quick help with tuning

[GSTspyder98]

i tried to list a thread within the (s-afc settings), but i need help on this asap...
i just finished an install of a

50 trim t3/t4, 650's, 255 fuel pump, fmic, uicp, licp, ported evo manifold, ported o2 housing, 3in dp and exhaust, greddy profec-b, egt and a/f gauge, and of course s-afc...

and since i'm just going to be breaking in the turbo over the next 500 miles i want to get an idea of some real solid initial settings since the afc wasn't working with the 16g, then i'll go to a dyno and tune it on a wideband. thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Blk_99gst]

i just finished an install of a
50 trim t3/t4, 650's, 255 fuel pump, fmic, uicp, licp, ported evo manifold, ported o2 housing, 3in dp and exhaust, greddy profec-b, egt and a/f gauge, and of course s-afc...

Wow. You do know that if you put 1 part on at a time, it's a LOT easier to debug a problem if you recently changed one part. So hopefully you won't have any problems to try and figure out because it could be 1 of the 14 parts you just installed.!

and since i'm just going to be breaking in the turbo over the next 500 miles

Why are you breaking the turbo in over the next 500 miles? Turbos don't need to be "broken in". As long as you run the car without spark when you install the turbo (this gets oil pumping into the turbo before its first start), and as long as the car is at operating temperature, then the turbo is ready to go; no breaking in. If you just installed a clutch (which you didn't list), then I could see taking 500 miles to break that in.

since the afc wasn't working with the 16g

So did you have a 16g on before the 50trim? If so were you using the injectors and safc with the 16g? And if so, were thinking not working well with the 16g?, i.e. safc wasn't set up properly, you were running rich or lean or black smoke was coming out the back?

Because if so, sticking a 50 trim on there with a ton of other mods is not the fix for something that was already broken.

As far as safc settings with 650 injectors, I would say start off with -20% for both the low and high setttings. I REALLY hope you have a pocketlogger to start to tune this with. If so then start with -20% for the lows, and then change them according to sftf and ltft. You'll probably end up around -25% or so. Whatever you end up at, change the hi settings to be what the low's are, and then do some wot runs and log rpm, timing, throttle position, and o2 voltage.

If you don't have a logger, then that's just completely wrong to invest all that money in go fast parts, and then invest no money into any tuning devices (air/fuel does not count, egt, maybe...).

 

[GSTspyder98]

i didn't mean for it to sound as if i did everything at once, i really just put on the new turbo and the larger injectors and that replaced a b16g and stock injectors, and now the afc won't read any airflow so its all fuel and running rich as hell

 

[Blk_99gst]

i didn't mean for it to sound as if i did everything at once, i really just put on the new turbo and the larger injectors and that replaced a b16g and stock injectors, and now the afc won't read any airflow so its all fuel and running rich as hell

Oh, O.K. So when you say the safc isn't reading any airflow, do you mean you don't see any numbers changing for your karmen reading? Wow, if not, I'm surprised the car runs.

I would triple check that you have things wired up properly. Did you tap the correct wires? (Does the rpm, throttle correction register numbers?). Did you cut the airflow wire, so that one end goes into the safc and then the safc wire attaches to the ecu wire. If you triple check that, then make sure the safc settings are correct. Like set for 4 cyclinder, karmen maft, and a few other key ones.

Sounds like you need to get the safc working first before you start thinking about tuning. Did you have the safc on with stock injectors and the big16g? If so was it working back then, all zeroed out?

 

[GSTspyder98]

ok, yeah, it reads the throttle percentage and rpm's and voltage but it doesn't read any airflow. i was driving and trying to tune at the same time with the hi/low throttle settings and it seemed to respond to the changes but the main problem is that i can't rev above 4500 rpm's if i am trying to boost, if i am lightly pushing the gas pedal and keeping boost levels at less than 5 psi than i can rev longer, but i don't get boost, just black smoke out the exhaust, i can't get an appointment at a dyno to tune with a wideband until the 25th, but i wanted to try to at least get a few more pounds of boost out of it and lean it out a little on my own...also how does the dec./air setting work as far as setting it for hi/low since i have a BOV venting to the atmosphere. one last question, i have a greddy profec-b and i don't think its working because the vacuum line on the turbo that goes from the internal wastegate and the compressor is cut so the boost controller can adjust correctly but the factory settings on the wastegate are at 12psi and i don't seem to be able to boost above that or the car with buck hard, i'm just really frustrated at this point i guess

 

[Blk_99gst]

Dude, reading your post, my mouth dropped at how many problems your poor car must be having.

ok, yeah, it reads the throttle percentage and rpm's and voltage but it doesn't read any airflow.

