SMIC setup

[DSMeclipse4G63]

I just bought an evo 3 turbo setup(not an ebay knock off) with all the exhaust needed to more then support this setup (evo3 ported manifold, 3in o2 eliminator turbo back with 3in highflow cat). Now Im working on the intake side of things. As it stands Im using 2.25 IC piping, 1g TB ported stock Intake manifold, high flow intake and pipe. This is basically the setup I want for the car turbo wise so Im looking for a good SMIC upgrade to support or max my evo 3 turbo and was wondering if anyone out there is running a smic evo 3 setup and how they like it.

I had a sweet B16g setup on my first dsm years ago, and I figured if I was satisfied with a ported b16g that a ported evo3 would more then satisfy me. I do plan on fabbing a little for airflow, and possible adding a sprayer and/or fan if need be. But I want the stock/sleeper look for my build. I do plan on autocrossing and drag racing casually, but mainly this car will be for cruising.

Disclaimer: I do not plan on using a FMIC ever, nor do I plan on upgrading and yes I have the fuel support.

Car: 1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
Mods:
evo 3 16g ported intake and exhaust 34 internal waste gate flapper
3in o2 eliminator turbo back with high flow 3in cat
evo 3 manifold ported
full hard IC pipes
greddy type s CBV
walboro 190LPH
full intake (filter and hard pipe)

 

[toofast82]

The supra sidemount seems to be good past 350whp. I've personally used a hahn sidemount and it worked very well for its size, plus its a direct bolt-on. Should be every bit as capable as supra, if not more

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

Although Ive never been against modding a part, Id rather take the direct bolt on. The only one Ive seen for sale so far is dejon tool's SMIC. Ill look into hahn, but the issue is I havent seen it for sale for years.

 

[kottyking]

Get a supra sidemount then.

 

[LandoAWD]

The modification for the Supra SMIC isn't that extensive., really. If you get one where the tanks aren't flipped, then you have a bit of work, but buying a proven used unit is quick and easy.

 

[toofast82]

Ill look into hahn, but the issue is I havent seen it for sale for years.

Yeah they are kind of hard to get ahold of. The one I had, i got off of ebay pretty cheap. The supras seem to be readily available for under $100

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

Will the supra SMIC max or come close to maxing a Evo3 16g? How does the dejon SMIC stack up?

 

[dsm-onster]

Not really close to maxing it out. The evo3 16g has FREQUENTLY put down 400whp. I would never go at that goal with just a supra sidemount.

I would run a supra side mount and water/meth injection. You can tuck the water lines so that no one will see. Seams like you're after a sleeper look.

 

[romeen]

I'm running and EVO3 with the Hahn SMIC. It's a very nice, high quality IC that does the job for the first couple pulls before it heat soaks.

If you are going to stick with a SMIC then I highly recommend water/meth injection like Matt stated. Here are a few threads with good info. First two started by guys running an EVO3 with SMIC. Third one by a guy with I believe a s16G and SMIC.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/nit...01567-e316g-sidemount-w-methanol-results.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/242327-water-meth-injection-results.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...-water-injection-best-mod-ive-done-years.html

Without injection it will probably be very difficult to maximize the EVO3's performance with just a side mount.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

Not really close to maxing it out. The evo3 16g has FREQUENTLY put down 400whp. I would never go at that goal with just a supra sidemount.

I would run a supra side mount and water/meth injection. You can tuck the water lines so that no one will see. Seams like you're after a sleeper look.

Exactly. I may just go for the dejon since it is rated for around 400hp. I dont plan on maxing the evo3, but Id like the option. This way its a direct bolt on, I get my sleeper look , and no chance of a power buldge.

Thanks for all the help, its been a while since I was hot and heavy with DSMs as you can all tell, so the insights were quite appreciated. Heres to my talon decimating the big 16g setup I had on my old gst.

 

[blazebolt]

I had the same goals as you and I went with the Dejon and I'm happy. I can get a couple pulls before it heatsoaks. The Dejon sits really close to the wheel well splash guard and would get better flow if you cut a hole in it to allow air to pass through.

 

[spectr019]

Exactly. I may just go for the dejon since it is rated for around 400hp. I dont plan on maxing the evo3, but Id like the option.

IThis is basically the setup I want for the car turbo wise so Im looking for a good SMIC upgrade to support or max my evo 3 turbo and was wondering if anyone out there is running a smic evo 3 setup and how they like it.

