Quarter Master Clutch - Sneek Peek Prototype design twin-disk!

[maperformance]

Tim,

Just left you a voicemail sir, nice looking clutch I wonder when QM was going to mention this to me?

Chris Carey
763-545-3800

 

[twicks69]

Tim,

Just left you a voicemail sir, nice looking clutch I wonder when QM was going to mention this to me?

Chris Carey
763-545-3800

Chris, I will give you a call tomorrow afternoon and we can talk a bit concerning the clutch.





Update on the car:
*Block is in the process of machinework for custom piston ordering.
*Now have 1350cc fuel injectors, thank you MA Performance!
*Now have my NEW turbo, thank you AGP Turbo! Borg Warner S374 (1.1 A/R T4 divided).



There is still alot to do before the car is ready to run, but it is still sorta on schedule to be ready by April 1 for dyno-tuning. We'll see though, since custom pistons still need to be spec'ed and ordered, along with a laundry list of parts to prep. As well, I am in the process of preparing a couple spare race transmissions for the season. The goal is to get around 900AWHP on the new setup. Anything more than that, and I will be quite happy.

 

[Slippi84]

Chris, I will give you a call tomorrow afternoon and we can talk a bit concerning the clutch.





Update on the car:
*Block is in the process of machinework for custom piston ordering.
*Now have 1350cc fuel injectors, thank you MA Performance!
*Now have my NEW turbo, thank you AGP Turbo! Borg Warner S374 (1.1 A/R T4 divided).



There is still alot to do before the car is ready to run, but it is still sorta on schedule to be ready by April 1 for dyno-tuning. We'll see though, since custom pistons still need to be spec'ed and ordered, along with a laundry list of parts to prep. As well, I am in the process of preparing a couple spare race transmissions for the season. The goal is to get around 900AWHP on the new setup. Anything more than that, and I will be quite happy.

Why not just get a dogbox and call it a day. Even at 900whp I don't see the need for more than one dogbox.

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

Chris, I will give you a call tomorrow afternoon and we can talk a bit concerning the clutch.





Update on the car:
*Block is in the process of machinework for custom piston ordering.
*Now have 1350cc fuel injectors, thank you MA Performance!
*Now have my NEW turbo, thank you AGP Turbo! Borg Warner S374 (1.1 A/R T4 divided).



There is still alot to do before the car is ready to run, but it is still sorta on schedule to be ready by April 1 for dyno-tuning. We'll see though, since custom pistons still need to be spec'ed and ordered, along with a laundry list of parts to prep. As well, I am in the process of preparing a couple spare race transmissions for the season. The goal is to get around 900AWHP on the new setup. Anything more than that, and I will be quite happy.

I think you'll be more than happy.....that turbo is gonna kick some a$$!

 

[twicks69]

Why not just get a dogbox and call it a day. Even at 900whp I don't see the need for more than one dogbox.

Well Sean, I am good at building transmissions, and I have parts available. That is why I am sticking helical 5-speed for right now. I have thrown around the idea of going Auto, or Magnus Dogmission, or Albins Gear Straight Dog gearset. I am also in contact with a few other transmission manufacturers for sequential 5-speed dogbox stuff as well. Unfortunately, the Magnus set is around $5900 for the gearset and add-on's, without the transmission case or front differential. This is the CHEAPEST one on the market. As well, the cost of replacement parts for a standard DSM transmission is substantially less expensive than dogbox stuff -- and much easier to get replacement parts in a quick turn-around.

I like the Dogmission for its price and servicability, but I am wary of the shafts since they are fully splined for each gear, and the design would be potentially weaker when compared to a gearshaft with the gears integrated into the shaft (PPG, Albins, Mitsubishi, Ralliart, etc).

As well, any dogbox will require servicing on a very regular schedule. It doesn't mean it needs rebuilding all the time, but in a street car it will burn out the dog rings and the gear engagement faces faster than if it was only a trailer-queen race car.

