Running Out of Fuel on 550's?

[umiami80]

A well priced piece of crap is still piece of crap

Well your advice is free and =S.H.I.T, just because you believe something is true doesn't deem it so, and when you try to push your false beliefs unto trusting minds is where your stupidity can severely harm.
All I know is I went out with a logger, am able to pull and hold 21+Degrees of timing on Pump 93 at 21PSI and spin all 4 wheels in second after a nice 1-2 shift from launch.

SO you are saying that Garrett is crap? hmmm? My compressor housing says Garrett, so do my exhaust and compressor wheels, so do my center cartridges, in fact it ALL says Garrett minus the exhaust housing. These are all Garrett Parts from Garrett, the Garrett housing is ported out, the Mitsu Housing is ported to accept a Huge 39MM flapper, so I get PERFECT boost control, no spike, no creep unlike Many other turbos. So what you are saying is that Garrett sucks, ok. The Garrett Exhaust housing was swapped out in order to save the $$$$$$$$ from getting a custom garrett manifold, sorry if my good group buy timing and intelligent purchase of a superior turbo ticks you off so much, maybe one day you'll get over it.

You are correct about those Mutt impersonators, like the Rocket Delta by MachV and are CRAP in comparison, http://www.machv.com/rocdeltur.html which looks JUST LIKE THE Mutt and is advertised the same way, but uses crap internals, I hope you were referring to these and not My ETE-12

Good luck with getting over my turbo, in the
future true to base information on facts and not from an ignorant haters mind,


thank you

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

wow, well writen, you appear literate, which is pretty good for a mutt owner. nevertheless, your rturbo is still a piece of ####

Sean

 

[umiami80]

Thanks for the Compliment you hating weak excuse for a DSM enthusiast
Again your opinion = S.H.I.T and coming from your short, ignorant statement you do not have the slightest idea of what you speak of. generally speaking this TURBO n DSM Performance 550's on a STOCK 2G head and cams has hit a record of 11.7. Well your car is PLENTY FAST with a 20G and 720's, Mitsu's engineers decided to make it only 2.5 in and even smaller out, so it'll heat that air up nicely, makes you wonder why a smaller turbo hits faster times on an inferior head and less aggressive exhaust cam? Must be because it moves colder air more efficiently. Chances are you have not run this turbo so you are only speaking from what you may think is right, don't get me wrong the 20G is tried and true, but 20g's and Garrett's are like apples and oranges. Your turbo was a commercial duty performer for a Mitsu Turbo Fuzo truck, a nice diesel. Flows a lot but hardly a custom race turbo, heavy duty at best, Garrett was designed for racing and efficiency from the ground up, sp please do your research before expelling that verbal diarrhea you call advice. And if you bothered to think before you speack you would realize that the Green turbo is a Garrett Hybrid using LESS Garrett parts then a Mutt, and that turbo will yank a 20G, immagine what an ETE-32 will do?
Again you may know about your car but know SHI.T when it comes to ETE's and mutts, so keep your ignorance to yourself, we wouldn't want some innocent DSMr catching your stupidity, and you may be contagious.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by umiami80
Thanks for the Compliment you hating weak excuse for a DSM enthusiast
Again your opinion = S.H.I.T and coming from your short, ignorant statement you do not have the slightest idea of what you speak of. generally speaking this TURBO n DSM Performance 550's on a STOCK 2G head and cams has hit a record of 11.7. Well your car is PLENTY FAST with a 20G and 720's,

Yes, 11.9 my first time ever out on the setup with a shitty 1.87 60 ft at a 119 mph with no tuning and a mix of 110 octane and pump gas. Plenty of mph for a 11.6 or faster. That was at 21 psi on 550's hitting 21 % OVER max injector duty cycle, and hitting fuel cut in 4th gear.

Mitsu's engineers decided to make it only 2.5 in and even smaller out, so it'll heat that air up nicely, makes you wonder why a smaller turbo hits faster times on an inferior head and less aggressive exhaust cam?

The inducer on my 20G is approx 2.25 inches, any inlet larger then that is cool looking and might help keep a slightly better pressure ratio, but its a very negligible affect. The outlet is the same as either a TO4E or TO4B series compressor housing.

Must be because it moves colder air more efficiently. Chances are you have not run this turbo so you are only speaking from what you may think is right, don't get me wrong the 20G is tried and true, but 20g's and Garrett's are like apples and oranges.

Look at the maps before you make ignorant statements sweetie. My 20g is still effcient at 20 psi flow 51 lb/s a minute. thats more then ANY Garret T4 compressor wheel. That why they have been going 10's for so long. Not because they are a band aid but because they are good.

