Stage 3 Chip Install - Now Blue Smoke????

[GSXlaunch]

Just installed a stage III chip from Keydiver and now the car smokes (blue) at idle and while revving. It did not smoke before this install. I had the configured for 780cc injectors as I have 75lb injectors. What type of adjustments need to be made to the GM Translator and or SAFC in order to compensate for the chip? My guess is the blue smoke could mean it is leaning out. It seems to idle okay but the smoke is freaking me out. I should mention that the car had been sitting for nearly 2 months while I waited to get another issue resolved with my intake. Any ideas....

This is on my 90 GSX, SCM 61, FP2 Cams....my old 5-knob style afc is set to about -8 to -10 across the board. It smokes even when I richen it up...I am dying to drive my car but wont until I figure out why it is smoking. Thanks fellas.

 

[GSXlaunch]

Never mind...took the car out for a good 10-12 mile drive last night and it did not smoke...atleast I did not see any. Felt darn quick for running only 8 psi.

 

[boostyGST]

might just want to make sure you not running lean man, dont want to have a meltdown.

 

[andymoraitis]

Just installed a stage III chip from Keydiver and now the car smokes (blue) at idle and while revving. It did not smoke before this install. I had the configured for 780cc injectors as I have 75lb injectors. What type of adjustments need to be made to the GM Translator and or SAFC in order to compensate for the chip? My guess is the blue smoke could mean it is leaning out. It seems to idle okay but the smoke is freaking me out. I should mention that the car had been sitting for nearly 2 months while I waited to get another issue resolved with my intake. Any ideas....

This is on my 90 GSX, SCM 61, FP2 Cams....my old 5-knob style afc is set to about -8 to -10 across the board. It smokes even when I richen it up...I am dying to drive my car but wont until I figure out why it is smoking. Thanks fellas.

Glad to hear it's not smoking anymore, but to answer your question, you'd set the MAFT to stock injectors if the chip is handling the compensation. I'd also set the AFC to 0 across the board and log a 3rd gear pull to see what it shows with relation to knock and timing. Once you know where you stand on a baseline, you can either add or remove more fuel as needed with the AFC for fine tuning purposes.

Hope that helps!

Andy

 

[GSXlaunch]

Thanks fellas. I am going to drive it again tonight...I still have to get my dual stage dejon tool boost controller hooked up. I'd like to start tuning at 13-15psi on pump and eventually run 25-30psi on 116 race gas. I will set the translator to 450cc...thanks again.

 

[andymoraitis]

Thanks fellas. I am going to drive it again tonight...I still have to get my dual stage dejon tool boost controller hooked up. I'd like to start tuning at 13-15psi on pump and eventually run 25-30psi on 116 race gas. I will set the translator to 450cc...thanks again.

Sounds great, just don't forget to set the AFC to zero as well so that you have an even baseline. Have fun and good luck with your tuning.

Andy

 

[GSXlaunch]

FYI...I set the trans to 450cc (just two clicks clockwise on the base knob) and set the safc to 0 across the board. Car drives fine that way, but didnt seem to pull as hard...I leaned out the 4000, 5600 and 7400 rpm points about -6 and it seemed to help somewhat. My guess is I am running rich with everything zero'd out. Unfortunately, my data logger is a piece of crap so it will take some time to get use to it's readings. I am hooking up the stutter box wire mod this weekend. I actually drove the car to work today. (knock on wood) but it is driving pretty good. I just wish this turbo wasnt so laggy. Thanks again.

 

[andymoraitis]

FYI...I set the trans to 450cc (just two clicks clockwise on the base knob) and set the safc to 0 across the board. Car drives fine that way, but didnt seem to pull as hard...I leaned out the 4000, 5600 and 7400 rpm points about -6 and it seemed to help somewhat. My guess is I am running rich with everything zero'd out. Unfortunately, my data logger is a piece of crap so it will take some time to get use to it's readings. I am hooking up the stutter box wire mod this weekend. I actually drove the car to work today. (knock on wood) but it is driving pretty good. I just wish this turbo wasnt so laggy. Thanks again.

What you're likely experiencing is the "safety margin" that Jeff builds into his chips. Unless instructed otherwise, they come with the factory 9.5:1 A/F and I don't need to tell you how rich that is. Since I have zero fuel control (no AFC and no AFPR) on larger injectors, we leaned out the A/F to 11:1 and went for 23 degrees of advance instead of 16 and it made a huge difference (.7 and 5 mph in the 1/4).

Even if you're having trouble with the logger, you can dial up boost on your current tune until you see knock if you had Jeff do the knock sum conversion the boost gauge. 1-3 counts at the top of 3rd is likely a great place to start and the consensus on NABR is that tuning for zero is unnecessary. 1-3 counts should produce great power and not harm the internals. I would still keep the AFC at zero and start dialing up boost until you see some knock and that'll tell you the limits on your pump has tune.

Keep us posted on how it goes,

Andy

 

[anconover]

just curious, any of you guys get 43counts of knock at 4.5k+ like clockwork? My friend and I peg the knock gauge at 4.5k or 5k everytime we go WOT wether it be at 15psi, or 24psi. I have 880's etc. Friend dumped in 115octane and it calmed it a little which points to real knock, but ive replaced everything in the car, and it does it at 14psi even. Before the chip i ran 24psi on pump all day long. After the chip with changing nothing else, its a knock fest.

 

[andymoraitis]

just curious, any of you guys get 43counts of knock at 4.5k+ like clockwork? My friend and I peg the knock gauge at 4.5k or 5k everytime we go WOT wether it be at 15psi, or 24psi. I have 880's etc. Friend dumped in 115octane and it calmed it a little which points to real knock, but ive replaced everything in the car, and it does it at 14psi even. Before the chip i ran 24psi on pump all day long. After the chip with changing nothing else, its a knock fest.