In my current situation, I have the ability to build up two spare race transmissions for very minimal money invested. Mainly fresh hub and sliders, synchros and center diff machinework would be required to prep them.

I will continue to look into an alternative transmission design, but currently I am sticking with what I have in my hands -- Helical 5-speed transmissions.

As well Sean, I have been funding this car for the last 7 years on my own budget -- this is the first time I have received any sort of Sponsorship (help from Beyond Redline, and the clutch design from Quarter Master), and I am looking for more help as the goal is to run into the 8's this year on a street car setup. If it does really well, then I will go from there.

The goals is high 8's, 900AWHP+, along with hitting a couple races this year and the potential to run at DSM Shootout later on this year.


I have been fortunate enough to meet alot of good people along the way over the years and have learned from their experiences and advice, but have been mainly doing this for myself as I have done nearly everything on my own over the years. If I am going to continue competitively in this sport, I will need to get some help from others financially as it is extremely expensive for just the upkeep of a vehicle of this power level.

I will keep everyone in the loop concerning the clutch and the time frame on the Eclipse.

Thanks!

 

[1fastlaser]

Yo Twicks, that for the heads up on my "ptt splines gone bad". It sucks you cant run the QM disk in a PTT. I know i could always switch out, and sell the PTT.

Im in the same dilemma with the transmission situation. My build is also a street car. I figured I should get a straight cut gear set of some sort, but I plan on enjoying the car, drive it to work on nice days, and drive it all over sometimes 100 miles at a time, race it and drive home. I think im going to stay with syncro transmissions also, and just have a spare ready.

Its funny you went with 1350cc injectors, as i was looking into them also. It seems they could handle enough hp (900-1000), with a proper fuel system setup. Are you staying with your dual pump setup?

 

[Slippi84]

I figured it was due to wanting to keep the car more streetable. This is the first I'm hearing of any factor in a straight cut trans being weaker than a syncro setup trans. I'm not planning on driving my car everyday so the choice was pretty easy to just save up and when it's time get dogboxracing to rig me up a straight cut gear trans.

Anyway to get back to the clutch setup there is actually a big thread on the link comparing the QM and PTT clutches. From reading everything everyone had to say neither is the be all end all clutch that I figured they would be considering a regular act2600 seems to work for 90% of people and this clutch is a good aomunt more and designed much better. Hopefully this disk design moves as fast as it did for you with all of us in the near future.

 

[1fastlaser]

I figured it was due to wanting to keep the car more streetable. This is the first I'm hearing of any factor in a straight cut trans being weaker than a syncro setup trans. I'm not planning on driving my car everyday so the choice was pretty easy to just save up and when it's time get dogboxracing to rig me up a straight cut gear trans.

Anyway to get back to the clutch setup there is actually a big thread on the link comparing the QM and PTT clutches. From reading everything everyone had to say neither is the be all end all clutch that I figured they would be considering a regular act2600 seems to work for 90% of people and this clutch is a good aomunt more and designed much better. Hopefully this disk design moves as fast as it did for you with all of us in the near future.

Sean, dogbox's "dogbox isnt a straight cut gear set. There acually a factory helical gear set/hub and sliders machined into a dog engagement. One thing also is, i seen a destroyed helical cut dogboxracing gear, and the dogs on the gear were very new looking with 0 wear. Not that there weaker at all, but there will always be a weak link. Ive read of some guys blowing apart a magnus "PAR" gearset because of bad heat treating etc.

I prob will still pick up a straight cut, you can only live and learn.

 

[twicks69]

Yo Twicks, thanks for the heads up on my "ptt splines gone bad". It sucks you cant run the QM disk in a PTT. I know i could always switch out, and sell the PTT.