First, I would respectively suggest for you to know what you yourself want...You first say (the bottom quote is your original post) that you want to max your turbo, then later you say you don't plan on maxing it (but you'd like the option). There's ALWAYS the option to max it, however that turbo I don't think you can max with a side mount (please anybody chime in and let me know if I'm incorrect). The Hahn or Supra SMIC would be nice, I ran a supra for awhile and was pleased with it (after a rough time mounting it and fabbing some pipes). You say you will do SOME auto-cross and SOME drag racing...those are two very different runs, usually requiring different types of turbos, suspesion, blah blah (blah blah because you are SPECIFICALLY talking about your turbo). If you're using this for mostly just cruising (mind you, you DID say cruising, not street racing, I personally translate that as driving around on nice summer days and nights on the local downtown strip) then go look on slowboyracing. They used to have nice (even custom) side mounts that would work well. But again, for us to help you out with choosing even a sidemount, decide what you want first. If you want to do autocrossing, you'll get very little pressure drop with a side mount, but if you want to do drag, look into even just a very small front mount and tuck it as much as you can behind the top part of the bumper. And hey if you're just looking for something to go 'cruising' in, then save your money and keep your stock sidemount .
To in my opinion answer your question directly, I don't believe you behind the wheel would notice the street markers fly by you any faster with the Dejon, Hahn or the Supra. A side mount intercooler is exactly that, and it can only fit in exactly a large enough space. Even if you buy one that claims to be the 'largest' side mount out there, think of how much larger it's really gonna be. If you want to even have the option to MAX your turbo, you're going to have to eventually go with a non-sleeper look (and I'm telling you this out of personal experience. My first goal was to go sleeper....Not anymore). Two side mounts of roughly the same volume capacity will give you about the same result.

Just my .02, although that was about as long as $5.20

Ben

 

[blazebolt]

spectr019 you list very valid points and I agree with everything you said. However I think you might be missing something. It doesn't look like he is building a great car for one application, but a versatile car that is just "good" (not great) at everything. At least that is the impression I am getting from his posts. And for that a 16G and SMIC is the route to go. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that at 16G is a capable turbo for decent drag and autox times as well as a quick daily driver. The SMIC does hinder the performance capabilities compared to a FMIC, but for some (like myself) it is a sacrifice we have to make for stealth or cost. Here is my comments on the 3 SMIC's, performance wise you won't see much of a difference except for drag racing.

Dejon: Direct Bolt on no modification cost is a bit high
Supra: Modification necessary, may have a buldge in the front bumper, can be found used cheap
Hanh: Direct bolt on, Hard to find

 

[spectr019]

I didn't even consider the aspect o maybe the NECESSITY (depending on where you are) to make your car not look like a drag king, either in the eyes of cops, thieves, whatever. Very good point, thank you
I didn't mention this in my previous post, but my side mount got taken off by a curb :/ If you go with that, make sure you mount it as high as you can!!!

Ben

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

First, I would respectively suggest for you to know what you yourself want...You first say (the bottom quote is your original post) that you want to max your turbo, then later you say you don't plan on maxing it (but you'd like the option). There's ALWAYS the option to max it, however that turbo I don't think you can max with a side mount (please anybody chime in and let me know if I'm incorrect). The Hahn or Supra SMIC would be nice, I ran a supra for awhile and was pleased with it (after a rough time mounting it and fabbing some pipes). You say you will do SOME auto-cross and SOME drag racing...those are two very different runs, usually requiring different types of turbos, suspesion, blah blah (blah blah because you are SPECIFICALLY talking about your turbo). If you're using this for mostly just cruising (mind you, you DID say cruising, not street racing, I personally translate that as driving around on nice summer days and nights on the local downtown strip) then go look on slowboyracing. They used to have nice (even custom) side mounts that would work well. But again, for us to help you out with choosing even a sidemount, decide what you want first. If you want to do autocrossing, you'll get very little pressure drop with a side mount, but if you want to do drag, look into even just a very small front mount and tuck it as much as you can behind the top part of the bumper. And hey if you're just looking for something to go 'cruising' in, then save your money and keep your stock sidemount .
To in my opinion answer your question directly, I don't believe you behind the wheel would notice the street markers fly by you any faster with the Dejon, Hahn or the Supra. A side mount intercooler is exactly that, and it can only fit in exactly a large enough space. Even if you buy one that claims to be the 'largest' side mount out there, think of how much larger it's really gonna be. If you want to even have the option to MAX your turbo, you're going to have to eventually go with a non-sleeper look (and I'm telling you this out of personal experience. My first goal was to go sleeper....Not anymore). Two side mounts of roughly the same volume capacity will give you about the same result.

Just my .02, although that was about as long as $5.20

Ben

I said I wanted to be able to max, but not actually max it. As for the purpose of this car, I plan to occasionally go to the local drag strip for a run or two and possibly do some light autocross for fun. As for the cruising you are correct in that its NOT street racing, rather a nice drive with my wife and dog down a nice road. I know exactly what I am looking for in this car, thanks to two previous DSMs with different setups.

