Running Rich

[gofer]

When i first got the car a yr ago, some one had an safc installed but they took it out and left the harness in. so i just disconected the harness and taped up the wires. but there are like jumper looking things with clear rubber over them. do they all have this ?

BINGO!!!!!
Thats EXACTLY why your cars running so damn rich, you can't just remove the SAFC and leave the harness still tapped into the ECU with an open SAFC connector. There are wires that wrap around inside that connector, without out the SAFC attached your car WILL run retarded rich. Your front o2 sensor looks like its trying to cycle in those logs so don't replace it just yet, take out that SAFC harness altogether.

I haven't bothered reading the above posts from all the wisemen/moderators, it looks like you've got a big help group.

Your rich condition will completely disappear after you UNWIRE that SAFC harness, just make sure the connections to the ECU are solid. Check your timing both with the car off and on, of course if you can get it started.

Just PM me if you've got any questions. If you want I can post a video of what a DSM will do just by disconnecting the SAFC and leaving the wire harness there?



EDIT: Alright I re-read your post about the SAFC wiring and you said you removed it and just taped off the wires. If it were me I'd disconnect the battery and pull the ECU, then go over every wire thats ever been cut/spliced/crimped from that SAFC that was there. There shouldn't be any wires going anywhere from that ECU wiring harness except to the back of those connectors that plug into the ECU. Then check your timing...

 

[whiteboyz]

BINGO!!!!!
Thats EXACTLY why your cars running so damn rich, you can't just remove the SAFC and leave the harness still tapped into the ECU with an open SAFC connector. There are wires that wrap around inside that connector, without out the SAFC attached your car WILL run retarded rich. Your front o2 sensor looks like its trying to cycle in those logs so don't replace it just yet, take out that SAFC harness altogether.

I haven't bothered reading the above posts from all the wisemen/moderators, it looks like you've got a big help group.

Your rich condition will completely disappear after you UNWIRE that SAFC harness, just make sure the connections to the ECU are solid. Check your timing both with the car off and on, of course if you can get it started.

Just PM me if you've got any questions. If you want I can post a video of what a DSM will do just by disconnecting the SAFC and leaving the wire harness there?



EDIT: Alright I re-read your post about the SAFC wiring and you said you removed it and just taped off the wires. If it were me I'd disconnect the battery and pull the ECU, then go over every wire thats ever been cut/spliced/crimped from that SAFC that was there. There shouldn't be any wires going anywhere from that ECU wiring harness except to the back of those connectors that plug into the ECU. Then check your timing...

Ok then i have a big problem. as there are wires that jump from 1 wire to another wire and it has a rubber/plastic coating on it. there are a couple like that. I have never seen another 2g ecu hook up besides my buddys spyder and his looks alot dif then mine. i will try to take pics of it when i get the car back home.

I wanted to bring my car to STM to get properly tuned after it got runing good with the help from you gofer. But i dont want to bring it in the state that te car is in with all those problems. I can only go so far with my reading ability's and you help.

Yes i do, and i apreciate all the help every one has giving me. =)

Ok so i want to cry right now. I got the car home put it in the garage. jacked it up pulled the plugs out, went to put it at top dead center and i got maybe 3/4 of the way there and it bound up at about 5 teeth there. so yeah some how it jumped timing.. and the worst part is before i did that i tryd to start it 1 more time and it was knocking now i know why.. the valves are hitting the pistons.

I am wondering if i can just pull the T Belt and try to re-time it and hope that i dont have bent valves or mangled pistons as all of it is brand new. I just dont understand how it jumped timing like that. I always had problems were the timing belt would be tight then loose, no matter how many times i timed the damn car.

what should i do ? pull the head back off and go from there or just try n re-time it ?

Well I'm going to get some zzz's before the little one wakes up and my oldest decides that she will wake up at 5am to get ready for school again...

 

[gofer]

I checked the logs and something is definitely wrong still. I don't think its your front o2 sensor because it looks like its trying to cycle, its just not because your running so rich.

When was the last time you checked to make sure it was timed correctly? I ask because from looking at the logs your timing is CRAZY just while its idling. I hope your timing belt didn't slip on the cam gears/crank. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/306607-1g-2g-quick-timing-belt-alignment-check.html

I'm sorry to hear your car left you stranded in the rain tonight, leave it to a DSM. The thing that worries me is that you said you checked spark and fuel (good job btw) and both were good, the only things thats left is checking your timing. From looking at your logs though, I hate to say it but thats more than likely what it is. Just follow the above write-up, even take pictures of the results if you have to so you can get clarification. Just cross your fingers you didn't bend any valves if something did happen with the t-belt.

