Rod Bearing Replacement...

[InfiniteGSX]

A little reference as to why im asking this, about 8 months ago i had to shut my audio shop down because i could not afford being robbed all the time. Right after my 7 bolt seized up. A friend traded me a rebuilt 6 bolt for some wheels i had to help me out. After selling almost everything i have owned to complete the job and replace numerous parts such as the alternator i mentioned the other day, i believe one of my rod bearings is starting to spin. I was about to start a new job and this has to happen. I havent ran the car more than a mile since i heard the faint knocking sound only during a certain rpm, because i dont want to risk further damage. im tired. im exhausted. i have lost everything to try to get my car running again all because my son Talon was born right after I bought it. it holds alot of sentimental value to me.

Now onto the qwest. The knock sound i hear is very faint and only around 2200-2500 rpm. so i know its not bad yet. 4 rod bearings and replacement oil will cost 60 total. what are my chances of the motor lasting long enough that i can start bringing in a steady income long enough to pickup a brand new motor to put into it? i have a guarenteed job. but live 35 miles from that job. or any job. what should i look for to base my "assumption" of the damage when i pull the pan? ive replaced rod bearings on numerous cars but never seen the end result to see how long they lasted. im desperate. i even put the car up for sale/trade because im just burnt on repairs. i need a good temp solution till i can find a perm solution.

should i go with the new bearings and pray?

btw im on my cell so i am sorry for spelling and grammar.

 

[rare1]

I would try to isolate the knock first.Could be balance shaft bearings or something just vibrating at a certain rpm.If not drop the pan and do bearings.Good luck!

 

[mikelv]

I just want to say I'm sorry about your situation man, I can relate to what you’re going through. I know it sucks to be broke and on the verge with car repairs and real life issues. Also, glad to hear you have steady work, so I’ll do my best to help you figure this car out.
Anyways, just to give you some insight, as the other guy said, you might not even have problems with the bearings. I have seen these type of symptoms related to a multitude of issues.
You could have a balance shaft issue or moreover, a balance issue period. Last year I ran a block hard with a “cut” crank and began to notice around the 3000 rpm range a serious vibration. Well eventually something just let go and when I pulled the pan, bam! The entire crankshaft had broken into two pieces.
Also, I highly doubt you have premature thrust bearing wear, (crankwalk) but it is possible, as on any engine. A lot of these issues can evolve on an engine from having a heavier pressure plate than stock, but if your profile is updated, I see you still are running a stock clutch.
Another possibility would be a bad clutch, or some chatter coming from a heavier clutch or pressure plate. Once again, it seems you’re still stock in that department.

Now I'm sorry I do not have any experience with balance shafts, so hopefully someone can chime in here on that. If there is a way to check the balance shaft for issues before you have to pull the pan, than by all means do that first!

The best thing you can do right now is not drive the car. If you can catch a bus, take a taxi, get a ride with the wife, or ask someone at work to carpool. Pay them for gas, most people wouldn’t mind.
Bottom line, you can take a long night to do this but it’s pretty easy to get the oil pan off. You will be able to tell from that. If you need help with that let us know.
Now once you get the pan off, you want to have some sort of flashlight and do a good “feel” around and visual inspection. Give all the rods and rod bolts a good turn to make sure nothing is loose and “slopping” around. If you have a rod bolt or main stud/nut that is loose, get out the torque wrench, go through your tightening sequence outlined in the shop manual, and get it right. If you need help with that let us know. Also, get yourself a ½ inch extention and turn that rotating assemble to see if you can mock the noise or see something off or loose.
If you check out everything for tightness, make a good visual inspection for damage, and still see nothing, your next step would be to check crankshaft endplay. You need to get yourself a “feeler” gauge and some sort of pry bar to be able to move the crank. Check your thrust bearing to make sure the crank is within tolerance. Once again, this procedure is outlined in the shop manual, but if you need assistance with it, let us know. I believe the endplay on a 90 motor is .004” but don’t quote me on that.
9 times out of 10 when you pull the oil pan in this situation, you’re going to see your problem stare you right in the face. Unfortunately, if you see nothing obvious, and you check your endplay out, you’re probably going to have a problem in the balance shafts or the clutch. Do this for now, and if we find nothing, we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.
To pull the oil pan and put it back, all you will need to do it get yourself some Black RTV to remake the oil pan gasket, which will only cost you about 6 dollars. A smaller tube will actually only be a few bucks. A feeler gauge is not as accurate but will still work and only cost a few bucks at AutoZone. I know you are tight for money so I’m trying to get things as cheap as I can for you. Don’t waste your money on parts yet until you figure out what is wrong. I know most all the major parts stores nationwide are running oil change specials and you can get a conventional special and filter for 15 dollars and synthetic for 20. But like I said, don’t waste money on bearings yet, let’s see what the problem is first.

