2G Stiffest Coilover options?

[Xploitn]

Hey guys, I'm going to be doing a race setup on my GSX and I've been reading Dennis Grants book so I'm already learning a lot. I haven't gotten the car weighed or taken the measurements yet, but I know that since its going to be a deticated racer using wide, sticky racing slicks I will probably want to run higher than 700 in the front.

A I right in thinking that the koni yellows topped out near 700? Can anyone confirm this, my dad runs yellows in his RSX and this is what he thinks. I don't know much about revalving coilovers yet but would this be an option? What are some of the other options that have that would be adjustable and with high spring rates?

I know I have learning to do, thanks in advance for the thoughts, help, and opinions.

-Brian

Possible Solution:
I saw DGR had a group buy that offered a track kit that advertised 1300 and was adjustable. Any thoughts? Could I still do the custom top hats for these coilovers?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/vendor-announcements/419662-dgr-suspension-group-buy-2-0-a.html

 

[mb3000]

DG recommends Bilstiens > typical overseas coilovers.

 

[Xploitn]

Some of his info is outdated, like his suggestions for tires Some tires that he suggests aren't made anymore and there are new ones on the market.

I wasn't sure if the Bilstiens were the same.

Thanks for the input

 

[PatricksEvo8]

Bilsteins are amazing I'm running the HD's on my car with Swift Spec-R springs and sway bars. Way better than coilovers unless you're dropping big bucks on KW's

 

[Xploitn]

Three questions:

Can anyone confirm the upper limit on the koni yellows?

I was just looking at the KW product line, are the Variant 3's the only option available to our cars?

Could we do the " KW Clubsport" or the "KW Competition"? I don't really need the wide range of adjustment on the V3's because it'll be a deticated track and autocross racer, I do want the ability to adjust some for when my weight, wheels, or supporting mods change.

Thanks

 

[greengoblin]

Robi spec can build you a set of k&w to suit your needs. They will cost you however but they work. On the koni unit contact snowboarder714. He will know for sure.

 

[Xploitn]

The Robi Spec KW's are on sale right now but their price probably doesn't include the 2g's special top hats. You're right though, they are a pretty penny! I will call them when I have that much money, which thankfully should be before the next season.

I know Snowborder and his Bro gotta know, I was hoping they'd pipe up here but I can pst them.

Thanks Greengoblin

 

[rr06rs]

Or you could try these. Trust me...you WON'T be sorry....

AMR Engineering | Product Details

 

[Xploitn]

Aw snap! They said lifetime warranty!

like always thanks for the heads up!

 

[snowborder714]

A I right in thinking that the koni yellows topped out near 700? Can anyone confirm this, my dad runs yellows in his RSX and this is what he thinks. I don't know much about revalving coilovers yet but would this be an option? What are some of the other options that have that would be adjustable and with high spring rates?

The fronts can handle more than 700 without being revalved. I know Scott McIntyre is running 900/400 with his 17x10 +12 with 275/40R17 setup. This is on stock valving as far as I'm aware.

The rears shouldn't really be run above 400-450 as that's pretty much the max.


What spring rates do you want to run, and what makes you think you need something higher than what the valving can handle? I've yet to see someone who needs ridiculous front springs other than Scott. he's also running with the SPC front upper control arms which like to make contact with the shock tower.

If you can at least get an idea on the corner weights and sway bar measurements that you plan on running, you can see what spring rates are recommended. I've put my car into this calculator with my corner weights (as measured) and RM sway bars both front and rear and got a recommended 800/300 spring combo.
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets16.html


Revalving is an option. This is one place that does it.
Truechoice Koni Racing Services

Possible Solution:
I saw DGR had a group buy that offered a track kit that advertised 1300 and was adjustable. Any thoughts? Could I still do the custom top hats for these coilovers?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/vendor-announcements/419662-dgr-suspension-group-buy-2-0-a.html

Not the same quality as a Koni/Hypercoil setup. These are on par with Megan, Tein, etc.

I was just looking at the KW product line, are the Variant 3's the only option available to our cars?

Correct, they're the only option.

Could we do the " KW Clubsport" or the "KW Competition"? I don't really need the wide range of adjustment on the V3's because it'll be a deticated track and autocross racer, I do want the ability to adjust some for when my weight, wheels, or supporting mods change.

As far as I know those models aren't made for our car.

On the koni unit contact snowboarder714. He will know for sure.

I know Snowborder and his Bro gotta know, I was hoping they'd pipe up here but I can pst them.

You guys can PM me and let me know to pipe in here

Or you could try these. Trust me...you WON'T be sorry....

AMR Engineering | Product Details

I'm still skeptical about these. I have yet to see any data on them, especially stuff that will prove they as well aren't on the same level as any other OTS coilover made for these cars. They are assembled in the USA, but could possibly get their parts from the same few manufacturing plants overseas that produce the other company's parts. I just don't know anything about the product.