My first DSM was a red 1995 eclipse GST that had all the goodies on a ported and clipped b16g. Then I did the automatic thing with a 1995 green GSX with a t28 and supporting mods. When I had the GST My plan was always to build a 2.4 stroker and go with a 50 or 60 trim or a red or green and get the biggest power I could. But then I realized that a tuned properly setup 16g car was more then enough power, and that I could get more thrills out of the best 16g available with the suspension done up nice. So basically Ive done quite a few years of trial and error to finally reach my perfect plan. You have a lot of good points that I'm sure a lot of people have fallen victim to with DSMs especially.

spectr019 you list very valid points and I agree with everything you said. However I think you might be missing something. It doesn't look like he is building a great car for one application, but a versatile car that is just "good" (not great) at everything. At least that is the impression I am getting from his posts. And for that a 16G and SMIC is the route to go. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that at 16G is a capable turbo for decent drag and autox times as well as a quick daily driver. The SMIC does hinder the performance capabilities compared to a FMIC, but for some (like myself) it is a sacrifice we have to make for stealth or cost. Here is my comments on the 3 SMIC's, performance wise you won't see much of a difference except for drag racing.

Dejon: Direct Bolt on no modification cost is a bit high
Supra: Modification necessary, may have a buldge in the front bumper, can be found used cheap
Hanh: Direct bolt on, Hard to find

Exactly what I'm going for. Im not looking for a drag king or an autocross monster, Im looking for a stock looking DSM that can do both well and still cruise around nicely. As for being a daily driver, I did that with this car for over a year. But for now it will just be my fun car unless my wife wants to drive my jeep for a bit. One thing is for sure, it will never be a trailer queen. Im building it to be driven not just looked at.


Edit: Forgot to mention Im 100% set on the Dejon SMIC. Should be more then enough to support 18-22psi on the street for my needs.

 

[wishihadatalon]

First, I would respectively suggest for you to know what you yourself want...You first say (the bottom quote is your original post) that you want to max your turbo, then later you say you don't plan on maxing it (but you'd like the option). There's ALWAYS the option to max it, however that turbo I don't think you can max with a side mount (please anybody chime in and let me know if I'm incorrect). The Hahn or Supra SMIC would be nice, I ran a supra for awhile and was pleased with it (after a rough time mounting it and fabbing some pipes). You say you will do SOME auto-cross and SOME drag racing...those are two very different runs, usually requiring different types of turbos, suspesion, blah blah (blah blah because you are SPECIFICALLY talking about your turbo). If you're using this for mostly just cruising (mind you, you DID say cruising, not street racing, I personally translate that as driving around on nice summer days and nights on the local downtown strip) then go look on slowboyracing. They used to have nice (even custom) side mounts that would work well. But again, for us to help you out with choosing even a sidemount, decide what you want first. If you want to do autocrossing, you'll get very little pressure drop with a side mount, but if you want to do drag, look into even just a very small front mount and tuck it as much as you can behind the top part of the bumper. And hey if you're just looking for something to go 'cruising' in, then save your money and keep your stock sidemount .
To in my opinion answer your question directly, I don't believe you behind the wheel would notice the street markers fly by you any faster with the Dejon, Hahn or the Supra. A side mount intercooler is exactly that, and it can only fit in exactly a large enough space. Even if you buy one that claims to be the 'largest' side mount out there, think of how much larger it's really gonna be. If you want to even have the option to MAX your turbo, you're going to have to eventually go with a non-sleeper look (and I'm telling you this out of personal experience. My first goal was to go sleeper....Not anymore). Two side mounts of roughly the same volume capacity will give you about the same result.

Just my .02, although that was about as long as $5.20

Ben

You don't even need an intercooler to max out the 16g, as Lucas English has shown.

 

[dsm-onster]

You don't even need a turbo upgrade to make 400whp but that's not the point. He wants to push a 16g with gasoline.

Lucas English. Are you talking about that? Does the evo IX platform count? The stock intercooler is a front mount. Which is what many are suggesting. Besides he's runnign an ETS upgrade not a stock evo intercooler. Also a twinscroll 16g can get away with alot more than an open scroll design because of the heat that is transfered during overlap.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

He wants to push a 16g with gasoline.

You are correct sir, I plan on 93 octane 18-22psi range when the fuel/tuning mods funding gets approved. For now whatever the wastegate is set at (Im thinking its in the 10-14psi range).

 

[LandoAWD]

Lucas English. Are you talking about that?

He has a 1g beater.

 

[dsm-onster]

Links???? Is this in the hangout forum or somewhere?

Man all these guys making redonculous power with minimal modifications. Is it the tuner that's capable or the car . CB's 16g car was basically a fp3065 setup and choice in parts with a 16g strapped to it. Could the "secret" be that there is no secret? That's the real Kung Fu.

. . . No disrespect to these guys, btw.

 

[wishihadatalon]

Links???? Is this in the hangout forum or somewhere?

