shift box or stall converter?

[black97spyder]

I'm getting ready to drop my fully built bc 288 engine into my stock automatic 97 AWD Talon.

Before the engine goes in, right now would be the best time to put a stall in it so I can get a good jump off the line. And I didn't want to have to remove the engine just to put a stall in it in the future... This car will see 1/2 track time and 1/2 street time

I was thinking somewhere around 2,500-2,600 re-stall done by IPT that way I can still retain my O.D. on the highway at about 2,800-2,900 rpm at 70 mph

What are your guys thoughts???

This car is BONE stock, even had the factory air box when I bought it so there Is a ton of upgrades I'll have to do to get to my goal of high 9's with my Talon. I know a shift box would help a lot from a roll but I can do that upgrade later without having to pull the engine

 

[Bud92gsx]

Didn't you ask this quation just yesterday that I answered for you.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Didn't you ask this quation just yesterday that I answered for you.

You mean this particular thread. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/automatic-tranny/460409-what-rpm-you-auto-guys-running-o-d.html

Why yes good sir, that would be the thread in question.

 

[black97spyder]

Yes u did. I was needing more advice as I don't really know much about auto's, I am wanting to start from a dig as this will be car will be mostly track. I know a shift box would help tons from a roll but im looking to get a jump off the line. Not wait to hit my power band with my huge cams

 

[Bud92gsx]

And you did not take what I said yesterday to heart.Because what I said yesterday is actually still valid today.

Your restall is gonna help you stall up to x rpms, in order to get your turbo to spool on the line to launch at x psi etc.

Now the shift box, is not the same as a stalled converter.The shift box cuts down on your trans lag.20 milliseconds of lag between shifts, is alot better than lets say a half a second or more.

Which in theory,faster hard shifting trans is gonna cut down on your et's..You feel me here,I want this to stick this time.I'm sure im forgetting something so please ask if I missed something.

 

[black97spyder]

And you did not take what I said yesterday to heart.Because what I said yesterday is actually still valid today.

Your restall is gonna help you stall up to x rpms, in order to get your turbo to spool on the line to launch at x psi etc.

Now the shift box, is not the same as a stalled converter.The shift box cuts down on your trans lag.20 milliseconds of lag between shifts, is alot better than lets say a half a second or more.

Which in theory,faster hard shifting trans is gonna cut down on your et's..You feel me here,I want this to stick this time.I'm sure im forgetting something so please ask if I missed something.

When you say it that Way it makes more sense to me! A shift box was already a definite for the future.

But my concern now is what about the 1-2 seconds It takes me to even get to the start of my powerband at say 3500 rpm in first, this is why I was thinking a stall would help me start out at say 2800 instead of around 1200 rpm on the stock stall.... It is this long lag time that i would like to make better while the engine is out of the car.

 

[Bud92gsx]

You dont need a stalled converter to stall a 14, or even a 16g really..Look at Force, he's got a coumpound setup on the stock 2g converter, and setting records.

Your ebrake and regular brakes will help you get the stall you want.Upgraded pads will help hold the car back, and should be enough for you to stall up to around 3k.

On the line the time it takes you to stall does not matter.It's about et, this isnt street crap, this is track time.Not the same.

 

[black97spyder]

You dont need a stalled converter to stall a 14, or even a 16g really..Look at Force, he's got a coumpound setup on the stock 2g converter, and setting records.

Your ebrake and regular brakes will help you get the stall you want.Upgraded pads will help hold the car back, and should be enough for you to stall up to around 3k.

On the line the time it takes you to stall does not matter.It's about et, this isnt street crap, this is track time.Not the same.

I've always had Problems brake boosting with my 16g, I've never been able to get more than 1-2 psi after 5 or 6 seconds of brake boosting and i start to feel like I'm going to harm stuff.

I'm wanting a lot bigger turbo than my current e316g for In the future, I'm wanting a PTE 6765 so wouldn't brake boosting be very hard to do on the stock converter?

I want to only do things once and do it right which is why I am thinking about the stall to help with the monster turbo in the future and still being able to launch like a rocket

 

[camfast]

Stall converter and shift box are 2 different things. An upgraded converter will let you get more rpm off the line depending on your turbo, cam selection etc.. Given that you have a big cam, you going to need a converter thats loose but will sacrifice top end. The shift box will give you full line pressure for faster shift and helps keep your clutches from burning.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Edit I just read your profile. A 288 cam, You may want to look into dynateck ignition actually!

 

[black97spyder]

Stall converter and shift box are 2 different things. An upgraded converter will let you get more rpm off the line depending on your turbo, cam selection etc.. Given that you have a big cam, you going to need a converter thats loose but will sacrifice top end. The shift box will give you full line pressure for faster shift and helps keep your clutches from burning.

Thank you camfast! I was thinking the same thing but being the engine is out i want to do the converter now so i don't have to pull the engine back out in the future. Im for sure going to get a shift box, but while the engine is out and i have the $$ I wanted to stall it some.

About how much top end would I sacrifice?? And how big of converter would you recommend for track & street duty? About how many rpms will i be able to brake boost above my stall??