Sorry man.

HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD unfortunately.

Before you go pulling the head or getting it back in time just to find out you bent a valve do a compression check/leak down test. My timing belt slipped a few teeth and before I replaced the timing belt/components I did a compression check.

 

[Calan]

Before you go pulling the head or getting it back in time just to find out you bent a valve do a compression check/leak down test.

I have to disagree on this one.

If it is out of time enough that he can feel the pistons hitting the valves, cranking on it for a compression test will do even more harm than may have already been done.

At least get it back in time first, and then if it "feels" ok when turning it over manually with a wrench on the crank, I would do the leak down test. Only then would I move on to cranking it over for a compression test, if I was fairly confident that everything was ok.

To be honest though, I would just pull the timing components and head and have a look at this point.

 

[gofer]

I have to disagree on this one.

If it is out of time enough that he can feel the pistons hitting the valves, cranking on it for a compression test will do even more harm than may have already been done.

At least get it back in time first, and then if it "feels" ok when turning it over manually with a wrench on the crank, I would do the leak down test. Only then would I move on to cranking it over for a compression test, if I was fairly confident that everything was ok.

To be honest though, I would just pull the timing components and head and have a look at this point.

Like I said in another thread, don't listen to Craig he's just a vendor who knows how to sell over priced parts so we can break them.

If Craig doesn't think its a good idea to do what I mentioned then don't, I only speak from my experience and he has a lot more than I do. My timing belt slipped two teeth and I let it idle for a good 10 minutes thinking the "ticking" sound was lifters. When it didn't go away I checked timing, noticed that it was off and decided that a compression check wouldn't hurt it anymore than it already had been from idling. I figured the damage was already done so whats a few more cranks of the engine to check to see if I could get away with NOT pulling the head. I got lucky, my compression checked good...

 

[Calan]

I think by the sound of it that his jumped quite a bit. I just wounld't take the chance of doing more damage myself.

 

[whiteboyz]

I am actually afraid to pull it apart to see what might have happened. I don't have the time or money to re-do the motor again if it needs new pistons and valves etc. I just don't understand how the timing jumped so bad. I have no way to do a leak down test, but i can do a compression test.

 

[gofer]

I am actually afraid to pull it apart to see what might have happened. I don't have the time or money to re-do the motor again if it needs new pistons and valves etc. I just don't understand how the timing jumped so bad. I have no way to do a leak down test, but i can do a compression test.

The pistons might have a few marks on them but I wouldn't think they cracked, its the valves your going to have to fork out the cash for. Engnbldr on ebay sells good valves for a great price, and of course they are better than OEM.

You said it yourself Brian, the timing belt wouldn't keep its tension and thats always a . The Jay's Racing timing belt tool kit ($50) is worth its weight in gold, especially when it comes to tighting the tensioner.

 

[whiteboyz]

The pistons might have a few marks on them but I wouldn't think they cracked, its the valves your going to have to fork out the cash for. Engnbldr on ebay sells good valves for a great price, and of course they are better than OEM.

You said it yourself Brian, the timing belt wouldn't keep its tension and thats always a . The Jay's Racing timing belt tool kit ($50) is worth its weight in gold, especially when it comes to tighting the tensioner.

I'll have to check it out. I have 2 spare heads, 1 has a broken valve the other is in ok shape if i remember right. if it comes down to it i can just slap that head on. what all does the jays racing timing belt tool do ?

nvm i found it on there site and read all what the 3 tools do. =]

are these any good ? as i searched for the company you gave me but i could not find them.


90-99 Mitusbishi Eclipse Turbo Intake Exhaust Valves : eBay Motors (item 250550399080 end time Apr-16-10 15:24:39 PDT)

how about the Graveyard Motorsports Racing Valves ? they are only $129 and i think its int/exh for the price

 

[gofer]

I was talking about these... 4G63 stainless H/P valves, dropin fit EV-8 grade : eBay Motors (item 390176519847 end time Apr-08-10 15:43:09 PDT)

If your kind of weary about buying eBay items I completely understand, I was too. A good DSM friend out here told me to check this guy out when I was deciding on what parts to put in my built head and I was like WTF eBay! But he sent me to this thread on dsmlink forums, read it front to back and I bet you'll be bidding on those valves tonight. ECMTuning User Support Forums

 

[whiteboyz]

