running out of fuel?!?!

[spidy3]

Parts of my setup that pertains to issue....

Denso 660cc injectors
190 walbro (rewired)
aeromotive afpr
TD06 20g
Keydiver chip with base fuel press. @ 43psi
S-AFC (blue with 4 buttons)
Maf-T
Half a$$ tune with my stock O2 sensor (until i can afford a wideband)
Pocketlogger for datalogging
comp cams (if that matters)

Here is my issue...

I can tune my 20g @ 18psi but anything over that it seems like I cant get enough fuel.
I have my MAF-T set at '0' (430cc) for injectors (was told to do so by keydiver) and have the other settings all at '9' (richens 35%). I have my AFPR set @ 44psi. When I tried to tune my car @ 20psi I had all those settings plus my AFC was @ +50 and I was still running lean. I upped my fuel pressure regulator to see if that would help and after several attemps it is now @ 60psi and seems like its still just a little too lean.

Does it seem normal to have to put my AFPR that high? esp since my chip is set to 43psi for stock fuel pressure.

any info will be helpful! Im hoping to get my car dynotuned in the next couple of months but wanted to make sure I had everything setup correctly and nothing holding me back from getting it tuned at a higher boost level.

Dom

 

[Maglin]

Running to much fuel pressue is very bad when running lots of boost. Fuel pump volume output drops when pressure rises. Set it back to 44 psi. I actually like to set mine to around 35-40 PSI depending on how much boost I plan to run. If I'm tuning for 30 PSI then I would rather run 35 PSI and retune the entire fuel map. It's cause you will have 65 PSI of fuel pressure at 30 PSI. If you are tuning the map and not a AFC it's easier to compensate for as you will notice at higher load levels that you are adding more fuel then you should. It's the pump reaching it's limit and it can't supply the volume needed. So pressure stops to rise cause of it.

What is your injector DC? Or what is your injector opening ms? Why do you think you are running lean? I would say you are probably running really rich. You have your MAFT adding 35% fuel and your AFC adding 50%? That is way to much fuel. Your most likely hitting 100% DC and your injectors won't flow any more fuel. Try zereoing out your MAFT and take your SAFC down to 15%. Start with lower boost and check your knock. You will also be running lower timing do the the added air flow to the PCM. With your settings now it's got to be crazy high around the high 20's to low 30's for advance. Way to much. Basicly need more info. You have enough of a fuel system to push 400 HP. Much over that your pump and your injectors just won't be enough. You really don't want to run over 80% DC on your injectors. They start to really heat up above that and get unreliable. But at around 100% DC you should be able to produce around 400 HP.

 

[CanadianTSi]

In a proper working setup you should have lots of fuel.

You pump might be going out, you may have a clogged filter or injector, your AFPR may not be raising Fuel pressure 1:1 with boost.

 

[spidy3]

I think my injectors were just over 20ms (20.52 maybe) at WOT at 20psi. I can check for sure tonight when I drive home.

I think im running lean from my stock O2 (i know, bad tuning helper) and from knock.

I will try and log a run tonight and post it.

Also when I put my new chip in and AFPR my car would start then stall with the MAFT set at '0' across the board. once I added more fuel like up to '7' or '8' then it would stay running.

thanks for replys also! im running on my last nerves with this car

***edit***

Run @ 21 psi in 2nd gear

MAFT settings same as above
AFPR 60psi
S-AFC set for:
- Karman (GM MAF)
- High throttle 78%
- from 4k to 5k rpm +45%
- 6k and up +44%


RPM 4468 --- 5062 --- 5531 --- 6031 --- 6593 --- 7187 --- 7625

Knock 0 --- 0 --- 7 --- 6 --- 5 --- 4 --- 3

Timing 13 --- 15 --- 13 --- 15 --- 16 --- 17 --- 18

O2 .86 --- .82 --- .82 --- .82 --- .80 --- .80 --- .80

airflow 1568hz 1606 across

TPS% 96 --- 97 --- 97 --- 98 --- 100 --- 100 --- 100

I will log one with Injector P/W.