At 21-22 psi on my setup with a stock sidemount, I never see more than 5 counts. I'm wondering what the logger is telling you with respect to timing. Also, is the chip handling the compensation? If it is and the MAFT is still set for compensation then it's definitely real knock. I'd do the same thing as recommended above. Set the MAFT to stock injectors, zero the AFC and see what happens to knock.

Also, I didn't see an AFPR in your profile. If you do have one, you may want to make sure that fuel pressure is where it needs to be. As a final measure, you may want to replace the knock sensor. After close to 15 years, it could be on the way out and you could be experiencing phantom knock.

Please let us know what you find,

Andy

 

[anconover]

chip is controlling the compensation. Maft and s-afc are zerod out. BRAND NEW knock sensor, new everything on the car pretty much. Ive tried as much as +20% fuel, and -20% fuel with no change in respect to knock. And its like clockwork at 4.5k. AFPR is at 37psi. Swap out the chip, car runs fine. Ive tried 3-4 diff chips from jeff, everyones been doing this. Friends is EXACTLY the same too =[


and its pulling timing alright. last time i checked i was hovering around 0-6*of timing. When i first got the chip, car ran 100% perfect no knock at 24psi, for about 3 days. then this problem. Ive put in new eprom ecu, new chips, new knock sensor, every sensor possible has been replaced.

 

[andymoraitis]

chip is controlling the compensation. Maft and s-afc are zerod out. BRAND NEW knock sensor, new everything on the car pretty much. Ive tried as much as +20% fuel, and -20% fuel with no change in respect to knock. And its like clockwork at 4.5k. AFPR is at 37psi. Swap out the chip, car runs fine. Ive tried 3-4 diff chips from jeff, everyones been doing this. Friends is EXACTLY the same too =[

Wow, you've really covered ALL the bases on this one. The fact that you've tried adding and leaning out seems to point to the chip (duh, I know). Between the AFC and MAFT can you lean out enough that the chip isn't necessary and you can achieve a good state of tune?

I know you probably have already, but I'd get in touch with Jeff and see if he can burn you a new one. Maybe having make one with a leaner A/F around 11:1 while keeping the injector compensation will help. I'd try that, keep that MAFT and AFC at zero and see if that makes a difference.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help and I feel your frustration,

Andy

 

[anconover]

Maft/s-afc alone with the 880cc's throws the timing all sorts of crazy. Ive gone through 4 *new* chips. Even have a pk code chip in now cuz i was having lotsa part throttle knock. Thats gone now but damnit this sucks.

 

[andymoraitis]

Maft/s-afc alone with the 880cc's throws the timing all sorts of crazy. Ive gone through 4 *new* chips. Even have a pk code chip in now cuz i was having lotsa part throttle knock. Thats gone now but damnit this sucks.

I'm wondering if it's possible to have him NOT do injector compensation and simply cap your timing at say 18-19 degrees. You might want to PM Steve and see if this is possible since it may allow you to tune with MAFT/AFC combo and not drive the timing insane.

Just a thought,

Andy

 

[anconover]

i explained my problems, and he always said he 'changed a few things, try this'. He doesnt like to give much detail i noticed. But the chips are burned for 850cc as my 880cc's flow more like 850's at 37psi base FP. Ive got pk code and every other goodie he offers.

 

[andymoraitis]

Another thing just whacked me in the head. Have you checked your base timing with and without the chip. If so what is it set to? I'm just trying to cover everything here and I'm also wondering if there isn't a timing issue with the chip.

Andy

 

[anconover]

its at 5* right now. Ive tried 0*, 3*, 5*, 8* =P

 

[andymoraitis]

Since you've tried everything possible and I can't think of anything else that it may be, I'd have Steve try a chip for you or see if he has ideas. Perhaps someone else with more experience in EPROM/MAFT/AFC combinations can suggest something more than I have.

Either way, please keep us posted on what eventually fixes it since I'd like to learn for my own personal knowledge.

Andy

 

[GSXlaunch]

anconover, I have the same set up as you; stage 3 chip/maft/AFC. Although I am still only running 8-10lbs of boost, the car is running very rich. Yesterday I decided to go wot in 3rd...it sputtered badly right at 4500-5k rpms...my knock (boost) gauge jumped a little but not quite to the "0" on the gauge. I leaned out the 4400 and 5600 rpm points about 2-3 clicks and the car pulled much harder with out the sputter. The fact that the factory boost gauge is even moving at this low boost level concerns me. I did not have my logger hooked up as I didnt feel I needed it running that boost level. I am going to up the boost to about 15 or so and put the afc back to "0". The maft is still set for 450's. To be honest, I am not real sure that since the boost gauge did not reach "0" that it is actual reading knock. Anyone with more experience can correct me on that. I do have another ? about the stutter box mod. I did the wiring (correctly) and the stutter box does not engage. The car revs freely up to 6500+ with the clutch pedal in???? My e-brake light has been on constantly for the last 3-4 months and I am wondering if this is what is causing the stutter mod not to work properly. If so, would disconnecting that light fix the problem??? Thanks again for any help and anconover I hope you find out what is causing that knock.

 

[anconover]

if your 100% positive its wired in correctly, check to make sure your clutch sensor is plugged in. And make sure its good. Trying putting the car in neutral and starting it without depressing the clutch, if it starts, sensor is unplugged or not working.

 

[GSXlaunch]

uh oh...it starts with the clutch out...I'll check the connections. Thanks