Starts one day, Cranks the next

[TheYoungDSMer]

I recently bought an Eagle Talon Tsi (M/T), Test drove it, Then Got it home, The car set 4 days after arriving at my home. The car came with both a fair share of issues and aftermarket parts, It has an SAFC II, AEM wideband, EVO III Big 16G, 550cc Injectors, along with some other less important parts. The car used to be a stock 7 bolt, but then was swapped to a 6 bolt, with the 7 bolt head. The car ran the day of the purchase, but we had been told it had a bent intake valve on the 4th cylinder. The car made it home fine, no issues at all. A work week passed and I went to go work with the car, then it just cranks and cranks. So then came the test for fuel, spark, and compression. The car has spark, 12.34V on the injectors, havent checked resistance, There is fuel on the fuel rail, and is fuel making it to the engine, because there was fuel on the spark plugs when I checked for spark. I think that the problem may be ECU, but I was reading and people said the 2g ECUs don't usually fail, so as of now I'm at a stand still and can't drive my new vehicle, If anyone has any ideas, how to help or what I can do, Please Help

Thanks in Advanced!

 

[cliffkemp]

I recently bought an Eagle Talon Tsi (M/T), Test drove it, Then Got it home, The car set 4 days after arriving at my home. The car came with both a fair share of issues and aftermarket parts, It has an SAFC II, AEM wideband, EVO III Big 16G, 550cc Injectors, along with some other less important parts. The car used to be a stock 7 bolt, but then was swapped to a 6 bolt, with the 7 bolt head. The car ran the day of the purchase, but we had been told it had a bent intake valve on the 4th cylinder. The car made it home fine, no issues at all. A work week passed and I went to go work with the car, then it just cranks and cranks. So then came the test for fuel, spark, and compression. The car has spark, 12.34V on the injectors, havent checked resistance, There is fuel on the fuel rail, and is fuel making it to the engine, because there was fuel on the spark plugs when I checked for spark. I think that the problem may be ECU, but I was reading and people said the 2g ECUs don't usually fail, so as of now I'm at a stand still and can't drive my new vehicle, If anyone has any ideas, how to help or what I can do, Please Help

Thanks in Advanced!

Check to make sure nothing fell off like a hose, wire of significance, and any connection that would cause a no start. Check the coolant temp. sensor and make sure it is functioning as it can cause a no start too. Check for any broken or partly broken wires going to and from the coil unit and the CAS. If it was running when you got the car, the computer is probably not the issue. Check all your fuses as well to be sure there is not a blown one by chance.

 

[mchustle]

I recently bought an Eagle Talon Tsi (M/T), Test drove it, Then Got it home, The car set 4 days after arriving at my home. The car came with both a fair share of issues and aftermarket parts, It has an SAFC II, AEM wideband, EVO III Big 16G, 550cc Injectors, along with some other less important parts. The car used to be a stock 7 bolt, but then was swapped to a 6 bolt, with the 7 bolt head. The car ran the day of the purchase, but we had been told it had a bent intake valve on the 4th cylinder. The car made it home fine, no issues at all. A work week passed and I went to go work with the car, then it just cranks and cranks. So then came the test for fuel, spark, and compression. The car has spark, 12.34V on the injectors, havent checked resistance, There is fuel on the fuel rail, and is fuel making it to the engine, because there was fuel on the spark plugs when I checked for spark. I think that the problem may be ECU, but I was reading and people said the 2g ECUs don't usually fail, so as of now I'm at a stand still and can't drive my new vehicle, If anyone has any ideas, how to help or what I can do, Please Help

Thanks in Advanced!

What were the compression results? And I think you may have read wrong about 2g ecus failing because I've personally seen 3 including my own fail, so don't rule that out. If you think it is the ecu I would try and find a friend with one if possible to try before you go and buy one and that not be the problem.

 

[Sir Joke]

the 2g ecus fail... Don't go on the words of the lucky ones. On a car you can't rule out anything until you've checked.

