of the themostat is for comfort. It's to allow the coolant to heat up quickly so we aren't cold in our cars. It takes about 10 minutes to remove and/or replace the themostat.

where in those thread that you posted have any NUMBERS in there?

fact: radiators have a very high drag coeficient.

radiators are great heat exchangers. and thats basically it.

and as for my "crazy" numbers, in looking for that article as we speak. obviously i dont think anyone would put a 4" thick core on a t25, but its just to show you people that an intercooler DOES slow down the speed of air as it passes through the intercooler, and would hinder the efficience of the radiator.

and as for the more water versus coolant, its also another great way to increase corrosion in the engine. my $.02, its just a hacks way to get "horsepower." keep reading your hot rod magazines and doing all those 5hp mods.

do things right the first time, i would not recemend a fmic for a mildly modified, stock boost dsm. waste of money. you would have much better gains with water/meth.

ive help install a meth kit on a typhoon with a friend with a stock intercooler. yeah i know it uses a water to air heat exchanger, but we got the intake air temps from 110 degrees all the way down to 57-58 degrees logged through a standalone program. your telling me a fmic could do that, no way.

 

[dsm-onster]

where in those thread that you posted have any NUMBERS in there?

fact: radiators have a very high drag coeficient.

radiators are great heat exchangers. and thats basically it.

and as for my "crazy" numbers, in looking for that article as we speak. obviously i dont think anyone would put a 4" thick core on a t25, but its just to show you people that an intercooler DOES slow down the speed of air as it passes through the intercooler, and would hinder the efficience of the radiator.

and as for the more water versus coolant, its also another great way to increase corrosion in the engine. my $.02, its just a hacks way to get "horsepower." keep reading your hot rod magazines and doing all those 5hp mods.

What? automobile manufacturers have recommended to use a summer mix and a winter mix of coolant for years. You can get away w/ 15% anti-freeze in the summer. This will be enough to still lubricate the water pump properly.

do things right the first time, i would not recemend a fmic for a mildly modified, stock boost dsm. waste of money. you would have much better gains with water/meth.

Talk about a waste. Water/meth injection on a car running stock boost.

ive help install a meth kit on a typhoon with a friend with a stock intercooler. yeah i know it uses a water to air heat exchanger, but we got the intake air temps from 110 degrees all the way down to 57-58 degrees logged through a standalone program. your telling me a fmic could do that, no way.

A supra smic and meth injection will have to work harder to get intake temps down than a FMIC and meth injection. Any decent fmic flows way more air than a supra smic. So consequently, the pressure drop across the FMIC ic is less. This also helps the compressor put less heat into the aircharge. Though this may be a small amound of difference, adding all the '$5 mods' together help. The difference in FLOW is noticable and can been logged.

i've run a stock sidemount and water/meth injection. I'll never do it again. The tube and fin intercooler is just way too restrictive. My small 16 was busting its a$$ to run 20 psi in the intake manifold. The supra sidemount is a tube and fin also. It's bigger and can flow more. But the location is still poor and it still can't flow nearly as much as most ebay bar and plate FMICs.

t25 or not. If you can run 300whp you WILL see a difference swapping from a supra sidemount to FMIC. I can see the t25 arguement making sense. But throwing out there that a FMIC is not very useful for 350hp or less means that you've never run or tuned with a FMIC on your 300hp 14B/small16g powered dsm. You can max out either turbo on pump gas and a decent tune w/ a FMIC. I'm a firm believer in water injection. I wrote a tech article on it. But, it adds another complication that also has to be tuned and be built for reliability. A FMIC is a bolton mod. easy to maintain. For a 350hp or less car, I would think that one wants to have LESS complication in the engine bay.

Stock sidemounts, not just supra sidemounts, have taken guys to 12s. He!! I went 13.4 on stock EVERYTHING in the engine bay including intercooler on cheap 225 street radials and FWD. But it's much EASIER when you have a much cooler aircharge. Much easier to tune those high timing advances of an SAFC or MAFT. That's simple to see. Make it easier on yourself. You can get a FMIC and pipe it all for around $200 if you pay attention to ebay. Running the factory recommended 25% or less antifreeze during the summer months is likely all you'll need. And you can still keep your ac heat exchanger.

That comes to my final point. Have you seen how tight the fins are on the ac heat exchanger? It covers the radiator entirely, as well. But the radiator still manages to cool the coolant just fine.

Another trick to keeping the coolant down is to keep the airdam duct. When mounting the FMIC, cut the duct so that IC has a snig fit IN the duct. But don't remove it or cut the duct in a spot where there is no FMIC or piping. If you do, then you're making an oem system inferior to stock, then putting a big FMIC in front of it.

I agree that a FMIC slows the flow of air gettign to the radiator. But, do things right the first time: not destorying/chucking the radiator air duct, running the recommended mix of antifreeze or watter wetter, perhaps a bit coolter thermostat, and a FMIC that cools much better for your little turbo. Even if the air is moving a bit slower, if has no choice but to go throught the radiator then it will still cool fine. Wire both fans on if you're still having problems. This will guarantee a good airflow.

The Lancer Evolution 1-8 runs a FMIC and has well under 300 whp. FMICs and 300whp cars seam like a good idea to manufacturers.

 

[oldman420]

Go fmic, punishment racing has a bomb package for only 489.00 shipped. Then you never have to worry about upgrading again untill 550whp. From my experiance with cars its always better to build it for higher hp than you intending on running. Why do you think oem does this? Longevity!!!!

 

[viridionplague]

i think a smaller fmic would be a good idea, lots of good reasons that dsm-onster listed there, something like one of those 8 inch high ones with short rout piping would be perfect for your application, while still exposing a good portion of your radiator and allowing a little quicker spool because of the shorter piping. pressure drop would be minimal at best and there cheap to boot

 

[dsm-onster]

i think a smaller fmic would be a good idea, lots of good reasons that dsm-onster listed there, something like one of those 8 inch high ones with short rout piping would be perfect for your application, while still exposing a good portion of your radiator and allowing a little quicker spool because of the shorter piping. pressure drop would be minimal at best and there cheap to boot

Yea i'm running a 9" X 21" X2.5" bar and plate core. It does fine it's been 95 degrees for 1 week straight here. I got the sucker for $120 shipped. It flows great. I match it w/ water/meth injection and my intake manifold is COLD (like 40 degrees cold) to the touch after a 1320 run.

BTW the small16g is back on. How quick this turbo spools just makes me laugh! I love this little turbo. It's like 'the six million dollar 14b'. retains all the characteristics of the 14b including appearance, but REALLY pulls and right at 2500 rpms. I'm glad I have this turbo to fall back on since my 60-1 crapped itself.

I just did a 22 psi pull on the 60-1 tune. Zero knock. I have cams and below ambient intercooling on a 1g head/intake. Fun stuff.

 

[dsun87]

i just got my fmic 27x7x2.5 i was thinking of a stock supra smic but i like the look the the fmic better
alot meaner but if your going with a sleeper look get a supra fmic