Replacing Head, Suggestions? Advice? Insight?

[Generation1JeY]

alright i bent a crap load of valves on my head when my timing jumped. I didnt wanna get a rebuild done so i just bought a used head online that comes with everything except: lifters, rockers, cams, gears, and a valve cover. So all i need to do when it gets here is swap everything from my head onto the working head and then put it on my car. i havent pulled the head off my car yet, but i've prepped almost everything by taking everything thats needs to be taken off off. Just wondering what i'll need to replace and anything i should look out for when i do this? is there anything really hard about swapping the parts from my bent valve head to the working one? just any general insigh u can give me would be nice.

I know i need to replace headbolts, headgasket, valve cover gasket. But is there anything else that would be really good to change whille i'm doin it? i know i gotta redo the timing and i have a fresh timing belt on there so dont worry about that.

 

[4Motion4g63]

EASY UPGRADES
99 model turbo 4g63 lifters in your 1g Allows for better oil supply to lifter
(cure for lifter noise)

Clean casting marks inside head intake and exhaust, Improves flow in and out
Easy to do with a dremel and a good sanding bit (take it easy dont take off to much, BETTER LEFT TO A PRO TO DO A REAL PORTING JOB)

Cut gaskets to match ports on the Intake and exhaust, Remove any extra gasket that over laps the ports.

CHEAK ALL THREDS ON THE HEAD! TWICE! GET NEW HARDWARE

Bonus option (While its all apart)
Remove balance shafts ITS FREE HORSPOWER!

 

[tmizer]

Be careful: Sometimes the valves impact so hard that they can crush the top ring land of a piston or two. That ring then doesn't move and compression can be off on that cylinder or cylinders.

Good luck, measure your compression when done and let us know how everything went.

 

[gurrmanator]

alright i bent a crap load of valves on my head when my timing jumped. I didnt wanna get a rebuild done so i just bought a used head online that comes with everything except: lifters, rockers, cams, gears, and a valve cover. So all i need to do when it gets here is swap everything from my head onto the working head and then put it on my car. i havent pulled the head off my car yet, but i've prepped almost everything by taking everything thats needs to be taken off off. Just wondering what i'll need to replace and anything i should look out for when i do this? is there anything really hard about swapping the parts from my bent valve head to the working one? just any general insigh u can give me would be nice.

I know i need to replace headbolts, headgasket, valve cover gasket. But is there anything else that would be really good to change whille i'm doin it? i know i gotta redo the timing and i have a fresh timing belt on there so dont worry about that.

you will need the gasket between the turbo and exhaust manifold.....take the exhaust manifold and have both surfaces machined flat again.... I usualy change the water pump because everything is already apart but u dont have to... if the water pump goes bad u have to take the whole left side of the motor apart to fix it(timing etc.)is the motor still in the car?forget about that balance shaft crap unless u r doing a complete rebuild...its alot of work,money and time...hope this helps

 

[gurrmanator]

EASY UPGRADES
99 model turbo 4g63 lifters in your 1g Allows for better oil supply to lifter
(cure for lifter noise)

Clean casting marks inside head intake and exhaust, Improves flow in and out
Easy to do with a dremel and a good sanding bit (take it easy dont take off to much, BETTER LEFT TO A PRO TO DO A REAL PORTING JOB)

Cut gaskets to match ports on the Intake and exhaust, Remove any extra gasket that over laps the ports.

CHEAK ALL THREDS ON THE HEAD! TWICE! GET NEW HARDWARE

Bonus option (While its all apart)
Remove balance shafts ITS FREE HORSPOWER!

balance shaft removel kit=$30-$50...machine shop to install the kit(need special tools)$30-$50...where is the"FREE"horsepower?

 

[92redman]

balance shaft removel kit=$30-$50...machine shop to install the kit(need special tools)$30-$50...where is the"FREE"horsepower?

What special tools?? The only thing you really need is the stub shaft and the gaskets for oil filter housing and front cover. Some rtv for oil pan...