Yeah, I didn't know that the PTT disks for our application are only 0.200" thick vs. the 0.250" thick of the Quarter Master 7.25" Rally friction disks. This thickness difference would make sense as the PowerTrain Technology clutch assembly is around 0.375" shorter in overall-clutch pack height -- which is one of their selling points that the company makes. Because of their reduced thickness of clutch disks and floaters, they are able to reduce the Moment of Inertia of their clutch by up to 20% over their competitors. The downfall of this would be heat transfer, and overall clutch life before requiring servicing. This would also make sense as it can then clear the stock clutch fork without grinding (which is really no big deal, and won't weaken the clutch fork too much to become an issue if you use a 2G clutch fork). PTT shows your disks as having a new thickness of 0.200" and a replacement thickness of 0.185" per disk. Are you running the metallic or the organic disks with your application? Did you measure the stock thickness of the floater and the pressure plate floater before install?

I have been reading up on their parts and it is interesting that the organic disks DO actually have a HIGHER torque capacity than the metal disks. Does it suprise me? Not really, since they are just using a higher coefficient of friction material in the organic disk, but the disk is more succeptable to heat and the coefficient of friction (and torque capacity) will reduce when the friction material temperature increases, thus recommending the metallic disks as they have a more stable coefficient of friction as temperature increases.

Are you using the PTT throwout bearing with your clutch unit or the Mitsubishi TOB? Which slave cylinder are you running? I am running the Mitsubishi TOB and 2G slave cylinder without problems, and do not have an aftermarket pedal stop in place.

When you stripped the splines off your disks, did you ever measure the overall thickness of the disks and floaters to measure amount of wear? It would be interesting to see what you have for numbers and any notes on wear characteristics. As well, did your clutch harmonics and chatter reduce after a bit of mileage (500-1500miles)? Are you running an aftermarket crank pulley (ATI, Fluidampr, etc.)?

Im in the same dilemma with the transmission situation. My build is also a street car. I figured I should get a straight cut gear set of some sort, but I plan on enjoying the car, drive it to work on nice days, and drive it all over sometimes 100 miles at a time, race it and drive home. I think im going to stay with syncro transmissions also, and just have a spare ready.

Yeah, I would love to run a straight cut gearset, but I really don't have $5K+ sitting around, so I will just stick with my stocko-helicals for now.

Its funny you went with 1350cc injectors, as i was looking into them also. It seems they could handle enough hp (900-1000), with a proper fuel system setup. Are you staying with your dual pump setup?

Yeah, I am just increasing the injectors from 1000cc to 1350cc and sticking with the same fuel (VP Q16). I will find out the limits of the setup, but I think it should be capable of reaching my HP goals with the injector upgrade at this time.

This is the first I'm hearing of any factor in a straight cut trans being weaker than a syncro setup trans. I'm not planning on driving my car everyday so the choice was pretty easy to just save up and when it's time get dogboxracing to rig me up a straight cut gear trans.

Sean, I never said that the standard helical gear/synchro transmission is stronger than a straight-cut dog-ring transmission. I stated I am staying with the helical because I have spares, thus reducing the amount of money I need to spend on transmission parts or gearsets. Straight-cut dog-ring gearsets will still wear and require maintenence; they are stronger than helical gears in our circumstance but are not unbreakable. As well, the engagement dogs will wear down over time and require gear replacement and/or hub/slider replacement. It is just a fact of life. The overall initial cost is much higher for the dogbox, and the replacement parts are more expensive. The key difference would be how many helical transmissions I would be going through vs. the lifespan of one dogbox.

Anyway to get back to the clutch setup there is actually a big thread on the link comparing the QM and PTT clutches. From reading everything everyone had to say neither is the be all end all clutch that I figured they would be considering a regular act2600 seems to work for 90% of people and this clutch is a good aomunt more and designed much better. Hopefully this disk design moves as fast as it did for you with all of us in the near future.

The Quarter Master and PowerTrain Technology clutches are excellent for low pedal-pressure, reducing crank thrust bearing wear and transmission synchro wear. This is a key benefit of a low-pressure multi-disk clutch when being compared to a 2600# or 2900# pressure plate. The multi-disk clutch assembly will also have a substantially lower Moment of Inertia (MOI), which will make it more capable of shifting much faster than a larger-diameter single-disk clutch. The multi-disk clutch will also have a higher overall torque capacity, and will be better at heat dissipation due to the increased surface area of a multi-disk assembly. These clutches also have the benefit of being fully servicable and can be custom tailored to your application and driving characteristics.