Also can u change Injector P/W to Duty cycle on pocketlogger? if so how?

 

[spidy3]

AFC @ 4k- 5k +45%
6k -8k +44%

afpr @ 56psi @ idle
maft @ '0' '7' '7' '7'
keydiver chip adjusted for setup.



Time,.....RPM,. Knock,. Timing,. O2,. Airflow,. Inj P/W,. TPS,.. Inj D/C
00:02.08,.....4875.0, 0.0,..14.0,..0.86,..1582.0,..22.05,..100.0,...89.58
00:02.21,.....4969.0, 0.0,..14.0,..0.86,..1607.0,..23.85,..100.0,...98.76
00:02.32,.....5031.0, 0.0,..14.0,..0.84,..1607.0,..25.9,..100.0,....108.59
00:02.45,.....5125.0, 0.0,..15.0,..0.84,..1607.0,..26.15,..100.0,...111.68
00:02.56,.....5156.0, 6.0,..13.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..25.64,..100.0,...110.17
00:02.68,.....5219.0, 8.0,..12.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..24.87,..100.0,...108.16
00:02.79,.....5344.0, 8.0,..12.0,..0.84,..1607.0,..24.1,..100.0,....107.33
00:02.92,.....5406.0, 7.0,..13.0,..0.84,..1607.0,..23.59,..100.0,...106.27
00:03.03,.....5438.0, 7.0,..13.0,..0.84,..1607.0,..23.08,..100.0,...104.59
00:03.16,.....5500.0, 7.0,..13.0,..0.84,..1607.0,..23.33,..100.0,...106.93
00:03.28,.....5594.0, 7.0,..13.0,..0.84,..1607.0,..23.59,..100.0,...109.97
00:03.42,.....5656.0, 6.0,..14.0,..0.84,..1607.0,..23.85,..100.0,...112.41
00:03.53,.....5719.0, 6.0,..14.0,..0.84,..1607.0,..23.85,..100.0,...113.67
00:03.67,.....5781.0, 6.0,..15.0,..0.84,..1607.0,..23.59,..100.0,...113.64
00:03.79,.....5875.0, 7.0,..14.0,..0.84,..1607.0,..23.59,..100.0,...115.49
00:03.92,.....5969.0, 7.0,..14.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..22.31,..100.0,...110.97
00:04.05,.....5969.0, 6.0,..15.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..21.54,..100.0,...107.14
00:04.17,.....6031.0, 6.0,..15.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..22.31,..100.0,...112.13
00:04.32,.....6156.0, 6.0,..15.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..22.31,..100.0,...114.45
00:04.46,.....6250.0, 6.0,..16.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..22.05,..100.0,...114.84
00:04.59,.....6313.0, 6.0,..16.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..20.77,..100.0,...109.27
00:04.72,.....6375.0, 5.0,..16.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..20.77,..100.0,...110.34
00:04.84,.....6406.0, 5.0,..16.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..20.51,..100.0,...109.49
00:04.98,.....6500.0, 5.0,..16.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..20.26,..100.0,...109.74
00:05.11,.....6594.0, 5.0,..16.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..20.77,..100.0,...114.13
00:05.28,.....6688.0, 4.0,..16.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..20.51,..100.0,...114.31
00:05.42,.....6719.0, 4.0,..17.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..20.26,..100.0,...113.44
00:05.55,.....6813.0, 4.0,..17.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..19.74,..100.0,...112.07
00:05.69,.....6875.0, 4.0,..17.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..20.26,..100.0,...116.07
00:05.84,.....6906.0, 3.0,..18.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..19.74,..100.0,...113.6
00:05.98,.....6938.0, 3.0,..18.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..18.97,..100.0,...109.68
00:06.13,.....7125.0, 3.0,..18.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..19.23,..100.0,...114.18
00:06.26,.....7156.0, 3.0,..18.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..18.72,..100.0,...111.63
00:06.42,.....7219.0, 3.0,..18.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..19.23,..100.0,...115.68
00:06.57,.....7281.0, 2.0,..18.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..18.2,..100.0,...110.43
00:06.72,.....7375.0, 2.0,..18.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..19.23,..100.0,...118.18
00:06.86,.....7375.0, 2.0,..18.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..18.97,..100.0,...116.59
00:07.01,.....7500.0, 2.0,..18.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..16.67,..100.0,...104.19
00:07.17,.....7563.0, 1.0,..18.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..18.2,..100.0,...114.71
00:07.34,.....7531.0, 1.0,..18.0,..0.82,..1607.0,..17.95,..100.0,...112.65
00:07.50,.....7594.0, 1.0,..18.0,..0.8,..1607.0,..18.2,..100.0,...115.18
00:07.65,.....7688.0, 0.0,..19.0,..0.78..,1607.0..,17.18,..100.0,..110.07..