 

[Generation1JeY]

the motor is still in the car, i'm not gonna replace the water pump its still in very good condition with only about 5k on it. I'm gonna replace all gaskets: turbo/exhaust manifold/valve cover/ headgasket/intake manifold/throttble body. I'll look into the 3rd gen lifters, if theyre expensive i dunno if i'll mess wit em i dont have lifter tick anymore i fixed that. But do u know a good place to get them cheap? and also how hard is it to put lifters on the head. My new head comes with just valves, retainers, springs and everything assembled, i just gotta put the lifters in, rockers and cams. but how do the lifters go into the head basically? do u just push them in or what i've never done this before. I'll have help i'm just wondering ahead of time how hard they are to setup. thx.

 

[VBGSX]

The lifters are easy. You just drop them in their place. There are holes in the head for them. They slide right in. That's it.
New lifters run from $125-$150 for the set.

 

[eclpsd1]

I would definately do lifters. Either the 99 lifters like 4Motion suggested. Also Slowboy sells revised lifters that also provide more oil to eliminate lifter tick. What else you replace also depends on your goals. If you are planning on upgrading your cams or headgasket at a later time id just do it now while the head is off. Also any other head upgrades ur planning on doing now would be the time. If not you shouldnt need to upgrade valves or springs.

 

[gurrmanator]

What special tools?? The only thing you really need is the stub shaft and the gaskets for oil filter housing and front cover. Some rtv for oil pan...

a kit comes with 2 bearings,one stub shaft,and a rubber plug to block the front balance shaft hole(four pieces)how do you install the bearings?(with a hammer?I think not )the bearings are installed backwards to keep oil preassure because the shafts are not there."ITS A KIT TO REPLACE"have you ever rebuilt an engine?you need a "special tool"to install the bearings.A backyard mechanic does not cut it... dont misslead people...this site is for people with problems looking for honest help not a line of crap.your post should be in newbie section if at all

thanx

 

[92redman]

a kit comes with 2 bearings,one stub shaft,and a rubber plug to block the front balance shaft hole(four pieces)how do you install the bearings?(with a hammer?I think not )the bearings are installed backwards to keep oil preassure because the shafts are not there."ITS A KIT TO REPLACE"have you ever rebuilt an engine?you need a "special tool"to install the bearings.A backyard mechanic does not cut it... dont misslead people...this site is for people with problems looking for honest help not a line of crap.your post should be in newbie section if at all

thanx

WTF are you talking about?? You can leave that shaft in and not do jack squat with the bearings or plug. Even if you do pull that shaft, the bearings can be reused but turned 180 degrees to block the oil holes and the rear(technically left if you rebuild engines) balance shaft works as a special tool to remove/install the bearing. So I still don't understand why you think you need a kit and specail tools. I have done this on 3 engines so far and not used a single special tool, and only wasted my money on the kit once.

 

[gurrmanator]

WTF are you talking about?? You can leave that shaft in and not do jack squat with the bearings or plug. Even if you do pull that shaft, the bearings can be reused but turned 180 degrees to block the oil holes and the rear(technically left if you rebuild engines) balance shaft works as a special tool to remove/install the bearing. So I still don't understand why you think you need a kit and specail tools. I have done this on 3 engines so far and not used a single special tool, and only wasted my money on the kit once.

tell me what a balance shaft does...I have a $4500.00 motor...I want to hear your in put
thanx

 

[92redman]

In a 4cyl, the engine firing pulses are so far apart, the engine makes natural vibrations that are amplified at a certain frequency. From my experience, it is around 3000rpm and the vibration is only noticible in the accelerator pedal. It doesn't hurt your engine to not have them, the vibration is always there you just don't feel it with the balance shafts(they make vibrations that are exactly opposite of the engines).
Chrysler 4cyl engines don't have them with the exception of the 2.4l turbo, and I have never heard anybody complain of the really small vibration. So with that said, they aren't there for the engine, they are their for the bitchy, whiney, everything has to be perfect consumer...

