SAFC with big injectors, Anyone doing this anymore?

[1993eclipseGS]

Well, Before I even start I know I will be told you buy dsmlink. That is not a route I want to go $600 for dsm link, And how ever many hundered dollars for a laptop, Etc..

I am getting a very great deal (So I would think) on an SAFC, For $50.00 today. I got the one in my last car for $30, But I see these going for over $100.00 on ebay anyways.

I was just wondering how many people actually still use an safc, With bigger injectors? Injectors in the 700's? If so, Have you had luck with them? Do you have a chipped ecu? I am assuming I will need an AFPR and a chip for injector compensation? I planned on taking the car to a dyno and having them dyno tune it with the safc, When I finish it up, Which will be in awhile.

If you have any advice on using the safc with bigger injectors, Please let me know. The SAFC is the blue screen version, But not the newest one.

On a side note, My friend in his rsx-s with cybernation kit and built motor put down 399.6whp with an safc, So I would think I could have good luck with this also, Being I hope to get around the much hp out of the car, When it is finished.

 

[JDNSBR]

Is it possible? Yes. It is going to take alot of time and patience. 750's are the absolutle max for an SAFC. This is because they have no control of timing. Running bigger injectors, more than likley you will be pulling too much time for it to any good. However, it is possible like I said to do this with a correct tune. So if you have the patience I say go for it. If not get a chip or buy DSM link. Those are your honest options.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

When you say buy a ''chip'', Do you mean like this:

http://www.dsmchips.com/stage3.htm

If I get my ecu chipped, With a chip like that.. Then will it be easier to tune with the safc, Being it would have that fuel compensation for larger type injectors?

I am assuming I can't just throw in big injectors, Get the ecu chipped and then drive the car, Correct? I would still think that you need to tune it via the safc.

I am kind of new to tuning, I tuned a previous 1g of mine with 680's and a maft / logger (That's it) And I had a very hard time with timing advance and knock. I suppose this is where the afpr , And chip would come into play. I've been doing ALOT of reading, But understand alot better when all the answers are directly related to what i'm asking.

Thanks alot for the fast reply.

 

[JDNSBR]

It is possible to do it without a chip, just take patience like I said.

Our good wiseman Andy has a chip that has his fuel trims in it for his set up if I remember correctly. He would be the best man for those type of questions. Let me PM him and see if he can give you a hand.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

Thanks for the help so far, I definatly know i'm getting the safc today, And I have access to a set of 750's.

 

[andymoraitis]

Thanks for the PM Jon -

In truth, an AFC is NOT needed if you have custom fuel trims and timing maps pre-burned into the chip. Buying an AFC for adjustment is only needed if you use the chip for injector compensation and are not mapped for specific A/F and timing.

Save your money, send me a PM and I'll create your settings for you and even post them here.

Drop me a line if you're interested,

Andy

 

[1993eclipseGS]

My car is a 95' Eclipse GST, I just took the ecu out of the car to check if it is an eprom, But i'm not sure... I don't think it is. I thought all 95's came with an eprom. If it's not, Where can I get a 95' eprom ecu, can i buy them brand new?

 

[spyderturbo007]

You can go here to see the difference between the EPROM and the non-EPROM.

http://www.dsmlink.com/faq-eprom.html

Also, not all '95's had EPROM's

Purchasing the ECU from the dealer will cost you a dumptruck load of cash, if you can even still get them from the dealer. Your best bet is to check Ebay or the classified.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

Well, The number on the outside of the ECU case it one of which says on the site it would be an eprom... The thing is, I don't see a long big chip like the one pictured for the 1G eprom.. I posted pics of my ecu..

 

[Sharkcus]

The board you took the pictures of is non-eprom. Someone probably swapped it at some point, if the ecu case has the model # for an eprom'd ecu.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

Darn, Just my luck. I found a website that sells remanufactured Eprom ecu's for the 2g for only $250 so I'm back on track again!

 

[fwdeclipse]

Im just gonna vouch for the custom chip.Andy hooked me up with some custom settings and its great.I would for sure think about that.I was set on a afc as well and andy talked some sense into me.You dont have the hassle of tuning and having trouble with the timing maps.Just my .02

 

[1993eclipseGS]

Yes, I'm going to buy my injectors now, If I get them tonite, I'll buy the eprom tomorrow nite and send Andy another PM so he can set me up.

 

[andymoraitis]

Take your time. I'll be around when you're ready.

Andy

 

[rated x]

What website did you find the ecu's at?

 

[1993eclipseGS]

I got mine local now, But I found them at www.ffwdconnection.com They sell both the 1g and 2g eprom ecu's.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Too much injector compensation = Too much timing advance. Your ECU detects wayyy less air and advances the timing and before you know it you melt something . I think the safest injector size with not too much timing advance would be 660's after that, your pushing your luck really.

