someone help me before i shoot my car

[jamison2216]

so i have a 95 rs, and when running it pumps smoke out of the pcv hose, intake hose, and exhaust. I figured that the problem was in the piston rings, today i finally get the pistons out...the rings look fine, what the @$%* is wrong with my car

 

[hhuricane]

The rings may look fine but have you actually measured them? What kind of mileage on the car? Have you done a compression test or a leak down test? Still sounds like blow by to me.

 

[jamison2216]

havent measured them yet, 136,xxx miles on it, havent done a compression test, and how do you even do a leak down test?

 

[96mitsugsx]

You should've done those tests before you tore down your engine.

 

[wicketywacker96]

Does it always smoke, is it just at idle??? I ask because my car smoked real bad at idle but would clear up while driving. I replaced to valve stem seals and it completely fixed the problem.

 

[Julioluko]

Whoa buddy the compression test definitely should have been your first plan of, it where you thread in a compression gauge (35 bones @ Advance Auto) into your spark plug holes and you turn the engine over and see how much pressure the cylinder will hold. By doing this you can find out if you have bad rings, a stuck valve, all sorts of fun things. Was the car idling bad before this?

 

[jamison2216]

it was running fine until one day smoke starts pouring out from my hood and since then the car has been like this, it was running horribly getting it home after the incident, i wanted to do the compression test first but for some reason i let my dad and his dumbass friend talk me out of it

 

[djtrickstick]

yeah leak down and compression first step saves time, from my experience (i have had 15 cars in my lifetime and im 20) smoking is 1 or more of 3 things, piston rings, valve seals, or headgasket. if your oil is good color and isnt watery i usualy rule out headgasket, then its between piston rings and seals. since it sounds like you tore down the motor already its easy to tell usually look at the sidewalls of cylinder if it seems like all the way around the inner sides you see what seems like oil it most like rings, if you see drops everywhere its probably valve seals leaking down into cylinders, but since you got rings off mine as well replace those and put it back together, if it still smokes i bet money you got bad valve seals. hope this helps remember every car is different

 

[Spoolin18]

Valve guides can leak also on DSMs.

 

[jamison2216]

this morning i discovered that although the rings looked fine, pistons 1 and 2 were broken, im guessing that they broke because of a bad transalxe mount which shook the motor when i started to move, pistons, and rings are being replaced, along with the transaxle mount. Im also going to be checking all of the valves to catch anything that may be wrong with them

 

[gstryyder]

sooo... have you ruled out bad valve seals, valve seats... and all that? do you know how to test for those with the head off? and what do you mean by the pistons being broke?? broke how where? do you have a cylinder hone? or any tools to install the rings? how do all the other parts look? so what tests did you do before you tore it down... in case there is other problems?

 

[n8dsmdriven]

huh k i have a basic question.... the rings that u pulled out are in two pieces and you belive the bad motor mount caused this?

k well you should take some pictures of this stuff and the motor for our sake so we can see what your talking about,

just to let you know i HIGHLY dout a bad motor mount of anykind would cause internal motor damage, and you do know piston rings are not a solid one piece thing right , there a whole ring that is split "for installation" and those splits have to be opposite of eachother one the piston it self? did you check for that?

but first and for most........... always do a compression test, that 20 min will save you a lot of head ache and time...

let us know

 

[moi1463]

yea since it's all apart, make sure the cylinder walls arent all scored, get new bearings while youre at it. and make sure to get the head checked out before you put it all together. Do it right and do it once! GL

 

[jamison2216]

huh k i have a basic question.... the rings that u pulled out are in two pieces and you belive the bad motor mount caused this?

k well you should take some pictures of this stuff and the motor for our sake so we can see what your talking about,

just to let you know i HIGHLY dout a bad motor mount of anykind would cause internal motor damage, and you do know piston rings are not a solid one piece thing right , there a whole ring that is split "for installation" and those splits have to be opposite of eachother one the piston it self? did you check for that?

but first and for most........... always do a compression test, that 20 min will save you a lot of head ache and time...

let us know

i said the rings look fine, the PISTONS are broken, on piston 2 every section of the piston between the rings are broken, and on piston 1 the section between the first two rings is broken, if it was the rings then i wouldnt have drawn the conclusion that it was because like you said, the rings arent one solid piece, but the pistons are and it would take great force to break them

i have ruled out the head as the source of the problem, but like i said, im gonna be checking everything as i clean so if there ARE any other problems i can take care of them before they get worse

getting a hone is on my list of things to do today as well as order new pistons and pick up the head bolts and head gasket that i have ordered

 