Here's a thread on them that a few of us have had input into.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/444966-amr-engineering-coilovers.html

Not quite sure why they have a random DSMtalk link on the product site either.

I also found a video about their machine work comparison, but it literally was around how their tooling is better as it makes the plate smooth and without grooves. Yes, that's nice that they make a smooth, shiny upper hat, but that does nothing to tell me if your product is good for its intention.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXZP4P6X7Q4

 

[rr06rs]

You should email Andy, the owner. He's always receptive to input. Also, the English Racing guys are VERY familiar with them and have been using their products for some time.

 

[Xploitn]

What spring rates do you want to run, and what makes you think you need something higher than what the valving can handle?

When I was talking to my dad he was speculating that 700 wouldn't be stiff enough on R-comps that are 9" wide. He is an engineer gone autocrosser and has gone off the deep end in the science of suspension. Unfortunately I dont live with him or I'd pick his brain!

Doug Grants site also hinted at high rates, I still have more to read though.

If you can at least get an idea on the corner weights and sway bar measurements that you plan on running, you can see what spring rates are recommended. I've put my car into this calculator with my corner weights (as measured) and RM sway bars both front and rear and got a recommended 800/300 spring combo.
Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - Dynamics Calculator

I'm glad to hear that the Koni's might work. I was reading Doug Grants site and his measuring and weighing technique.

How much would a shop charge for weighing a vehicle? Do I need to go to a speciality shop? Can you rent corner weights? I don't know anyone who own them.

I do plan on doing the RM sway bars as well as that seems like the best choice

My current plan was to do wheels/tires, then coilovers, then swaybar, then maybe poly or solid bushings. I was going to do it in that order but I am open to suggestions. I am definitely doing wheels and tires first though.

My plan for the sway bars was to dial in the under steer or over steer that I will be getting once i have my preferred tires, wheels, and coilovers. Then simply fine tune the balance of the handling with tire pressure.

If this seems over simplified, its probably because I haven't learned/read about it. I learn so much every time JTMcinder tells some other member that they are a fool! !

Not quite sure why they have a random DSMtalk link on the product site either.

I saw that too, confusing indeed!

 

[snowborder714]

When I was talking to my dad he was speculating that 700 wouldn't be stiff enough on R-comps that are 9" wide.

I wonder what his reasoning on this would be. As long as you don't slam the car, I don't see why it'd be an issue, nor why R-comp vs. street tires would make a difference. FWIW, my brother is running Hankook RS3's (140 treadwear rating) on a 17x9 +35 wheel on 650 front springs and SPC upper control arms (with additional bump stop spacers for the arms). No issues other than the arms lightly contacting the shock tower.

How much would a shop charge for weighing a vehicle? Do I need to go to a speciality shop? Can you rent corner weights? I don't know anyone who own them.

No idea actually. I went with the solution of just buying my own since the cheapest anyone around me would do is $300 for corner balance and alignment and I've got 2 cars (my brother and I) who will use the setup..

I don't think you can rent them. The only place I know down near you who has a set is RRT Racing. Or you can send me an offer to rent mine

 

[Xploitn]

I wonder what his reasoning on this would be.

Actually I can pm you his thoughts, this was an email he sent me a couple weeks ago. Id post it but its long, and I'm not sure how you moderators would like it


I just read
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/168643-lateral-grip-vs-weight-transfer.html
and I now know that my previous post about using the sway bar to fix non-balanced handling is wrong

My plan for the sway bars was to dial in the under steer or over steer that I will be getting once i have my preferred tires, wheels, and coilovers.

 

[snowborder714]

Good read, and your dad seems know what he's talking about (lines up with what I know and tell people). What I don't get is where you got the idea you need 1000 lb+ front springs from that reading. A good starting point for our cars that'll be used for autox is a 700/350 or so combo (might have to go higher). You'll want to shoot for about a 2:1 ratio for front spring to rear spring. I'd start off with both sway bars and a set of springs you think should work and then go from there.

You can use either 2.25" springs or 2.5" springs with a Koni, depending on the setup you go with.

Feel free to PM jtmcinder and get him in here. Or even ScottMcIntyre. They both have a great wealth of knowledge around suspension setups for autox as they both have competed.

 

[Xploitn]

What I don't get is where you got the idea you need 1000 lb+ front springs from that reading.

To be honest, I don't know what I read or how I got thinking that either, I found a couple good threads that'll keep me reading for the rest of the night.

As always, thanks for all the help!

DSMTUNERS!

 

[snowborder714]

Also, feel free to post up what you shared with me if you'd like. Not anything that hasn't been said on here anyway, but it's up to you if you want to post it.