Rebuilt motor almost finished - need input on breaking in car without tune

[illeagle92]

Hi guys! I've been doing some reading and through almost the entire build I've been able to answer my questions by searching... but this one not entirely.

My rebuilt 6 bolt is almost finished (stock bore + hone/polished crank/pressure tested oem head). Last few parts will be arriving tomorrow then if everything goes as planned it'll be going in along with the front mount, sd and fuel system.

The car will be fresh 6 bolt with a composite mitsu hg, arp studs, internally gated td05 20g, oem head with stock cams, 560cc injectors, walbro 255, pr fmic, and v3 with speed density. (There's more but the main stuff is listed).

I know the injectors aren't too much bigger than stock, but I'll have an FPR as well for good measure.

My question in... should I get it towed straight to the tuner and start it up/break it in on the dyno? Or will my stock ecu with a "blank(?)" dsmlink chip be able to get it started? I assume since there aren't any air/fuel numbers plugged in it won't know what to do. Is this correct?

Or can I have my tuner make me a basemap to break it in then get it there to get it tuned?

 

[bryanwheat]

Why don't you dial in the injectors yourself, it is real simple. Or why not just throw the stock injectors back in for a while and run wastegate pressure from the turbo.

 

[92AWDHX40]

I would just take it easy at first and go onto tuning it later.

 

[illeagle92]

I don't have stock injectors. Turns out the tuner is going to come by and get it setup at the shop so I can break it in, then do the full tune on the dyno.

Thanks though guys.

 

[keltalon]

I don't have stock injectors. Turns out the tuner is going to come by and get it setup at the shop so I can break it in, then do the full tune on the dyno.

Thanks though guys.

I would recommend that you buy the cheapest oil the part store has to offer put it in the car and change the oil immediately after the 15 min of idling. I have found that for me , no matter how much I wash the block before assembly, the oil tend to get the stuff the soad and water didn't. Change the oil again after 150 mile and then again after 500 miles and yet again after 1500 miles.. after the 4th oil change your rings would be seated nicely. You are going to hear all kinds of opinions about how to do it but one thing for sure if the break in not done right your engine will not perform to its full potential. Congrats on the new engine build I hope it give you many miles of enjoyment!

 

[livedsm4g63]

Drive it like you stole it.

 

[keltalon]

Drive it like you stole it.

I did that once, read some information on the internet that said "break it in like you are going to drive it" Big mistake! The rings never seated like I wanted them to. True you are going to need to get some boost behind the rings to force them against the cylinder wall , this helps to seat them, but at the same time you will need to keep the rings from glazing the cylinder wall so they can seat. Driving it like you stole it is not the way to do it trust me!

 

[livedsm4g63]

Seems like someone didn't do a good machining job then. The rings seat within the first 10-15 miles. After this process they will continue to further seat however it is not as much.

Every block I built, from dsms to evos, has been broke in this way. A dsm I built has over 50k on it and still drag racing, the evo has over 20k on it and is road raced. Both cars are DD'd.

Do as you wish Im sick of people asking for help and not taking any.

 

[edged1g]

Motoman Method.

This is the best way to break it in, IMO. However, if you don't have injectors and your SD table dialed in you are asking for trouble. Personally, when I broke my engine in, I used stock MAF, FPR and injectors with a 14b turbo running wastegate pressure. It was enough boost to seat the rings properly but not enough to over run the fuel system. And with stock settings in Link I could be sure AFRs would be accurate. Not to lean to cause detonation and not to rich to wash down the walls. Both are bad for a new engine.

I'd recommend grabbing stock injectors and a stock MAF at a minimum for initial start-up. Its all about eliminating variables.

 

[edged1g]

I would recommend that you buy the cheapest oil the part store has to offer put it in the car and change the oil immediately after the 15 min of idling. I have found that for me , no matter how much I wash the block before assembly, the oil tend to get the stuff the soad and water didn't. Change the oil again after 150 mile and then again after 500 miles and yet again after 1500 miles.. after the 4th oil change your rings would be seated nicely. You are going to hear all kinds of opinions about how to do it but one thing for sure if the break in not done right your engine will not perform to its full potential. Congrats on the new engine build I hope it give you many miles of enjoyment!

I really hope the stuff you saw in your oil was just initial wear and not left over from cleaning. There should be anything the oil can get that the cleaning couldn't, especially if you removed all the galley plugs.

I did that once, read some information on the internet that said "break it in like you are going to drive it" Big mistake! The rings never seated like I wanted them to. True you are going to need to get some boost behind the rings to force them against the cylinder wall , this helps to seat them, but at the same time you will need to keep the rings from glazing the cylinder wall so they can seat. Driving it like you stole it is not the way to do it trust me!

Drive it like you stole it I think just means don't baby it. It needs to see the full RPM range as well as boost and VACUUM. That is very important. Dave B. has a post about how they break in motors. Let me see if I can find it.

Edit: Dave B. Break in tips

 

[keltalon]

I really hope the stuff you saw in your oil was just initial wear and not left over from cleaning. There should be anything the oil can get that the cleaning couldn't, especially if you removed all the galley plugs.



Drive it like you stole it I think just means don't baby it. It needs to see the full RPM range as well as boost and VACUUM. That is very important. Dave B. has a post about how they break in motors. Let me see if I can find it.

Okay

I really hope the stuff you saw in your oil was just initial wear and not left over from cleaning. There should be anything the oil can get that the cleaning couldn't, especially if you removed all the galley plugs.



Drive it like you stole it I think just means don't baby it. It needs to see the full RPM range as well as boost and VACUUM. That is very important. Dave B. has a post about how they break in motors. Let me see if I can find it.