Your turbo was a commercial duty performer for a Mitsu Turbo Fuzo truck, a nice diesel. Flows a lot but hardly a custom race turbo, heavy duty at best, Garrett was designed for racing and efficiency from the ground up, sp please do your research before expelling that verbal diarrhea you call advice.

You believe that about the 30 year old housings and compressor wheels your talking about sweet heart? The entire T3/T4 thing is a bandaid because garret never designed a turbo for high boost low displacement. I don't think any manufacturer has. You are just expelling #### that little dsm grommits tend to believe about the superiority ofGarret.


And if you bothered to think before you speack you would realize that the Green turbo is a Garrett Hybrid using LESS Garrett parts then a Mutt, and that turbo will yank a 20G, immagine what an ETE-32 will do?

You really believe that the 50 trim green will yank a 20g? Try to get through the hype kiddo. The Green will #### up a ete-32 though, i know that.

Again you may know about your car but know SHI.T when it comes to ETE's and mutts, so keep your ignorance to yourself, we wouldn't want some innocent DSMr catching your stupidity, and you may be contagious.

To much time wasted. Suffice it to say my turbo maxes out at 51 lb/min and a 50 trim maxes out at 48. Both have similair pressure ratios but mine is smaller and spools better. And ignore original applications. the 60-1 has gone 145 mph no nitrous, yet its designed for large low boost engines.

Sean

 

[umiami80]

AWWWWWWW!! You called me sweetheart, I am glad that does it for you, and If that did it for me I'd be really lucky but no thanks. I also appreciate the major attention to detail of my thread, you read every word now good for your .

YES the 20G is a wonderful turbo, If I had a 1G I woulda went with it, but I had a 2G, and there isn't as much after market support. I just like the Mutts cuz even though your turbo does flow more, this Smaller turbo somehow turns out similar times, on a stock 2G head no less, so yeah you can have the biggest turbo in the world, but it measn ####. without tuning.

10's ona 20G, Sure no problem witha fully built bottom end, cams, PMS, and a ported head, Immagine what an ETE would turn? Again you can have a major flowing compressor wheel, but if it flows massive quantities of air inefficiently, what good is it? Having a nice 3.0 comporssor inlet is nice to have, cuts down on the intake temp and allows to move a lot of air efficiently, maybe less then your turbo, but more efficiently.

Greens have gone tens, So have ETE-32's, you still seem to think it is all in the turbo, it has nothing to do with that, it is all the tuning. Remember 14B's have gone low 12's, and YEs the Green has teh capability to yank a 20G, but if the 20G has better tuning, it'll win.


Here is what a MILDLY modded 1G can do with just a SAFC holding it together.

Mid 11s on stock engine!
Recipe for a mid-11-second daily driver (excerpted from John Weiss' cookbook): 1 Stock 4G63
1 Stock 1G head
1 Stock 1G intake
1 Stock 1G t-body
4 DSM Perf 650s
1 DSM Perf ETE32
1 Walbro 255lph
1 Super AFC
2 Street Grinds
1 FMIC
1 ACT 2600
1 3-inch exhaust
1 Ported manifold

Add 116 octane to suit to taste. Beat ingredients at high speed for 11.51 seconds or until the competition is done.
http://www.dsm-performance.com/catalog/default.php


Again it is all in the tuning, he used #### web cams, I would only use HKS, and remeber it isn't how much a turbo can flow, it must be able to do it efficiently. 20G's have been around for a Lot longer then all these new turbos, so 20G's would have more times, but doesn't mean they are worse.

 

[hyboost]

hey hey hey!!!!!

just to set record strait. MY car dosn't run 9 notting my best is 12.1@128 no 2nd gear. Yes going 1st to 3rd. yes on the bottle
my car dosn't make 560hp it make 581hp to be exact on a 60-1 at 24#
with 75 shot.

Now thats clear lets start to say umiami80 car with 550's on a 40 degree
night at 100% duty cycle it was geting fuel cut. I recomned 750 because
he said he's going to upgrade his head(more air = more fuel) No reson
to buy inj's twice.

as for MY FRIENDS car we did max out 550's and now he got more mods and planning for more so once again need that fuel

anyways i never told umiami80 any of that 9.0 bs he definetly has his
own opinions of things he reads or hears

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by umiami80
AWWWWWWW!! You called me sweetheart, I am glad that does it for you, and If that did it for me I'd be really lucky but no thanks. I also appreciate the major attention to detail of my thread, you read every word now good for your .