 

[007jimmy]

What were the compression results? And I think you may have read wrong about 2g ecus failing because I've personally seen 3 including my own fail, so don't rule that out. If you think it is the ecu I would try and find a friend with one if possible to try before you go and buy one and that not be the problem.

Yes, what was the compression results? How do you know you have 1 bent intake valve? As for the ECU, pull it out and open it up. Check for leaking caps and board damage. Bad ECUs can have a strange smell.

 

[TheYoungDSMer]

Well to the compression question I'm young, and Have limited experience with car's, so I don't know how to test compression, but The timings still spot on, and the car ran....So I don't know if that has anything to do, but I think the car is okay on that side, but If someone can tell me what I need to do a compression test, I'll try to obtain the item's, and I've read that if the fault was the ecu, the CEL wouldn't light up, and It doesn't but the idea of "unfailing ECUs" confused me, are there anythings I can check on the ECU to see if its faulty? We tried pulling codes but there weren't any. This is my first car, and I'm working on getting it going

 

[Dsm304]

Could be ## ecu I just fixed mine but mine gave me codes and every time it gave me codes (check engine light) the car wouldent start is ## light on??? It can be many things like crank sensor or the cam angle sensor

Sorry about that I kinda send it late haha all u need to do a compression test is a compression test kit not sure how much it is but pretty sure its not expensive its a gauge and a couple of hoses with theads on them that go where the spark plugs go then you take the fuse for fuel pump off or just so engine wount turn on just crank and u should get ## readings

 

[TheYoungDSMer]

I'll look into the compression kit, and I'm sorry :/ What do you mean by ## ECU? Pretty much the ## is throwing me off.

 

[Dsm304]

I'll look into the compression kit, and I'm sorry :/ What do you mean by ## ECU? Pretty much the ## is throwing me off.

Sorry bout that I had miss spelled (your) so that ## appears haha

 

[mchustle]

If your check engine light doesn't come on when you first turn the key, the ecu is toast, UNLESS the bulb for the cel is not working. It is unlikely but possible. That's not always a give away though my cel light came on but the ecu was toast. One thing mine did even though the cel came on when I turned the key, my factory boost gauge didn't move like it is suppose to. Turn the key to the on position if the cel light doesn't light up and the boost gauge doesn't go up the ecu is gone. If its just the light you can change the bulb and try again.

A compression tester is usually $25-$30, and harbor freight is the cheapest place usually. When you test the compression just pull the engine fuse and take all the spark plugs out to get the highest compression possible.

 

[TheYoungDSMer]

The Check engine light never turns on, I think it's supposed to turn on for 5 seconds and then go off in working condition, and I think that could be the problem, is there a way if could have just worked and died on the way home after purchase? What kind of things can cause it to die?

 

[mchustle]

My ecu crapped out without any warning I just got in the car a day after I parked it and it wouldn't start. Through in the spare EPROM I had to the side waiting for link and it started right up. It is suppose to come on for 5 secs. See if the boost gauge moves when you turn the key, if it does it's not a guarantee the ecu is working, but if it doesn't and the cel is lighting up I would lay money it's the ecu.

 

[TheYoungDSMer]

Well, The boost gauge does go halfway up, but the CEL doesn't light up, you sound like you had the same scenario as me, so I'll look into taking out the ECU, I know where it's at I just don't know how to get to it, do I have to take out the 2 relays and then just unbolt it or will I have to take apart the dash?

 

[mchustle]

You just have to take both bottom panels off the driver and passenger side. Then the ecu has 2 10mm bolts on the driver side and one 10mm bolt on the passenger side. Only tools you need is a 10mm socket and ratchet and a Phillips screw driver, and takes about 5mins. If you google it there will be visual instructions on here somewhere.

A nice trick I learned since I hat the search feature on here (no offense), is to type in site:dsmtuners.com and then what I'm looking for on google and it will only show results for this site.

 

[TheYoungDSMer]

Well, I'll go do that right now, how can I tell if it's damaged, the smell, and visually?