I was talking about these... 4G63 stainless H/P valves, dropin fit EV-8 grade : eBay Motors (item 390176519847 end time Apr-08-10 15:43:09 PDT)

If your kind of weary about buying eBay items I completely understand, I was too. A good DSM friend out here told me to check this guy out when I was deciding on what parts to put in my built head and I was like WTF eBay! But he sent me to this thread on dsmlink forums, read it front to back and I bet you'll be bidding on those valves tonight. ECMTuning User Support Forums

Ok, so i did not pull the head off. i took my chances and just re-timed it. got it dead on and the belt does not get loose anymore. BUT it sounds funny and when i rev it it sounds like something is knocking or whatever. i am still dumping lean and rich, but i will try address that problem either later tonight or in the A.M as there is no school tomorrow.

If i did happen to bend a valve or two i have that spare head, I double checked it tonight and nothing looks bent in the spare head. so if it comes down to it i will just pull my HKS cams and slap them in there.

Now a question about the MAF sliders. Calan told me to set them at zero, ok im a bit confused on this. i figured out how to do that but do i do it before i log or after i log ? like if i just start up link and go into it and hit zero out sliders then hit save. will that actually save it and not let it go crazy like the last ones ? As i checked in one of my logs to figure out how to do it and the dots were crazy. the lowest i think i saw was like 57% and there was a huge spike. at like 2grand and up to maybe 5k it was 87% +

 

[gofer]

Ok, so i did not pull the head off. i took my chances and just re-timed it. got it dead on and the belt does not get loose anymore. BUT it sounds funny and when i rev it it sounds like something is knocking or whatever. i am still dumping lean and rich, but i will try address that problem either later tonight or in the A.M as there is no school tomorrow.

If i did happen to bend a valve or two i have that spare head, I double checked it tonight and nothing looks bent in the spare head. so if it comes down to it i will just pull my HKS cams and slap them in there.

Now a question about the MAF sliders. Calan told me to set them at zero, ok im a bit confused on this. i figured out how to do that but do i do it before i log or after i log ? like if i just start up link and go into it and hit zero out sliders then hit save. will that actually save it and not let it go crazy like the last ones ? As i checked in one of my logs to figure out how to do it and the dots were crazy. the lowest i think i saw was like 57% and there was a huge spike. at like 2grand and up to maybe 5k it was 87% +

If it still sounds funny then odds are there is definitely damage internally.

Like Brian (snowborder) said earlier, just go into your MAFComp tab and right click and select to zero your sliders, then click save to ECU and done.

 

[whiteboyz]

Corey, do you think the pistons got damaged bad ? m hoping if there is any damage it is to just the valves. Ok i will go try that with the maf sliders in a min.

Oh those valves are nice. just one question do you think they are better then buying the grave yard motorsports one's ?

 

[gofer]

Corey, do you think the pistons got damaged bad ? m hoping if there is any damage it is to just the valves. Ok i will go try that with the maf sliders in a min.

Oh those valves are nice. just one question do you think they are better then buying the grave yard motorsports one's ?

I bet the pistons have hardly any marks on them, you didn't really do anything crazy when the timing jumped. A buddy and I were going 60mph doing a 3/4 throttle pull onto the interstate when his belt snapped, just bent valves. He bent almost all of them too, but no piston damage.

Those valves are better in my book because they are easier on my checking account. Besides, the guy that makes them does it out of his garage with his kid and they are kick a$$ parts for the price. Why not support the little companys that are trying to make it? My .02 cents.

Take care Brian and good luck with everything, sounds like you've got a lot on your plate. Don't forget about checking the wiring from the previous owners SAFC install...

 

[whiteboyz]

I bet the pistons have hardly any marks on them, you didn't really do anything crazy when the timing jumped. A buddy and I were going 60mph doing a 3/4 throttle pull onto the interstate when his belt snapped, just bent valves. He bent almost all of them too, but no piston damage.

Those valves are better in my book because they are easier on my checking account. Besides, the guy that makes them does it out of his garage with his kid and they are kick a$$ parts for the price. Why not support the little companys that are trying to make it? My .02 cents.

Take care Brian and good luck with everything, sounds like you've got a lot on your plate. Don't forget about checking the wiring from the previous owners SAFC install...

Ok sweet, I'll find out when i pull it apart tonight.

I hear ya on the price. Did not know they were a little company, thats cool him and his son make them. I will def give them a try.

I will be looking into that further after i get the head all situated.

Thanks Corey for the help