YES the 20G is a wonderful turbo, If I had a 1G I woulda went with it, but I had a 2G, and there isn't as much after market support. I just like the Mutts cuz even though your turbo does flow more, this Smaller turbo somehow turns out similar times, on a stock 2G head no less, so yeah you can have the biggest turbo in the world, but it measn ####. without tuning.

10's ona 20G, Sure no problem witha fully built bottom end, cams, PMS, and a ported head, Immagine what an ETE would turn? Again you can have a major flowing compressor wheel, but if it flows massive quantities of air inefficiently, what good is it? Having a nice 3.0 comporssor inlet is nice to have, cuts down on the intake temp and allows to move a lot of air efficiently, maybe less then your turbo, but more efficiently.

Greens have gone tens, So have ETE-32's, you still seem to think it is all in the turbo, it has nothing to do with that, it is all the tuning. Remember 14B's have gone low 12's, and YEs the Green has teh capability to yank a 20G, but if the 20G has better tuning, it'll win.


Here is what a MILDLY modded 1G can do with just a SAFC holding it together.

Mid 11s on stock engine!
Recipe for a mid-11-second daily driver (excerpted from John Weiss' cookbook): 1 Stock 4G63
1 Stock 1G head
1 Stock 1G intake
1 Stock 1G t-body
4 DSM Perf 650s
1 DSM Perf ETE32
1 Walbro 255lph
1 Super AFC
2 Street Grinds
1 FMIC
1 ACT 2600
1 3-inch exhaust
1 Ported manifold

Add 116 octane to suit to taste. Beat ingredients at high speed for 11.51 seconds or until the competition is done.
http://www.dsm-performance.com/catalog/default.php


Again it is all in the tuning, he used #### web cams, I would only use HKS, and remeber it isn't how much a turbo can flow, it must be able to do it efficiently. 20G's have been around for a Lot longer then all these new turbos, so 20G's would have more times, but doesn't mean they are worse.

That 11.51 was at about the same mph as my 11.9, just better driving, and the green went 10.7 with a 1g mas and HALF the mods that the ete-32 had to have to touch its time. I did it on half pump gas, half race gas, just an safc and no tuning by the way. Mutts struglle to compete and every fast one is sponsored. IM just your average kid who threw on some mods and managed to get enough whp to run mid 11's.

Sean

 

[umiami80]

anyways i never told umiami80 any of that 9.0 bs he definetly has his

SOrry D, I coulda sworn that your car was a low 10, High 9, setup, certainly not a 9.0 flat, we all knew that, but having 581WHP should net low times. Damn I have been listening to thd wrong people. the guys at the club said it runs low 10's at full weight, that is what I get for listening to people I suppose. Now you won't believe about my car.

IT was my EGT PROBE, it is a POS, my car was nowhere near as hot as we had thought it was, I figured this out as I started my car, the probe wouldn't move, then all of sudden started to dance around between 1400 and 1600 and then point strate down and so on, and then shut off again. Either it is a VERY BAD ground, or a bad probe, me thinks the wastach EGT probe. I leaned the car out, statring at -15% ending at -12% at 15PSI, then upped it to 20PSI, and leaned it out, I am STILL running rich, and the car keeps me in the seat until 7200RPMs when I shift. The probe will gop from 800 all the way down to 1600+ then back top 1400 while dancing and skipping, not linear at all, this all happened while crusing in 5th gear at 3000 RPMS. My lifter tick is almost all gone, throttle response is amaizing, spoolup is way faster and hits harder, and the car jsut feels great. Thank you so much for helping me with my car, it has never run so fast before, now I may need tranny parts from you, I will call you later.


Yeah I believe the green is a better turbo then a ETE-32 as it has the numbers. Some kid told me the Mutts are hard to run with SAFC and need atleast a PMS top be making serious numbers. My turbo has made 400WHP on a stock 2G bottom end, but with massive tuning capabilities and race gas, still impressive for what the turbo flows.

and the green went 10.7 with a 1g mas

How the hell did he run a 1G mas?

YEah 20G's pull alright, what is you lag on it 4000RPM'? You havethe same exhaust wheel as a 16g?

 

[LandoAWD]

How the hell did he run a 1G mas?

You CAN hack them...

 

[TALONTED]

I am out of fuel with my 550s on my Big 16G. ONLY in the cold 10-30 degree days though, if its 70 out, I am ok, but at 18psi I am runnin .83s at high rpm ever since I got my cams. I have 660s on the way.
850s? Whoever this guy is, is definitly full of ####. ETA12 with 850s is like 14B with 660s.... wayyyyyyyy too much fuel.

 

[umiami80]

You CAN hack them...

Still on a 1G mass and high 10's amazing.