 

[mchustle]

Just take the cover off the the ecu (4 Phillips head bolts), and visually inspect for burns or leaking caps. Sometime you can smell a burn or the caps leaking. Mine showed no signs of anything unfortunately.
Also if I remember correctly there is a copper ground strip that like to burn up in the ecu and if that is the problem there is a write up somewhere about soldering in a new ground which is suppose to be pretty easy. Sorry I usually try to find all the links I'm talking about, but I just don't have time right now.

 

[TheYoungDSMer]

Well I looked at the ecu, The caps seemed fine but, there was yellow looking acidic kind of things that I didn't think we're right, I don't know if that could cause a problem, but I also checked for the burnt ground and it was fine.....Should I just do rechecks for spark, compression, and fuel?

 

[mchustle]

Ok I'll let someone more knowledgable about ecus chime in. I would check for spark again by pulling the plugs and checking them, then pull the fuel rail and lay it on a piece of cardboard ontop of the valve cover and make sure they are all spraying. Then buy a compression tester and post results.

 

[TheYoungDSMer]

How can I tell if the compression is incorrect? I checked spark and we have a blue spark....There is fuel, I don't know if at the right pressure, but it's getting to the engine, we might pick up a fuel pressure gauge, but can you hear or tell by how fast it's cranking or anything?

 

[mchustle]

If you get a compression tester it comes with a hose attached to a gauge and you thread that into the spark plug holes. With all the plugs out thread it into one of the holes and crank it for about 5 secs then go see what number the gauge is on. Write down the number, unscrew the pressure release valve, unscrew the tester, and repeat on cylinders 2,3,4. Report what number you get here and we will go from there.

 

[TheYoungDSMer]

I got a compression testing kit, Did the test on 2 cylinders....Gauge didn't move, I took out all the spark plugs, No fuel is coming out, It's just nothing, any ideas?

 

[eli96talon]

Make sure the throttle body flap is open all the way.also make sure that the shreader valve is in the compression tester hose...if it does have low compression the engine will not start.but seeing as it ran fine a few days before that its strange that the cylinder is dead now.

 

[TheYoungDSMer]

Well, I put the pedal to the metal if that's what you mean, but I already took the compression tester back I'm thinking the issue may be either a flooded engine (A long shot in my mind), or I may have bent more valves driving it home, It was a 3 hour drive.....any opinions? I'm pretty sure the issue is compression, and I think the car tries to start the first go round when I start it, but just makes a loud sound then cranks over and over again

 

[cliffkemp]

As I said before, check all the usual things on the car. If you are not getting fuel/spark, then everything else is pointless. According to what you said earlier, the fuel pump may have gone out or it could be a fuse/relay to any of the ignition system.

Check your relays with known working ones and check your fuses. Before you can say it is your computer, check the obvious stuff first. Check your plugs (gapped to around .028 or so) plug wires for corrosion at the connector at the plug. Check for burn marks on the plug where the wire attaches. Check your fuel line (safely in a well vented area) for pressure and check your injectors for function as well. Since you got a car that may have multiple issues, start with the basics.

Replacing parts at this point is useless if you have a frayed wire or broken wire, bad fuse/relay.

Verify that everything is getting to where it is supposed to be getting like your fuel/spark and then start replacing parts that are known to not be working. It is probably going to take quite a bit of time as electrical problems (if that is the issue) are hard to hunt down sometimes.

 

[TheYoungDSMer]

We checked, Spark on all 4 cylinders, Which it's there. We took the line off the fuel rail and checked for fuel, There's fuel at the fuel rail, I don't know at what pressure but it's there, Then we know there is fuel in the motor, because We replaced the spark plugs, and when we had to do the compression test, they had already had a large amount of fuel on them, The CEL still isn't coming on, but I think that was caused by the wiring job done before us for the SAFC II, We plan on cleaning it up. When we did the compression test we had 0 compression on all the cylinders.....I only know where the 2 relays in the dash are, and I don't know which is which, If you want me to check anything else I will gladly if you can help me find it.