Man all these guys making redonculous power with minimal modifications. Is it the tuner that's capable or the car . CB's 16g car was basically a fp3065 setup and choice in parts with a 16g strapped to it. Could the "secret" be that there is no secret? That's the real Kung Fu.

. . . No disrespect to these guys, btw.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dra...o-iii-16g-stock-automatic-no-intercooler.html

11.00 at 124 out of an auto on a small turbo is really impressive. While I realize this is much different than what the op wants (e98 vs gasoline) my response wasn't directed towards him.

FWIW my fiances 2g runs a 16g (23psi), stock sidemount, stock upper intercooler pipe, hard lower pipe, and e85. It runs on e85 to hopefully keep away knock but as of right now at the strip, my intake air temps will climb from 10 degrees above ambient to north of 200 degrees. Most of the temp increase I think is because of a few boost leaks, but I am trying to fix that to see how much of a problem they are causing. After that I am going to determine what I have to do to decrease the temps. I will likely be running meth injection or swapping to a large garrett core that will fit in a 2ga talon front grill while keeping the fog lights.

Also I agree with you on the big setups with small turbos. It seems like they ditch the standard "street combo" theory, throw in high flowing parts and the 16g works. Of course to assume it is that easy is just a slap in their face, but whatever they are doing, they are doing it well.

 

[jrohner]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dra...o-iii-16g-stock-automatic-no-intercooler.html

11.00 at 124 out of an auto on a small turbo is really impressive. While I realize this is much different than what the op wants (e98 vs gasoline) my response wasn't directed towards him.

FWIW my fiances 2g runs a 16g (23psi), stock sidemount, stock upper intercooler pipe, hard lower pipe, and e85. It runs on e85 to hopefully keep away knock but as of right now at the strip, my intake air temps will climb from 10 degrees above ambient to north of 200 degrees. Most of the temp increase I think is because of a few boost leaks, but I am trying to fix that to see how much of a problem they are causing. After that I am going to determine what I have to do to decrease the temps. I will likely be running meth injection or swapping to a large garrett core that will fit in a 2ga talon front grill while keeping the fog lights.

Also I agree with you on the big setups with small turbos. It seems like they ditch the standard "street combo" theory, throw in high flowing parts and the 16g works. Of course to assume it is that easy is just a slap in their face, but whatever they are doing, they are doing it well.

I ran without an intercooler one (hot) summer with no issues on E85. That's when I was on an SAFC tune though so I was still on the stock conservative 2g timing map. E85 is better without an intercooler than pump gas with one.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

I plan on a totally built and tuned motor so this makes me feel even better about my turbo choice. If they can pull 11sec on a evo3 like that makes me think with a built engine, ported and polished head with cams and all the support and tuning that I should be doing just fine. Id love to see this car run a sub 12sec quarter just once

edit: I just looked at this no intercooler car and wow that is one neat dsm. Makes me drool over my setup even more.

 

[dsm-onster]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dra...o-iii-16g-stock-automatic-no-intercooler.html

11.00 at 124 out of an auto on a small turbo is really impressive. While I realize this is much different than what the op wants (e98 vs gasoline) my response wasn't directed towards him.

FWIW my fiances 2g runs a 16g (23psi), stock sidemount, stock upper intercooler pipe, hard lower pipe, and e85. It runs on e85 to hopefully keep away knock but as of right now at the strip, my intake air temps will climb from 10 degrees above ambient to north of 200 degrees. Most of the temp increase I think is because of a few boost leaks, but I am trying to fix that to see how much of a problem they are causing. After that I am going to determine what I have to do to decrease the temps. I will likely be running meth injection or swapping to a large garrett core that will fit in a 2ga talon front grill while keeping the fog lights.

Also I agree with you on the big setups with small turbos. It seems like they ditch the standard "street combo" theory, throw in high flowing parts and the 16g works. Of course to assume it is that easy is just a slap in their face, but whatever they are doing, they are doing it well.

All of this is on alcohol. I could have suggested water/meth injection and sticking with the side mount too. Or race gas. As It was I suggested water/meth and a supra sidemount. . . This has to be a pump gasoline car per the OP's requirements. 2 m10s, a check valve, shurflowpump and some hose and one part of slx denatured alcohol (50%methanol/50%ethanol) with one part of 20 below washer fluid (40% methanol/60%water) can do the same thing as ethanol. You can then run 93 octane with as much boost and/or flow until the turbo blows in one run with any intercooler that you wish.

And what I'm saying about Kung Fu is that there are no secrets. It IS that easy to build, not that easy to think that a 16g can do it if you give it a chance. Most don't want a turbo to float so far off the map. Properly sizing a turbo is important to those that will see life after the track run.

If you want to stick with a sidemount, I have suggested the obvious: water/meth injection. The larger sidemount would only be there to better cool light throttle acceleration, good for consistant intake manifold temps. And would also increase the overall VE, so a little less boost to net the same results.