I would recommend a multi-disk clutch with a low pedal pressure for anyone running a modified car. A single-disk street disk is good, but there are limits, and there are downfalls in the design. The benefit of a single-disk street disk is the cost, and ease of clutch engagement using a large diameter clutch disk and high coefficient of friction found with an organic material or kevlar disk. The key problem is heat transfer and torque capacity, and the organic disk will quickly burnout. The kevlar disk will be more capable of handling a wider range of temperatures, but will still be limited by a torque capacity. In a single-disk configuration, (ACT, etc.) the only way you can increase torque capacity without changing the disk would be to replace the pressure plate with a higher capacity unit, thus increasing thrust bearing load on the crank. With a multi-disk assembly, the clutch cover design can be changed, adjusting the pivot point while retaining the pressure plate spring pressure OR you can increase or decrease the pressure plate spring, to produce a clutch that can handle your torque capacity while minimizing clutch wear and thrust bearing wear.

The downfall of the multi-disk clutch is cost, and streetability tradeoffs. You cannot have the best of ALL worlds.

 

[Slippi84]

Sean, dogbox's "dogbox isnt a straight cut gear set. There acually a factory helical gear set/hub and sliders machined into a dog engagement. One thing also is, i seen a destroyed helical cut dogboxracing gear, and the dogs on the gear were very new looking with 0 wear. Not that there weaker at all, but there will always be a weak link. Ive read of some guys blowing apart a magnus "PAR" gearset because of bad heat treating etc.

I prob will still pick up a straight cut, you can only live and learn.

Well that would explain how alex can sell them for like 2k less. Would that make them a little more streetable or would a trans setup like that be in the same boat?



[/QUOTE]I like the Dogmission for its price and servicability, but I am wary of the shafts since they are fully splined for each gear, and the design would be potentially weaker when compared to a gearshaft with the gears integrated into the shaft (PPG, Albins, Mitsubishi, Ralliart, etc).[/QUOTE]

This is what I was reffering. I took this as you were saying the actual shafts design was weaker.

 

[twicks69]

Well that would explain how alex can sell them for like 2k less. Would that make them a little more streetable or would a trans setup like that be in the same boat?

I like the Dogmission for its price and servicability, but I am wary of the shafts since they are fully splined for each gear, and the design would be potentially weaker when compared to a gearshaft with the gears integrated into the shaft (PPG, Albins, Mitsubishi, Ralliart, etc).[/QUOTE]

This is what I was reffering. I took this as you were saying the actual shafts design was weaker.[/QUOTE]

When looking at the shaft design between the Magnus intermediate shaft and the PPG/Albins, I was referring to the Magnus being a weaker overall design because of the following:
*PPG/Albins (along with Mitsubishi, Ralliart, etc) utilize an intermediate shaft that the 3rd and 4th gears are integrated into the shaft as one piece.
*The Magnus intermediate shaft utilizes a splined shaft that the drive gears are installed onto the splines -- they do this for the ability to easily interchange 3rd and 4th gear ratios, along with being able to only replace the gear or the shaft if there is damage.

Because of the splined design (it is still beefy as hell), it gives it a potential for failure when compared to a shaft where the gear is machined and part of the actual shaft. Both still have the tendency to fail, but a fixed shaft would likely be capable of withstanding more without failure if the gear face, pitch and gear root structure remained the same.

Both gearsets have their benefits, and both styles are great units that can withstand ALOT of torque.

If I had money burning a hole in my pocket, I would pick up a straight-cut gear dog-ring engagement gearset in a heartbeat. Especially a sequential 5-speed dogbox....but that is a bit more cash.

 

[Slippi84]

I like the Dogmission for its price and servicability, but I am wary of the shafts since they are fully splined for each gear, and the design would be potentially weaker when compared to a gearshaft with the gears integrated into the shaft (PPG, Albins, Mitsubishi, Ralliart, etc).