Quick question, do you lose clutch pedal pressure at anytime for no reason, or under acceleration? Or is it been difficult to get the car into gear?
Also, how is the timing belt and balance shaft belt? Are your belts new, I remember you saying you just got this motor rebuilt.

Was this crank cut? Do you know if you have over-sized bearings? Also, was the rotating assembly balanced? I don't want to scare you but these issues could lead you to major problems. If you're not sure about what size bearings you have, or if the crank was cut, we're going to have to find out. At a minumum eventually, you'll need machine work, but if the bearings are already over-sized and the problems are coming from that, then replacing the bearings isn't going to do anything for you. The problems will just come back or the crank will snap.
More on this later, but let's not worry about that shit right now, we'll take it one step at time brother, don't stress, we'll get it right for ya.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

i live 35 miles from the nearest city. no bus or taxi comes out here. i also do not have a second car or a wife with a car. act 2600 clutch on a stock flywheel. rebuilt 6 bolt and no bs. i was told ross pistons and eagle rods on new oem bearings. mls gasket and arp studs, stock head. it sounds like rod bearing to me.

***Computer Edit*** If I start the car, there is a faint "lifter tick" sound. Big surprise, its a DSM! Rev the motor just a tad and you hear it, knocking that goes with the speed of the motor. But its still pretty light. Not heavy. But enough to keep my car from being sold if I wanted to sell it.

 

[mikelv]

Well that's a decision your going to have to make. If you want to sell it, then make sure it's sold as is. A little lifter tick is common, but knocking in the pan isn't. Like I said, you'll probably see the issue staring you in the face once you pull the pan.

Read over this article about running an aftermarket clutch with stock flywheel, an interesting read regarding the step of the flywheel.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/93356-act-2600lb-clutch-information.html

RRE's Clutch And Flywheel Tech Info

You could still have a problem in this department. I would most def check the pan first and see if you spun a bearing or the crank has moved on you.

If you have standard size bearings, then noonoe had machined the crank yet. Pull it apart and see what you have.

 

[crash89]

what are my chances of the motor lasting long enough that i can start bringing in a steady income long enough to pickup a brand new motor to put into it?

I drove around on a spun bearin in my car for at least 2 months. Worked great till one day i HAD to use the interstate. The on ramp killed me, KLUNK BAM BOOM! there she went. So I would imagine if you baby it you can go a decent amount of time. Maybe drain some oil and put a heavier weight in and maybe an oil treatment could delay the bearing from getting worse.. Hope everything works out for ya man.

 

[mikelv]

Man, you could replace bearings long enough to sell it. That would cost you about 50 bucks for some RTV and the bearings. If you do that, it'll just break again, but that's up to you.

If you have rotating assembly problems and you're going to keep it, you will need machine work.

 

[rare1]

Try pulling the plug wires one at a time.If the knock goes away on a certain cylinder it probably is a rod bearing.Some people use this method and some don't,I have and it worked for me.No way to tell if its a main bearing unless you drop the pan and mains.