Well there's one of your biggest if not THE BIGGEST problem right there. If you are not seeing the karmen number change, then your safc is wired up incorrectly. If it is wired up incorrectly, then your car is not going to run right. The ecu could not be getting an airflow signal either, since it is to come from the safc. I can't believe your car is driveable is the above statement is true... Unless you just don't have your settings right; if the maf selection is not set to karmen on the safc.

i was driving and trying to tune at the same time with the hi/low throttle settings and it seemed to respond to the changes

What are you trying to tune it with. Do you have a pocketlogger hooked up to your car. Are you logging fuel trims, airflow, timing, ecu o2 voltage. These are things you tune by. Please don't tell me you were using the seat of your pants feeling.
Also, it's pointless to try and tune the safc if it's not getting an airflow signal/karmen signal.

but the main problem is that i can't rev above 4500 rpm's if i am trying to boost, if i am lightly pushing the gas pedal and keeping boost levels at less than 5 psi than i can rev longer, but i don't get boost, just black smoke out the exhaust

You can't rev past 4500. That should tell you that something is severly wrong with the car. Could be that the ecu is not getting an air flow signal, so it won't go into open loop mode which is above 4000 rpm. It could be a ton of things. But the fact that you can't go over 4500 rpm has NOTHING to do with not being tuned properly. It means something is not hooked up properly. If you get black smoke pouring out your exhaust, it could be because the ecu has no idea on how much air is coming in so it's compensating by running rich, then to top it off you have bigger injectors in there, so it's cycling them like it would 450cc injectors. I'm am truely surprised your car even runs...

i can't get an appointment at a dyno to tune with a wideband until the 25th, but i wanted to try to at least get a few more pounds of boost out of it and lean it out a little on my own...

Going to a dyno and putting a wideband on your car would do nothing for the problem of not being able to rev above 4500rpm. Don't even make a dyno appointment. It would be a waste of $60 dollars. You don't need to dyno your car, you need to get it working properly first, get a pocketlogger on there.

also how does the dec./air setting work as far as setting it for hi/low since i have a BOV venting to the atmosphere.

If you have read this board at all, then you know venting your bov with the stock 2g maf is a bad thing. It makes you run rich between shifts, can give you idle problems, etc. And also from reading the board you would know that in no way can the safc conpensate with the dec air function to fix venting a bov. So (a) re-route your bov back into your intake. And (b) find somewhere out on the web what the correct menu settings are for the safc options. I'm at work now and don't have them available; I have them at home though.

I don't want to come off sounding mean in any of the above statement, but you are doing so many things wrong with the car/your setup, and it seems like all you are interested in is turning up the boost, leaning it out, and/or getting to a dyno.

The BEST advice I could give you would be to put the stock injectors back in, and remove the safc. That will give the ecu control over fuel and air again. Then get a tuning tool, like a pocketlogger. Then find some other eclipse guys to help you install the safc. Once it's installed, leave it at "0" to make sure your car is still running correctly. Then read up on how and what to tune. Then when you feel like your ready, put the injectors back in and lean things out with the safc.

 

[GSTspyder98]

its not sounding mean at all, i know how most of the mechanical stuff works on the car but i guess i'm kind of a newbie when it comes to tuning. this is the first time where i've had a car powerful enough to HAVE to tune and another problem is in my area i don't know of any really good DSM shops, and from what i was told when i bought the parts and when they were put on i would have to tune it on a dyno most likely but no one said anything about a pocketlogger and all the problems that i'm facing...i seriously don't know what to do or where to take it to get this thing fixed, i just want it running like it should. so you think that if i but back in the stock injectors and disconnect the s-afc for now i'll run a little smoother until i can get the s-afc re-wired correctly and have the 650's put back on.

 

[Blk_99gst]

its not sounding mean at all, i know how most of the mechanical stuff works on the car but i guess i'm kind of a newbie when it comes to tuning.

Not a problem. We all started out as newbies at one point. But this is a great forum with LOTS of information about tuning and the electrical stuff. You have a lot of help here at your disposal...

this is the first time where i've had a car powerful enough to HAVE to tune and another problem is in my area i don't know of any really good DSM shops,.

I know of a some dsmer's in York, PA; don't know how close that is to you. And I don't know if I would trust a shop too much. They know a little bit about a lot of cars, but not the specifics of a dsm, or tuning a dsm. That's just been my experience. You're better off learning and becoming an expert yourself.

and from what i was told when i bought the parts and when they were put on i would have to tune it on a dyno most likely but no one said anything about a pocketlogger and all the problems that i'm facing...

It all depends on who you get your info from. Sorry if they mis-led you. Here and on other dsm forums is the best place to get info on what you need to run what parts (ie need a pocketlogger to tune a safc).

i seriously don't know what to do or where to take it to get this thing fixed, i just want it running like it should. so you think that if i but back in the stock injectors and disconnect the s-afc for now i'll run a little smoother until i can get the s-afc re-wired correctly and have the 650's put back on.