ETA12 with 850s

Never said 850's, said 750's which isn't that bad, atleast 660's.

 

[LandoAWD]

Blaha was running 11s with a 1g MAS and , I beleive, a 16g......

 

[umiami80]

O so it was a Blaha mass, they do good work, may send my mass to them one day, is it worth it? Won't my car run leaner as to missed counts?

 

[LandoAWD]

Originally posted by umiami80
O so it was a Blaha mass, they do good work, may send my mass to them one day, is it worth it? Won't my car run leaner as to missed counts?

Al is a great guy, and can modify the MAF to work with a stock fuel system to eliminate cut..or he can remove the lower section entirely and you can use an AFC to tune. I can pull to the redline with no cut out.

 

[nine5raptor]

the blaha mas is for 1Gs, not 2Gs unless you want to go backwards...

 

[LandoAWD]

Originally posted by nine5raptor
the blaha mas is for 1Gs, not 2Gs unless you want to go backwards...

This is true, but we don't have any info (per his profile) as to what kind of car he has

:cough: update your profile umiami80

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Harder to tune with an safc? Explain that....its just not as good and needs better tuning to turn any numbers. Not to mention greens don't do any of the stupid #### Mutts do. Andthe greens stupid. Stay mitsu or go full garret.

 

[umiami80]

The SAFC is a Very simple device when compaired to PMS's and stand alones, all it does is slow down or speed up the stock ECU signal to the injectors and reads engine codes that is it. Immagine having a laggy, high flowing turbo and trying ot get it to run perfectly on pump gas. You lean out the injectors until around 4000+ grand and then WHAM 20+PSI out of a 800+CFM turbo, the motor yanks timing down to the ground and you must start to build timing again.

16G's and 20G's are easier to tune via SAFC's, the Mutts where dynoed and tuned with a PMS as you can keep the timing up and not worry about the suddend detonation. Hell teh SAFC isn't an exact science, it uses throttle position to administer fuel instead of Absolute Manifold pressure which is stupid. If you spend teh day on teh dyno and with a logger you cna get it exact but as soon as the weather changes, your screwed. I much rather have a PMS and set my base timing na d be done with it and let EGT's be my guide, it cuts out all the bullshitt.

I may experiment by adding a three bar map sensor to my throttle sensor in my AFC, it will only give hi throttle under full boost so it'll help a little.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

, Ok, allow to to reiterate that the green and ete-32 are not larger then 20g's. And me and my friends were the first people to ever do the map sensor mod so thank us. Shitty mutts just need the additional tuning ability because they make no power neways.

 

[umiami80]

Shitty mutts just need the additional tuning ability because they make no power neways.

Ok skippy, I thought you were an educated DSMR, but you are a closed minded hater, please if you must go and jerk off to your 20G else were, the DSM community does not need to see your unhealthy obsession with your hair dryer. It is clear that you cannot contain yourself so please do not come back until you check yourself. Then maybe we can have a somewhat educated conversation for someone to learn rather then wonder what the hell is wrong with you. You know godamn well Garrett internals are better then Mitsu, not that the Mitsu's are bad but Garrett improved upon and allows more oil and cooler trubo operation.

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How can Mistu compete with that, they have price and availability.

were the first people to ever do the map sensor mod so thank us.

What ever helps you get to sleep faster at night, you keep thinking that oh DSM 20G god. How long did it take for the SAFC to learn the new voltage since you never hit 30PSI and only gave out 3.5 or so volts? Did you have to retune the SAFC everyday? Was it worth it?

allow to to reiterate that the green and ete-32 are not larger then 20g's

No they just pull = or better times and are more street able, that's all. Greens run high 10's and are more efficient then a 20G and will make more HP on pump gas, same Goes for the ETE-32 and is internally gated, not bad for a simple bolt on off the shelf turbo. Both have made over 400WHP on pump gas. It is nioce to have a off the shelf internally gated turbo that hauls ass, here is one map.

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It is the flow rate of a ETE-32 and it flows 800CFM's at 15psi, that isn't small and is a lot higher then a lot of 20G's, but I am not sure to what 20G you run and again turbo size has nothing to do with performance, I have seen 14B's flat out pull 20G's, all in the tuning.


AS far as Mutts being crap, please keep your ignorannce to yourself, stupidity is contagious and If you keep running your mouth with this #### you may infect the board.

Now what does your 20G flow? Is it 640CFM at 15PSI, 700+? There are different flow rates, trying to determine what 20G do you have again? IS this your map?