 

[Maglin]

You are right. You are lean. You can't run more than 100% DC. Your log shows you running over 100%. I was thinking that 20ms was like 10% over 100%. You need to check out your piping.

Their is something wrong with you setup. Check for any boost leaks. Probably from the T/B to the Head due to your idle issues. You definitly have a problem. Your AFPR is set way to high. Your knock sensor might also be bad. Might want to check it to see if it's even still in once piece. If you chip is for your injectors you shouldn't need anything to make it idle. Ie. You MAFT, and SAFC should be all zereod out and running 38 PSI of fuel pressure.

 

[spidy3]

Ill get a boost leak test done as soon as I can.

The thing is that my car idled and ran ok until I put a new keydiver chip in that up'd my base fuel pressure to 43psi and I guess he remapped a couple of things due to my setup. At first I thought something was wrong with the chip and had him send me another one and it did the same thing. I then installed the AFPR because I thought thats why it wouldnt stay running.

As for the MAFT being zero'd out... that would mean even injector size should be at '0' which is for 430cc injectors correct?

I appreciate the help, atleast im getting somewhere now!

 

[Maglin]

No set the injectors to 450cc and zero everything else out. Also zero out the AFC. You are running very very rich. You can't go off your NBO2. With the amount of fuel you are pushing you should be running around 30 PSI of boost and putting out around 400 HP to the wheels. But from the sounds of it and your logs that isn't the case. Haveing the MAFT @ 430 might have been what is causing you all these issues to begin with. Set to 450cc and start over. You might also want to clean your MAF with some TB cleaner. You can use break cleaner also but it can damage your MAF if you really drown it out. I've used both and never had a problem. Probably cleaned 60+ MAFs in my life. Usually saving the customer a bunch of money cause their MAFs where dirty. Any amount of dirt or grime on the MAF wires will really throw off the numbers.

You can use brake cleaner to look for leaks after your TB. Do it with engine running. Most likely causes are improper TB gasket install and back injector insulators. If you have both it's pulling in a lot of unmetered air at idle and would also require you to add fuel on your SAFC or MAFT.

 

[DJ23GSX]

What happens to the knock when you take fuel out with the safc?

There is a such thing as rich knock.

 

[Maglin]

There is a such thing as rich knock.

Yes.

 

[spidy3]

Ok, so I put my AFPR at 50psi, set all MAFT knobs to 0 and car wouldnt stay running until I turned the AFC up to around +40%.

Wouldnt that mean I have a really big air leak somewhere and Id either hear it or the car wouldnt run at all? That is if the proper setup was having the MAFT at all zeros and just adjusting with the AFC. There must be something really wrong.

Also, what should my EGT gauge read when idle and when cruising at about 70mph at 3k?
My probe is located in the #1 cylinder runner in exhaust mani about 6" from head. Or whatever the measurement they say to put it at.

 

[Maglin]

you have to put your MAFT back to 450cc injectors. I've given you more than enough info to help you out. It's up to you now.