 

[bullettdsm]

Not for nothing but you just bought a used head from someone that you don't know the history about. That head could have overheated or it may have a million miles on it (O.K. maybe not that many but you get the drift ). You've got to check and see if you need to mill it. If you don't want to take it to a shop and have them check it real quick, then get a true straight edge and lay it across the head on edge. Then measure the gap between the edge and the face. I don't know the dimension off-hand but I'm sure that a quick search will give you the tolerances. If you put the head on and it is warped too bad you will just burn a head gasket and have to do it again.
MB

 

[gurrmanator]

In a 4cyl, the engine firing pulses are so far apart, the engine makes natural vibrations that are amplified at a certain frequency. From my experience, it is around 3000rpm and the vibration is only noticible in the accelerator pedal. It doesn't hurt your engine to not have them, the vibration is always there you just don't feel it with the balance shafts(they make vibrations that are exactly opposite of the engines).
Chrysler 4cyl engines don't have them with the exception of the 2.4l turbo, and I have never heard anybody complain of the really small vibration. So with that said, they aren't there for the engine, they are their for the bitchy, whiney, everything has to be perfect consumer...

I see what you are doing....your way will work but its not the correct way.By doing it that way you are causing a hemorrhage in the balance shaft oil journal if you leave that shaft in the block(the motor becomes a time bomb) not recommended for performance applications

 

[zephyr_8]

Errr....... WTF How is it "bad for performance applications"? I understand that you are saying it will leak oil out.... and that you need special tools. But when I did mine, I had no special tools, it was just a pita because I was laying on my back in oil. As far as it hemorraging, I'll take that over having that timing belt in there. My belt snapped and took out my head. I don't really see how leaving the balance shaft in will hurt it though. Although I spun my bearing around and left the shaft on top of it. But anyway this is off topic badly.

Generation1 it depends on what you want outta it. If you just want it back to stock, or the way it was, just replace your gaskets you took off, and go have fun. I don't remember about the head bolts(i have studs) so you'll have to take somebody else's opinion on that. The lifters are simple, they just slide right in. The rockers just lay ontop of the lifters and springs(make sure there lined up right) and the cams ontop of that. Tighten down the cam caps gradualy and jump around so you get even torque. As far as the porting stuff, don't touch it unless you're comfortable with it.

 

[4Motion4g63]

balance shaft removel kit=$30-$50...machine shop to install the kit(need special tools)$30-$50...where is the"FREE"horsepower?

OK its not totally free. Its simple for most people, cheap for the gain and its already built into the motor just waiting to be used! Its just another little mod that improves performance like removing A/C and Cruse control
Any way who just starts pulling stuff apart without KNOWING what there about to Do!
I removed My balance shafts in a friends driveway 3 years ago and bought the parts for under 25 bucks from the local dealership (make a friend in parts ) Ive had no problems at all and i dint worry about sum stupid little belt that could Break and cause
engine failure.

Ps has anyone seen a LS1 In a 1st gen THIS IS INSAINE

 

[gurrmanator]

Errr....... WTF How is it "bad for performance applications"? I understand that you are saying it will leak oil out.... and that you need special tools. But when I did mine, I had no special tools, it was just a pita because I was laying on my back in oil. As far as it hemorraging, I'll take that over having that timing belt in there. My belt snapped and took out my head. I don't really see how leaving the balance shaft in will hurt it though. Although I spun my bearing around and left the shaft on top of it. But anyway this is off topic badly.

Generation1 it depends on what you want outta it. If you just want it back to stock, or the way it was, just replace your gaskets you took off, and go have fun. I don't remember about the head bolts(i have studs) so you'll have to take somebody else's opinion on that. The lifters are simple, they just slide right in. The rockers just lay ontop of the lifters and springs(make sure there lined up right) and the cams ontop of that. Tighten down the cam caps gradualy and jump around so you get even torque. As far as the porting stuff, don't touch it unless you're comfortable with it.

Im sorry;I said nothing about oil leak...nor did I say anything about timing belt.....you will have to read earlier threads on this topic to understand...you are removing the shafts to shave weight...If the shafts are still in the block you didnt shave any weight...any drag racer will know that.

 

[92redman]

.If the shafts are still in the block you didnt shave any weight...any drag racer will know that.

Actually you are still eliminating about 10lbs of rotating mass which is way more benifical performance wise than it is to remove that one 5lb piece of sprung weight.

 

[VBGSX]

Im sorry;I said nothing about oil leak...nor did I say anything about timing belt.....you will have to read earlier threads on this topic to understand...you are removing the shafts to shave weight...If the shafts are still in the block you didnt shave any weight...any drag racer will know that.