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Just truing to figure out what you flow, running a High 11 at 21PSI is impressive. No try to be informational and not irrational, we all know what you think of mutts and that is your opinion, what you need to understand that now matter how many times you repeat it it isn't true plus there are WAY MORE 20G's out there Vs. any mutt so you guys have a head start.

 

[umiami80]

It seems there is a fall off in a 20G up top where the mutt keeps on flowin, Credit the efficency of Garrett components (minus the Ported Mitsu Exhaust housing). Speaking of which, he is some nice pics of what they do to Mistu Exhaust housings.

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Maybe I am wrong, it all depends on which 20G you run. SO at 21 PSI you were flowing 680cfm max flow @ 68% 20.7psi. And have 28psi max boost limited by compressor wheel speed unless it is clipped then maybe hit 30PSI?

Mutts can hit 30PSI outa the box, I just like there setup and seems to be superior in flow design and efficiency.

He is a nice comparison of My Wheel, a 16G wheel, your wheel, and a ETE-32 wheel.

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Again Mutts aren't the best turbos, but they certainly aren't crap like you had stated

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

If it makes you feel better I have a ballistic housing .63 stage 3 60-1 to4e now. I know all about the benfits. I've also driven a 46 trim, a 50 trim and a 60 trim ball bearing. I owend ems 0001 if that impresses you, and I dont think you properly understand the map sensor mods. You seem to be confusing a few things here

I have nothing against Garrets although they do not clearly beat Mitsu turbos like you want to believe. I merely think *Your* turbo is crap. My 20g hits full boost on 272/272's at 3500 rpm and can hold as much boodt as I can safely run until 9000 rpm effciently. Do you know how to convert lb/min into CFM? If you do the remap those charts and overlay them, you might be surprised what you see. I admit that Garret turbos do have better center sections and yet i fail to see the benefits. Treat either turbo right and both will last long beyond the life of your racing on that turbo. Over 100k miles. Dont treat it right and both will need a rebuild within year. Its all hype. Get oil, don't surge and don't coke internally.

You don't quite understand the map sensor mod. Lets say I hit 2.5 volts max. I set my high throttle to 50 percent and my low throttle to 0%. Then as I increase in voltage it makes a perfectly lineat transition between high and low throttle. Boost spikes and such are not a major enough affect to matter, if I go on race gas I can raise my high throttle to 70% and lean myself out all the way across the board.

20G's have made as much power, pump gas or race gas as any 50 trim hybrid. The amazing thing is that they can do this with a physically far smaller wheel. I personally think all hybrid turbos are utter crap. I installed an FP30 today on my best friends car so we'll see if that can change my mind. Just keep in mind, I don't have a mitsu fetish, I merely think hybrids are stuipd are your in particular.

 

[umiami80]

Thansk for teh reply. I undertsnad that the 3-bar map sensor is replacing the Hi/Lo throttle signal by not diping into high throttle mode until you hit full boost. Now since my WOT= 5Volts from my Throttle sensor, and say 21PSI (What I am running now) = 3.5 volts correct? And the SAFC will determine that this isn't high throttle so I must set 3.5 volts as high throttle.

What I am asking is, won't the SAFC soon learn that 3.5 volts is the maxx, and slowly adjust to it, and I have to slowly increase my settings until I hit 100%? Sort of a "Fuzzy Logic" Learning curve now that 3.5 volts is max and this is all the SAFC will see?

Did you see any added benefit from doing thsi mod or is it all crap? Waste of time??

Say what you will about Mutts, FP is on the ball, I bet that FP-30 will turn some heads.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Don't get the safc and ecu confused. All you set is a percentage of 5 volt in which you switch from low to high throttle maps. Even with the stock setup you can set it to 3.5 volts(70%) and thats where your high throttle maps wil begin to come in. The SAFC has no logic and expects nothing. Its dosen't car if you never reach 5 volts, all it does is use a percentage of any 5 volt sensor to transition and any points you select.

FP is cool but not cost effcient, a new garret is 550 and a 50 trim green is 1375. Its for the lazy, not for the true performers.

Sean

 

[TheHater]

What a waste of time it was reading this post.

Guy with the MUTT:
accept that anything that dsm-performance makes is a heaping pile of shit. OK

The "guy" at the dyno is obviosly a f'n ###. You should never max out your 550's w/a ete 12. ETE 12 max'out ~ 37.5lb/min which =.2385 kg/sec. sm16g maxes almost the same

A small 16g max's out dahm near the exact same. I'm running 17psi on 91 octane and 17degees of timing not runn'n out of fuel on pump!

Do yourself a favor and dump that POS dsm-performance turbo and get a 16g. It has ran faster and spools faster.

If you maxing out your 550's on that POS turbo, learn to tune.