 

[1SickAuto]

also if you spun some type of bearing there will be metal shavings in your oil pan. drain your oil, but take a red shop towel and filter the oil. when its all drained look at the towel and see if you see any type of glittery metal shaving. if there is, then pull the pan and change rod bearings. mine did the same thing a month ago and i changed mine and havent had a problem since. check the crank for score marks, if the is none chances are you will be good with a new set of bearings

 

[InfiniteGSX]

haven't had a chance to do this yet.... But now I know this motor had to have been beat on badly before I owned it. Or maybe it already spun a rod bearing or something and they just replaced it for a temp fix to get rid of it or some shit. Every day I go outside to start it to see what it does, sometimes it knocks, sometimes it doesn't. Well I moved the car into the back yard to jam some music while pulling crap off of my eclipse. No knock, kinda low rpm at idle tho... shut it off to realize I ran something over that I wanted to keep. So I tried starting it, lately I been having starter issues cause I belive bad starter position. this time it was it. didn't wanna grab the flywheel. So I had to loosen the starter and move it up (away from the flywheel more) about a mm or two, then tighten it down. Started it up, moved the car off the part. turned it off and went about my business.

Well it got dark, so I put my tools away and started the car, Went to put it into gear and give the motor some throttle to move the car, and noticed as I reved the motor, the car would vibrate really heavy, gave it some more gas and the vibration got worse as the rpm's gone up. Very strange, then all of a sudden started hearing a clank noice. Not a knock or tick, a Clank! Like something was falling or being thrown around a metal case. now its a consistant clank. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm tired of the car, Going to inspect it and thats it, Car is being shoved into storage and I'm gonna try to come up with some cash for this 94 Red Non Turbo Talon thats reallllly cheap to daily drive for a while to save up to have a REAL motor build done. I'm tired of messing with this peice of crap hand me down shhhhhh.

 

[Jeff99GS]

then all of a sudden started hearing a clank noice. Not a knock or tick, a Clank! Like something was falling or being thrown around a metal case. now its a consistant clank. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.

That sure sounds like a Rod Bearing getting spun onto itself. Or a Balance Shaft bearing getting chewed up and spit out.

You should NOT have kept starting it. Starting the engine is the most likely time to spin a bearing cause there is NO oil buildup/pressure at the bearing for a split second.

Sorry man, sounds like you're going to have to pull the oil pan and see what happened. If you do have a spun bearing and you keep starting it or driving it...expect to need a whole new block soon when this rod decides it wants to come out the side of the block.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Spun rod bearing making a "clank" sound? I've never heard that before. Ehh it doesn't really matter anymore. I'm sick and tired of dealing with it. I'm just going to buy this 93 Red Non Turbo Talon for 500 bucks and drive that around for a while, while I save up for a REAL motor. This is the exact reason I don't like buying other people's modified stuff. I'm willing to bet shit is really falling apart inside and that its not a spun rod bearing, well most likely spun now, but yeah.

 

[Jeff99GS]

Well Its hard to know what a CLANK sound is with out hearing it myself. But When a bearing spins onto itself it makes a Screeching sound for a split second when the actual bearing halves rotate on top of each other. Then after that happens the metal of the rod is exposed to the crank journal and it begins Clunking/knocking. That is how the crank and rod end up being all chewed up and scored after a sup bearing.

A bearing usually spins from being WORN so thin that the one half rides up on the other half. Leaving one Half of the bare rod end exposed to the crank with NO bearing in between.

If you don't want to pull the oil pan, try draining your oil into a CLEAN container and inspect it for Copper looking flakes. Silver flakes, chunks of bearing or any other debris.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

I'm afraid to see nuts and bolts and other shit. Not like it matters. I know the motor is toast and I can either have it rebuilt for a crap load of money, or I can buy a built motor for the same cash.

thanks for joining in Jeff. Appreciate it.

 

[Jeff99GS]

Your Engine COULD be fine. One time I had a bad Harmonic dampener. It sounded JUST like a rod knock because the dampener separated and started wobbling which was making a knocking sound.

That is why you have to do some inspecting on your own and narrow down the problem.

If you have Knocking or spun bearings there will be plenty of evidence in your oil. I have gone as far as running my oil through a coffee filter to see what kind of debris was left over in the coffee filter.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Yeah I will check... I had that same thing happen on a jeep once.