This is what I was reffering. I took this as you were saying the actual shafts design was weaker.[/QUOTE]

When looking at the shaft design between the Magnus intermediate shaft and the PPG/Albins, I was referring to the Magnus being a weaker overall design because of the following:
*PPG/Albins (along with Mitsubishi, Ralliart, etc) utilize an intermediate shaft that the 3rd and 4th gears are integrated into the shaft as one piece.
*The Magnus intermediate shaft utilizes a splined shaft that the drive gears are installed onto the splines -- they do this for the ability to easily interchange 3rd and 4th gear ratios, along with being able to only replace the gear or the shaft if there is damage.

Because of the splined design (it is still beefy as hell), it gives it a potential for failure when compared to a shaft where the gear is machined and part of the actual shaft. Both still have the tendency to fail, but a fixed shaft would likely be capable of withstanding more without failure if the gear face, pitch and gear root structure remained the same.

Both gearsets have their benefits, and both styles are great units that can withstand ALOT of torque.

If I had money burning a hole in my pocket, I would pick up a straight-cut gear dog-ring engagement gearset in a heartbeat. Especially a sequential 5-speed dogbox....but that is a bit more cash.[/QUOTE]


I hear you on that man. I have a list of stuff to still get and a built trans is on the list but its' hard to justify that kinda cash when there are so many other things out there to get. But you gotta pay to play you know that just as well as anyone.

 

[1fastlaser]

Yeah, I didn't know that the PTT disks for our application are only 0.200" thick vs. the 0.250" thick of the Quarter Master 7.25" Rally friction disks. This thickness difference would make sense as the PowerTrain Technology clutch assembly is around 0.375" shorter in overall-clutch pack height -- which is one of their selling points that the company makes. Because of their reduced thickness of clutch disks and floaters, they are able to reduce the Moment of Inertia of their clutch by up to 20% over their competitors. The downfall of this would be heat transfer, and overall clutch life before requiring servicing. This would also make sense as it can then clear the stock clutch fork without grinding (which is really no big deal, and won't weaken the clutch fork too much to become an issue if you use a 2G clutch fork). PTT shows your disks as having a new thickness of 0.200" and a replacement thickness of 0.185" per disk. Are you running the metallic or the organic disks with your application? Did you measure the stock thickness of the floater and the pressure plate floater before install?

I have been reading up on their parts and it is interesting that the organic disks DO actually have a HIGHER torque capacity than the metal disks. Does it suprise me? Not really, since they are just using a higher coefficient of friction material in the organic disk, but the disk is more succeptable to heat and the coefficient of friction (and torque capacity) will reduce when the friction material temperature increases, thus recommending the metallic disks as they have a more stable coefficient of friction as temperature increases.

Are you using the PTT throwout bearing with your clutch unit or the Mitsubishi TOB? Which slave cylinder are you running? I am running the Mitsubishi TOB and 2G slave cylinder without problems, and do not have an aftermarket pedal stop in place.

When you stripped the splines off your disks, did you ever measure the overall thickness of the disks and floaters to measure amount of wear? It would be interesting to see what you have for numbers and any notes on wear characteristics. As well, did your clutch harmonics and chatter reduce after a bit of mileage (500-1500miles)? Are you running an aftermarket crank pulley (ATI, Fluidampr, etc.)?.

Sorry no measurements for you yet. The trans i have in the car now was put in over winter to be able to move the car around (stock as a rock). Ill be pulling the trans out once the gt42 setup is completly ready, and putting in some kind of trans , so ill get some measurements soon enough. I put about 1000 1500k on the new disk, and about 8 passes so ill make sure to get some for you.

Yes im running the conical bearing that the ptt comes with, and yes im running a fluidamper crank pully. Motors a g4cs 2.4 eagle/wiesco combo for now. Im going to see how far she will go, not taking it toooo far but seeing what i can do safely for now. Hopefully a rod dosent come out and hit me in the teeth.