Edit: Dave B. Break in tips

Like I said you are going to get a kazillion opinions on how to do it right for me I don't believe in some internet cookie cutter way of dong it, I do it the way described above it works for me. If you take a look at my car on the dyno a few days ago, this engine is almost a year and half old I beat on it constantly 30+ psi. compression 220 across the board checked right before the dyno. check out on this pull how healthy the engine sounds. a big pet peeve of mines is seeing massive smoke after the end of a dyno run reason improperly seated piston rings. I am not talking about smoke from hitting the reve limitor as noted i my video. To each his own when it comes to breakin but for me I do it my way and it works! 728whp@6500rpm healthy engine to say the least! No debris in my engine for sure!

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[Calan]

1. Most important - Have everything ready to go before starting it, and only let it idle long enough for a quick check for leaks. Don't spend a lot of time getting a perfect idle or dialing the timing in. If it idles consistently and everything seems normal, get it on the road.

2. Don't baby it, but don't beat the living crap out of it either. As soon as it's up to operating temp, accelerate at about 3/4 throttle to 5-6k RPM, then lift off the gas and let it engine brake down to 2k or so. Do this at least 8-10 times for a good initial ring seal.

3. After that ^, you can spend some time doing some idle/cruise tuning. fixing minor leaks, etc. A few WOT pulls at mild boost aren't going to hurt anything as long as you have it tuned properly.

4. If you are really anal, you can change the oil and filter immediately after the first drive. Otherwise, change it after 50, 500, and 1000 (or 1500) miles. Use regular cheap dino oil and good filters (NAPA Gold aka Wix). At the last break-in oil change, switch to a good synthetic.

5. Start raising the boost and tuning for power. Enjoy

 

[92AWDHX40]

Many opinions like the internet lots of choices and ideas from others. I break mine in with cheap oil, broke many in .

 

[illeagle92]

Drive it like you stole it I think just means don't baby it. It needs to see the full RPM range as well as boost and VACUUM. That is very important. Dave B. has a post about how they break in motors. Let me see if I can find it.

Edit: Dave B. Break in tips

Thanks for the link. I've read a lot about the Motoman method but I haven't come across this page. I wasn't planning on babying but I won't be redlining it either. I understand (and agree) that the motor need to see pressure, boost, vacuum, and varying rpms... no cruising... all that stuff.

1. Most important - Have everything ready to go before starting it, and only let it idle long enough for a quick check for leaks. Don't spend a lot of time getting a perfect idle or dialing the timing in. If it idles consistently and everything seems normal, get it on the road.

2. Don't baby it, but don't beat the living crap out of it either. As soon as it's up to operating temp, accelerate at about 3/4 throttle to 5-6k RPM, then lift off the gas and let it engine brake down to 2k or so. Do this at least 8-10 times for a good initial ring seal.

3. After that ^, you can spend some time doing some idle/cruise tuning. fixing minor leaks, etc. A few WOT pulls at mild boost aren't going to hurt anything as long as you have it tuned properly.

4. If you are really anal, you can change the oil and filter immediately after the first drive. Otherwise, change it after 50, 500, and 1000 (or 1500) miles. Use regular cheap dino oil and good filters (NAPA Gold aka Wix). At the last break-in oil change, switch to a good synthetic.

5. Start raising the boost and tuning for power. Enjoy

Thanks for this. A couple questions though. When you initially start it to check for leaks, should you change the oil immediately afterwards? Then use the break in oil for the actual driving break-in? (Then change it again after break in or course.)

Also, I keep seeing this dino oil... is this diesel oil? I was going to grab some Brad Penn break-in oil but I dont know if I should use it for start up, change it, and then more for ring seating or use regular oil for start up then the brad penn for the ring seal part of the break in.

My tuner says he'll come down to get the car started, check for leaks, then to put a basemap together so i can get the rings seated. So I have that on my side.

Thank a bunch for all the pointers everyone.

 

[fastfred]

I just broke in mine about a month ago. I used the stock injectors and the 8/9 psi wg spring to control boost. Conventional oil, zinc additive and drove it hard between 2500-6000rpms letting the engine brake it not the brakes. Changed the oil at 50, 250, 750 then went to brad penn 15w40. I never had any shavings at all car runs like a champ. Dino oil means conventional oil, non synshetic.

 

[RamenPride]

Also, I keep seeing this dino oil... is this diesel oil?

dino (as in dinosaur) oil is conventional/non-synthetic) oil

 

[schoony]

I am in the same situation. My 6 bolt is almost complete. I have read some controversial info regarding different methods. This one was my favorite read (http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm). How did it go for you illegal92? I am curious.

 

[dexterholland04]

On a fresh motor, we idle the car for a few minutes to make sure there are no leaks and that everything looks good. We then hold the motor at 4500-5000 rpm for 5 minutes straight. Change oil, go take the car out for a drive and tune the normal drivability portion (10-20 miles or so). Change the oil again, and then turn the boost up and tune WOT. Good to go. We run conventional 10w30 on startup, and during the normal driving portion. Synthetic oil after that for the WOT tuning and the rest of the time.

 

[tmoney20g]

I didn't see any response to this portion, about tuning. I will also be doing an initial break-in like you are, with an un-tuned SD setup. I was told a safe map to load up for some initial break-in driving is the factory 2g tune, found on this page:
http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/v3configs

Also, make sure your firmware is up to date, and you're running the latest versions of everything.

 

[92AWDHX40]

thanks for the link tony breaking mine in untuned for sd for now with my 560s till i get my tune on my 1120s after break in.