By 92redman: "Actually you are still eliminating about 10lbs of rotating mass which is way more benifical performance wise than it is to remove that one 5lb piece of sprung weight."

Not that he needs any help in this topic but he's completely correct.
You're not eliminating the ballance shafts for their weight. You're gaining a little power because your engine isn't wasting power by turning them(drag). Now, the main reason people get rid of them is to protect the engine! The shafts have been known to seize or the belt brakes and takes out the rest of your engine.
Up side to doing it
1. eliminates a possible future problem
2. frees up a little power
3. increases oil pressure
4. , not that you'll feel it but yes it removes a little weight.

 

[gurrmanator]

By 92redman: "Actually you are still eliminating about 10lbs of rotating mass which is way more benifical performance wise than it is to remove that one 5lb piece of sprung weight."

Not that he needs any help in this topic but he's completely correct.
You're not eliminating the ballance shafts for their weight. You're gaining a little power because your engine isn't wasting power by turning them(drag). Now, the main reason people get rid of them is to protect the engine! The shafts have been known to seize or the belt brakes and takes out the rest of your engine.
Up side to doing it
1. eliminates a possible future problem
2. frees up a little power
3. increases oil pressure
4. , not that you'll feel it but yes it removes a little weight.

newbies!!!!

 

[gurrmanator]

By 92redman: "Actually you are still eliminating about 10lbs of rotating mass which is way more benifical performance wise than it is to remove that one 5lb piece of sprung weight."

Not that he needs any help in this topic but he's completely correct.
You're not eliminating the ballance shafts for their weight. You're gaining a little power because your engine isn't wasting power by turning them(drag). Now, the main reason people get rid of them is to protect the engine! The shafts have been known to seize or the belt brakes and takes out the rest of your engine.
Up side to doing it
1. eliminates a possible future problem
2. frees up a little power
3. increases oil pressure
4. , not that you'll feel it but yes it removes a little weight.

protecting the engine?????WHAT???? increases oil pressure????? WHAT????...the only thing"COMPLETELY CORRECT" is"FUTURE PROBLEMS"....see you on the track boys...later

 

[GTM]

protecting the engine?????WHAT???? increases oil pressure????? WHAT????...the only thing"COMPLETELY CORRECT" is"FUTURE PROBLEMS"....see you on the track boys...later

Exactly what part of VBGSX's post are you contesting and assigning "newbies!!!!"?

By removing the balance shafts you block off the oiler to their rear bearings and do gain oil pressure. There is an increase in HP because you don't have their inirtia to accelerate nor maintain in frictional losses. There are reports of them breaking thus can remove this possibility.

The only reason for their existance is to smooth out the inherent vibration of an inline 4 cylr engine of which 2 pistons are up and 2 pistons are down. For some this is important quality in an engine but if you are looking to improve upon HP, acceleration, and gain a nominal increase in fuel consumption they can safely be removed.

The same is true for 6, 8, 10, 12, 16 cylr engines, just to make them smoother so as to not have natural harmonic oscillations.

Hope that helps.
GTM

 

[tsiboy83]

tell me what a balance shaft does...I have a $4500.00 motor...I want to hear your in put

Do you want a cookie to go with that $4500 motor?
He is actually right coming from someone who does it for a living it's very quite easy. spin the bearing. and yes you can use a hammer to put the old bearing back in since it is going to go in a litle easier. (BE VERY CARFULL WITH THE HAMMER, if your not sure of your self don't do it!!) As for the big gapping whole where the balance shaft was you can buy a freeze plug and yes USE A HAMMER to put it in.

so this ones for you

 

[Generation1JeY]

wow this thread has really driven itself off course, we went from me replacing my head to preventative maintinence and removing the balance shafts to how u gain power and reliability from removing them.

anyway i got the head i ordered, its pretty dirty and has some rust in a few places i guess it was on a running car 6 months ago not recently, i only paid 100 bucks for it though so i cant really complain. I have never pulled my head off my car and looked at the valves, but is it ok for exhaust valves to have some rust on them? and can someone tell me the exact procedure to check to see if a head is warped, i know u use a straight edge, but where do u put it? thx