 

[twicks69]

Sorry no measurements for you yet. The trans i have in the car now was put in over winter to be able to move the car around (stock as a rock). Ill be pulling the trans out once the gt42 setup is completly ready, and putting in some kind of trans , so ill get some measurements soon enough. I put about 1000 1500k on the new disk, and about 8 passes so ill make sure to get some for you.

Yes im running the conical bearing that the ptt comes with, and yes im running a fluidamper crank pully. Motors a g4cs 2.4 eagle/wiesco combo for now. Im going to see how far she will go, not taking it toooo far but seeing what i can do safely for now. Hopefully a rod dosent come out and hit me in the teeth.

Thanks for the info, and good luck with the car. Yeah, whenever you get around to posting up the wear thickness information of the disks and floaters is fine. It is just for reference anyways. Photos are also a nice touch!

With your 2.4L, what specific Fluidampr are you using? What is the part number? The reason I am asking, is that I am in another thread right now with two different part numbers being listed for the DSM 4G63 crank pulley. I also thought that Fluidampr specifically manufactured a crank damper for the 4G64 100mm crank, so it would be interesting to see what you are using.

How was the clutch harmonics with the Fluidampr installed? Did you ever run the same setup with the stock crank damper for comparison of harmonics?

Thanks!

 

[amg_dragon]

Holy Chef Boyardee that's BEEFY! I don't need a multi plate yet but I'd like one when my car grows up. I was researching the pro/cons to one and I think you summed it up best. When I get to that point I will be supporting QM simply based on this thread. It's incredible that they gave a prototype to a non-sponsored (or are you now?) car. I look forward to seeing what you do this year. Keep real street cars alive!

 

[twicks69]

Holy Chef Boyardee that's BEEFY! I don't need a multi plate yet but I'd like one when my car grows up. I was researching the pro/cons to one and I think you summed it up best. When I get to that point I will be supporting QM simply based on this thread. It's incredible that they gave a prototype to a non-sponsored (or are you now?) car. I look forward to seeing what you do this year. Keep real street cars alive!

Thanks for the kind words and your support! You know, I don't know what I would call them, I hope this would be considered a Sponsorship as they gave me a free clutch to test and to run for the season.

Personally, I was shocked that they would even consider me as I am not a professional race car, and that is what they normally sponsor. Maybe they saw that I had a little potential and gave me a chance. Either way, I can tell you that so far, the experience has been excellent, and the service I have received from the President of Quarter Master has been the best I have had with a manufacturer for parts for our vehicles.

I would like to consider and to have them as a sponsor for my car, and will be affixing their company logos on my car either way! Great company and great service!

 

[1fastlaser]

Thanks for the info, and good luck with the car. Yeah, whenever you get around to posting up the wear thickness information of the disks and floaters is fine. It is just for reference anyways. Photos are also a nice touch!

With your 2.4L, what specific Fluidampr are you using? What is the part number? The reason I am asking, is that I am in another thread right now with two different part numbers being listed for the DSM 4G63 crank pulley. I also thought that Fluidampr specifically manufactured a crank damper for the 4G64 100mm crank, so it would be interesting to see what you are using.

How was the clutch harmonics with the Fluidampr installed? Did you ever run the same setup with the stock crank damper for comparison of harmonics?

Thanks!

Im running the 90-99 eclipse Fluidampr. FDR-630701 im going to say. I got it from Extremepsi. I have to find the box. After my first 100mm crank broke with 8 or 9k on the motor the car sat for a year, and i learned alot more. I had the new crank/act 2600/ factory 2.0 crank pulley balanced all together. Its amazing how the had to drill 2-3 balance holes directly across from the factory balance holes, i could only imaging the off balance i had there (for all this guys building 2.3s 2.4s with factory pulleys GET IT BALANCED ALL TOGETHER!)

I bought the Fluidampr 200 miles on the new motor, definatly feel a difference in harmonics. Typically right around 3k i would get alittle vibration peak, it toned it down alittle. Once i put the PTT in it got rid of all the vibration i had right around 3k.