[n8dsmdriven]

okay then.... btw order ## pistons before you bore or hone anything... each piston is slightly diff and will require it own specific bore. ps prob should order .20 over pistons if you need them, and if you doing al this anyway spend a few more bucks and get higher comp ratio piston .... more power

 

[firefighter]

At 136xxx plus miles your engine is tired. Being you already tore the engine down now is the time for a full rebuild.If you just do the lower end you could possible do damage to the head. Also the valves might not seal properly causing low compression. Also in order to get the cylinders round you can't hone the cylinders it needs to be bored. you'll be doing the same amount of work might as well do it right the first time. If you measure the cylinders you will find the cylinders become egg shaped this will cause blow by.Honing only will smooth the walls of the cylinders not get it round. If you are buying new pistons get a complete set give them to the machine shop first before you get the engine bored. When putting the engine back together again make you replace cylinder head bolts. the old bolts sometimes strech or twist the cost is minor you won't have to worry about possible leaking cylinder head gasket leaks. hope this helps

 

[jamison2216]

already have new head bolts, and i the cylinders arent egg shaped, they are strait, smooth and shiny, in some cases yea i would need to bet it bored, but not this instance, just needs to be honed

 

[n8dsmdriven]

already have new head bolts, and i the cylinders arent egg shaped, they are strait, smooth and shiny, in some cases yea i would need to bet it bored, but not this instance, just needs to be honed

what the specs on the walls.....

please inform us?

or are you just giving it the eye ball spec....if ## missing piston chunks, u prob scratched the hell out of ## walls or the metal is floating around somewhere.....

 

[jamison2216]

what the specs on the walls.....

please inform us?

or are you just giving it the eye ball spec....if ## missing piston chunks, u prob scratched the hell out of ## walls or the metal is floating around somewhere.....

the chunks came off the pistons as i took the rings off, they didnt fall off while in the block, and the walls are as shiny as a mirror, no scratches

 

[n8dsmdriven]

i said the rings look fine, the PISTONS are broken, on piston 2 every section of the piston between the rings are broken, and on piston 1 the section between the first two rings is broken, if it was the rings then i wouldnt have drawn the conclusion that it was because like you said, the rings arent one solid piece, but the pistons are and it would take great force to break them

i have ruled out the head as the source of the problem, but like i said, im gonna be checking everything as i clean so if there ARE any other problems i can take care of them before they get worse

getting a hone is on my list of things to do today as well as order new pistons and pick up the head bolts and head gasket that i have ordered

k thats not what u said..... how can anyone help you if u keep changing and adding to this story..... actually this better suits it haha

anyway kid good luck i tried to help..... but it seams u know more then our advice so better luck next time......

 

[Locke]

Check the cylinders with a bore gauge in multiple orientations at multiple depths to determine out-of-round (O.R.) and taper. (if you haven't already) If these vary by more than a handful of mils, you'll need to have them bored.

 

[jamison2216]

k thats not what u said..... how can anyone help you if u keep changing and adding to this story..... actually this better suits it haha

anyway kid good luck i tried to help..... but it seams u know more then our advice so better luck next time......

your inablility to read doesnt equal me changing the story

 

[firefighter]

It sounds like you had detonation in the piston with the bad ring lands I would pull the valves apart you might find you will have pitted valves and seats. remember piston just don't break. Like the other post said you have to use a bore gauge to check for out of round. You can also take a piston ring and insert it into the cylinder and measure end gap with feeler gauge not as accurate. Make sure the ring is level, you can push it in with the top of the piston. find out what the dimension is as you go toward the bottom of the cylinder the end gap of the ring will become larger.Just a few thousands will mean it needs to be bored. You can't eye ball it. also check the bearings on the rods.If you had detonation you could have damage the rod bearings.You should use plastigage and mike it. that's how you figure out the gap in the bearings. If your this far into the engine you might as well check the mains.The thing is if you don't have the mikes or your not familiar doing this just take the block to a shop and have it cleaned and miked also have the crank miked and checked for cracks. remember you can't see the cracks in the crank they are internal. for a few extra dollars you will know the foundation of your engine will be set.

 

[shane90gsx]

a 95 RS with a bad motor...you should just shoot the car! . JK. Not to hate on the RS. since your having to do a full rebuild at this point, have you thought about swapping in a full long block 4g63 and trans? im sure a bit more money but you can find a full swap easy. It would run a lot nicer and way more tuning available if you want to fix it up in the future. i have a few turbo ECU'S and a lot of things that can help actually. thats my .02cents

 

[Locke]

Shane: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-420a-frequently-answered-questions/305518-engine-swaps.html

About as easy as fitting a EJ25 into a 1g.