 

[WikedSicc]

On a side note, one way to actually use the AFC to your advantage is by using too large of injectors. You take the too large injectors for your setup and lean the car out with the AFC. Yes, this creates more timing. But that is the overall goal. You can use oversized injectors to get more timing on your car. It is sorta making a plus out of the main negative of an AFC. All this completely disregarding idle control of course. I understand if you are going for "max boost" this is a bad way to tune. But say you are tuning a car and sticking w/ nearly stock boost. You can gain considerable amounts of horsepower doing this while keeping the boost relitively stock. It has been proven to actually create higher hp than upping the boost and less timing on smaller applications where a AFC would be utilized. Just some food for thought.

 

[GSntncT]

I was just wondering how many people actually still use an safc, With bigger injectors? Injectors in the 700's? If so, Have you had luck with them? Do you have a chipped ecu? I am assuming I will need an AFPR and a chip for injector compensation? I planned on taking the car to a dyno and having them dyno tune it with the safc, When I finish it up, Which will be in awhile.

If you have any advice on using the safc with bigger injectors, Please let me know. The SAFC is the blue screen version, But not the newest one.

You can run with just the safc and 700+ injectors, but not in the most optimal way. I had just an safc with 780 cc injectors, and it was a pure hassle. Since I've added the MAFT, and it's helped out alot. next will be a chipped eprom ECU. I will be good with that. You mainly will only need a AFPR if you go with a 255 lp pump. a 190 will be fine if you want to avoid the AFPR.

Since you don't want to go dsm link, like I don't, that may be the best bet i think.

 

[dsm-onster]

You can run with just the safc and 700+ injectors, but not in the most optimal way. I had just an safc with 780 cc injectors, and it was a pure hassle. Since I've added the MAFT, and it's helped out alot. next will be a chipped eprom ECU. I will be good with that. You mainly will only need a AFPR if you go with a 255 lp pump. a 190 will be fine if you want to avoid the AFPR.

Since you don't want to go dsm link, like I don't, that may be the best bet i think.

I'm curios. In what way did the MAFt help you?

 

[GSntncT]

I'm curios. In what way did the MAFt help you?

It wasn't more helpful by leaps and bounds, but I noticed that my car ran much more smooth since I installed it, and set the dials where they needed to be, not to mention it made tuning for me easier. If I gave anyone the impression that I'm saying the maft is God's best thing for DSMs...........it is NOT the case.

 

[dsm-onster]

It wasn't more helpful by leaps and bounds, but I noticed that my car ran much more smooth since I installed it, and set the dials where they needed to be, not to mention it made tuning for me easier. If I gave anyone the impression that I'm saying the maft is God's best thing for DSMs...........it is NOT the case.

No, it's just that most have been really ragging the MAFt lately. "It's not accurate", "It doesn't idle correct", "it's not a Mitsu based product so it sucks my big toe"...

Mine does great and did great even before I got DSMLink. I used to regret buying it because I thougth DSMLink v3 was coming out last year . But I think I'm enjoying my money's worth with it AND my dsmlink. I love blowthrough. And once calibrated it is accurate as he!!. In fact, I didn't tweak it much at all to calibrate it. W/out DSMLink the inaccuracies can be tuned out rather easily. Your airflow will be off. But EVERY piggyback has that symptom.

 

[1SloColt]

No, it's just that most have been really ragging the MAFt lately. "It's not accurate", "It doesn't idle correct", "it's not a Mitsu based product so it sucks my big toe"...

Mine does great and did great even before I got DSMLink. I used to regret buying it because I thougth DSMLink v3 was coming out last year . But I think I'm enjoying my money's worth with it AND my dsmlink. I love blowthrough. And once calibrated it is accurate as he!!. In fact, I didn't tweak it much at all to calibrate it. W/out DSMLink the inaccuracies can be tuned out rather easily. Your airflow will be off. But EVERY piggyback has that symptom.

Its not quite as accurate as you might think, especially when you start making decent power. The MAFT has a common problem where it'll drop the signal, though I don't think it happens to everyone. I'm sure you can guess what that leads to. If you could only see the airflow log I saw over the weekend, boy would you cringe at that.

 

[dsm-onster]

Its not quite as accurate as you might think, especially when you start making decent power. The MAFT has a common problem where it'll drop the signal, though I don't think it happens to everyone. I'm sure you can guess what that leads to. If you could only see the airflow log I saw over the weekend, boy would you cringe at that.

Hey. That makes sense... At least I have DSMLink to recalibrate... Is the miscounting consistant? Can you get the log posted? I'd like to take a look at it... Was it something that could be tuned out if have a means to correct for the inaccurate signal?

A few of the dsmlink guys on the dsmlink forums are reporting how accurate the MAFt is once calibrated. If the signal is always consistant to an airflow number then at least it is precise and I can compensate for it...

 

[1SloColt]

I assume its a flaw in the electronics of the translator. The signal will drop totally for a very short duration, I think even less time than some sample rates of certain loggers, but I'll find out. What basically happens then is you have stupid A/F spikes. You might have the car tuned for 11.7 a/f across the board then you have these spikes up to 13.7 a/f from the MAFT signal f'in up. This causes major havoc in the combustion chamber as you can imagine. I'll see what I can do for you in terms of that log.