So who installed your safc for you? Did you do it, or someone else? Was it soldered in or did they use vampire clips? How sure are you that all the wires are hooked up how they should be. There is a chance that you just have a setting wrong in one of the setup menus. I can get that info (setup info) for you when I get home. If I don't post it, then pm me to remind me.

The best thing to do is to hand back over fuel control to the ecu and let it do it's job without trying to trick it with the safc. So that means putting the 450's back in, and setting all the high and low values on the safc to "0". Or worse case taking the safc out if it's not wired up properly.

In the meantime though you should look at getting a pocketlogger to tune with for the future. Read up on here about tuning, and pretty soon it will start clicking for you, and then you won't need to take your car to a dyno or someone else to set it up for you.

 

[GSTspyder98]

thank you very much for all of your help on this, i've spent the past two hours at work looking and reading the threads in tuning talk that affect my situation and you seem to be responding to most of everyones problems in the tuning area making you some sort of guru, haha, anyway, i've learned some tonite and tomorrow and thursday i'll be swapping the injectors and putting the settings back to zero. the afc was installed before i got the car but the shop i had doing it was on the phone with apex checking all the wiring and they told me that there was a problem with the pin in the ecu where the afc and a/f gauge are wired to...they said that it wasn't working on a voltmeter check and when they got it hooked up, they said the a/f gauge should probably wire into the o2 sensor, i just wish i had an awesome import shop around me that does these set ups everyday for real world support besides just that over the internet, as helpful as the internet is though.

about revving my engine, at idle, it really won't let my rev past 4500-5000 when i stomp it, and when i'm driving if i carefully slightly push down the gas keeping the boost under 5psi the engine will rev higher, like close to redline, but then there is no boost, i almost just want to spend the $$$ to get the EMS or DSMlink, but there isn't anywhere around me where i can find pocketlogger info to look at physically, its all order online.

anyway, i'll take a look at this thread a little later, might be tom since my comp at home is acting up, but again, thanks for all your help

-kevin

 

[Blk_99gst]

Here are the settings for the safc, just to make sure it's setup properly:
(These are for a safcI, but should be similar to safcII if that's what you have)
The ETC Menu:
1) Sensor Type: Set this to number 4, Karman
2) Car Select: Set this to 4 Cylinder, throttle arrow point up.
3) Lo TH-Point = 30%
4) Hi TH-Point = 70%

When did your car just start acting like crap. Was it after you put the 650 injectors in? Before you did that, you said you had a big16g in there; was the safc in there too with the stock injectors? Has it been just recently that you can't rev past 4500? Was it after the injector install?

Dsmlink wouldn't solve your problems either. It is a REALLY complicated tuning tool and you could easily mess up your engine if you did something wrong. Let us know how it goes when you put the 450's back in and zero out the safc. You also probably want to reset the ecu after doing the injector swap. If you're not sure how, you can search in here for resetting the ecu.

Also this wiring air/fuel, safc voltage problem worries me. Do you have an air/fuel blinky gauge. When you're driving, does it cycle back and forth between rich and lean? Do you know if your safc is connected to your o2 sensor, i.e. you can see o2 voltage on the safc? If so that's not the greatest thing in the world, and you might want to remove that in the future. But I doubt that's your current problem.

 

[GSTspyder98]

ok, have all the settings as you stated early in you post, thats fine. when i had the big 16g on i had stock injectors and a walbro 255 pump, and i had the afc disconnected because it was acting like it is now, so i was just running off the ecu. the afc read throttle % and rpm's but nothing else. anyway it was running ok but the turbo had started to act up and then there were exhaust leaks from the manifold and turbo housing and boost leaks apparently too because i went from 19psi to 13psi and then finally to 7psi and no matter what i did with the boost controller the turbo didn't respond. i drove for a while last night to really pay attention to what my car was doing through the entire accelerating process. i could rev up past 5000 but my boost would not go above 12-13psi and it wouldn't respond to the boost controller, my question is this seems to be recurrent of the problem i had with the 16g. i think that something isn't connected right with the boost controller and the new t3/t4 because when i talked to extreme psi they said the factory boost setting on the wastegate was set at 12psi and that seems to be what i'm getting...anyway i'm just tired of seeing problem after problem especially when i just spent a lot of money on parts and labor and not seeing results in the car. i'll get the 450's back in today or tomorrow and reset the ecu, which i need to learn how to do. thanks again.

-kevin

 

[GSTspyder98]

ok, i did get some control finally over my fuel system, i kept the 650's in and then i had called Slowboy and one of their tech's (Nathan) helped put some basic settings with my controller until i get a pocketlogger, my hi throttle settings are -15% across and my low throttle settings are -20% across, and it runs real strong, but only at 12psi, i can't boost any higher, i checked the vacuum lines and the power wires and it seems to be fine but the turbo doesn't have any response to the boost controller, it just maxes out at the factory setting on the wastegate which is 12psi, any advice on how to increase boost...?