If i had a 2,000 - 2,400 stall and could brake boost until 3,500 that would be great!!

Bud, this is bone stock on EVERYTHING. Bought the car that Way with a blown engine and dropping my built 7 bolt in so it needs A LOT of supporting mods but while the engine is out It's the easiest time to plan ahead for the future on the drivetrain. And it would not surprise me if I'm doing it wrong but then again I know my timing is being pulled because everything is stock

 

[DWR-DSM]

A shift box helps a lot. Doesn't matter what turbo you use since you have control of your shift points. A stalled converter wouldn't hurt. I use both and seen a difference using one over the other as well as together. Car runs better using a stalled converter with my shift box

Thank you camfast! I was thinking the same thing but being the engine is out i want to do the converter now so i don't have to pull the engine back out in the future. Im for sure going to get a shift box, but while the engine is out and i have the $$ I wanted to stall it some.

About how much top end would I sacrifice?? And how big of converter would you recommend for track & street duty? About how many rpms will i be able to brake boost above my stall??

If i had a 2,000 - 2,400 stall and could brake boost until 3,500 that would be great!!

Bud, this is bone stock on EVERYTHING. Bought the car that Way with a blown engine and dropping my built 7 bolt in so it needs A LOT of supporting mods but while the engine is out It's the easiest time to plan ahead for the future on the drivetrain. And it would not surprise me if I'm doing it wrong but then again I know my timing is being pulled because everything is stock

The top end you would sacrifice would be different on every build and the TC you choose. I have a lvl 1 8" weighted TC on my 1g and I see over 4500k brake booster on my BWs372 with race-cover.

I run the roadsurge shiftbox with no issues. Hugeeeee difference for me and a must for my setup

RoadSurge Shift box - Manual Shifter

 

[black97spyder]

A shift box helps a lot. Doesn't matter what turbo you use since you have control of your shift points. A stalled converter wouldn't hurt. I use both and seen a difference using one over the other as well as together. Car runs better using a stalled converter with my shift box

That is Exactly my plan!!

Where does ## stall come in if your able to brake boost to about 4500? And i plan on getting my stock TC re-stalled by IPT

 

[Bud92gsx]

A shift box helps a lot. Doesn't matter what turbo you use since you have control of your shift points. A stalled converter wouldn't hurt. I use both and seen a difference using one over the other as well as together. Car runs better using a stalled converter with my shift box

I thought I said all this.My bad

Your converter stalls, allowing for boost on launch.
The shift box allows for setting shift points to best fit your powerband to shift at x rpm.

Also,Launch control!!!!< Yes that needed 4 ex points.

 

[Bud92gsx]

That is Exactly my plan!!

Where does ## stall come in if your able to brake boost to about 4500? And i plan on getting my stock TC re-stalled by IPT

Lets see converters.Ipt,Sinister speed, Theres gotta be more.

Force's auto. http://www.forceengineered.com/searchresults.asp?cat=1825

 

[DWR-DSM]

I thought I said all this.My bad

Your converter stalls, allowing for boost on launch.
The shift box allows for setting shift points to best fit your powerband to shift at x rpm.

Also,Launch control!!!!< Yes that needed 4 ex points.

You did I just didnt see it

 

[black97spyder]

Edit I just read your profile. A 288 cam, You may want to look into dynateck ignition actually!

I have a COP setup for the future already! jus need the wiring instructions and Im good to go with the COP setup!!

 

[DWR-DSM]

Lets see converters.Ipt,Sinister speed, Theres gotta be more.

There are more bc I seen more. I have used both IPT as well as sinister speed currently

 

[black97spyder]

Lets see converters.Ipt,Sinister speed, Theres gotta be more.

Force's auto. http://www.forceengineered.com/

How does the sinister speed ones hold up? Haven't heard much about them

 

[DWR-DSM]

I have a COP setup for the future already! jus need the wiring instructions and Im good to go with the COP setup!!

He isnt talking about a COP.

Here you go - EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

 

[black97spyder]

There are more bc I seen more. I have used both IPT as well as sinister speed currently

What was your experience with both of those TC's?? I only have enough $$ right now to get my stock one restalled but I might go bigger in the future Is why I want to know

 

[DWR-DSM]

How does the sinister speed ones hold up? Haven't heard much about them

I kept the same setup and changed TC from IPT to sinister Speed. IPT I was limited to 2,000 no matter how long I held my brake and e brake. Meaning I was never in boost coming off the line. Sinister Speed I would get about 4,000 with the foot brake and ebrake 4,500. It took a little longer for it to go up in the 500 rpm difference.

Sinister Speed wasnt as friendly as the IPT on the street. I expected that from the stall. Both the converters with the shift box ran excellent.

 

[black97spyder]

He isnt talking about a COP.

Here you go - EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

Hmm I've not looked into these a whole lot, do they just amplify the stock ignition?

Or do you use the dynatech with the COP to power them?? That's the assumption I had

 

[Bud92gsx]

Lets go down the list here.


Auto cars Clicky..DSM 1/4 Mile Times - Automatic

 

[Bud92gsx]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-electrical-wiring/290665-coil-plug-wiring-install-pics.html

Ohh that's homeade tho,But still.