I just remembered i have 2 metallic disk setup for a evo input shaft (dogbox) with about 700 miles and 5-6 passes on them. Ill mic them and put up my findings, and then do the ones in my car, and floaters when i get the trans out.

Thats great Tim, they probably want someone knowlegable that acually drives there car on the street, and puts it though its paces. Gotta keep the street cars alive!

 

[twicks69]

Im running the 90-99 eclipse Fluidampr. FDR-630701 im going to say. I got it from Extremepsi. I have to find the box. After my first 100mm crank broke with 8 or 9k on the motor the car sat for a year, and i learned alot more. I had the new crank/act 2600/ factory 2.0 crank pulley balanced all together. Its amazing how the had to drill 2-3 balance holes directly across from the factory balance holes, i could only imaging the off balance i had there (for all this guys building 2.3s 2.4s with factory pulleys GET IT BALANCED ALL TOGETHER!)

I bought the Fluidampr 200 miles on the new motor, definatly feel a difference in harmonics. Typically right around 3k i would get alittle vibration peak, it toned it down alittle. Once i put the PTT in it got rid of all the vibration i had right around 3k.

I just remembered i have 2 metallic disk setup for a evo input shaft (dogbox) with about 700 miles and 5-6 passes on them. Ill mic them and put up my findings, and then do the ones in my car, and floaters when i get the trans out.

Thats great Tim, they probably want someone knowlegable that acually drives there car on the street, and puts it though its paces. Gotta keep the street cars alive!

Thanks for checking on the Fluidampr, now I have two part numbers that are being used on our cars -- I will need to contact them and see specifically the details per pulley and will post the specs for each one.

Ok, you are running the 1" 23-spline disks. Were these the ones you sheared off the hubs on, or was it on the 7/8" 20-spline disks with the standard DSM input shaft?

If it was on the Evo 1" 23-spline disks, did it end up damaging your Evo input shaft on the dogbox? Either way, whichever shaft you had; the DSM 7/8" 20-spline or the 1" 23-spline Evo shaft; if you reused the input shaft, did you check it for runout or damage before reinstallation?

Also, if it was the Evo 1" 23-spline hubs you sheared the splines off of, could you take a picture of them if you still have them? How did the rest of the hub and disk look (other than the splines missing)? Heat buildup, bluing of the disks, uneven wear? How did you shear the splines off? Was it on the dyno under load? Street under load? Track under load? I am guessing 3rd gear is when it happened....

Thanks!

 

[1fastlaser]

Thanks for checking on the Fluidampr, now I have two part numbers that are being used on our cars -- I will need to contact them and see specifically the details per pulley and will post the specs for each one.

Ok, you are running the 1" 23-spline disks. Were these the ones you sheared off the hubs on, or was it on the 7/8" 20-spline disks with the standard DSM input shaft?

If it was on the Evo 1" 23-spline disks, did it end up damaging your Evo input shaft on the dogbox? Either way, whichever shaft you had; the DSM 7/8" 20-spline or the 1" 23-spline Evo shaft; if you reused the input shaft, did you check it for runout or damage before reinstallation?

Also, if it was the Evo 1" 23-spline hubs you sheared the splines off of, could you take a picture of them if you still have them? How did the rest of the hub and disk look (other than the splines missing)? Heat buildup, bluing of the disks, uneven wear? How did you shear the splines off? Was it on the dyno under load? Street under load? Track under load? I am guessing 3rd gear is when it happened....

Thanks!

The evo disk i have came with the clutch that i bought off a fellow member here (tony from extremepsi) I put the standard dsm input shaft "7/8" disk in it, and saved the evo disk for later. Now that you bring it up i do still have my disk that got screwed up at work. I will get some measurements/ pictures of them too.

As for when it happen, i was acually driving to my GF's house, and came off the highway to a stop sign. Came off the stop sign and layed into it 1-2-3 pull. Came up to a light and pushed in the clutch and heard an weird sound, instantly know it was the clutch. Got it to my GF's and pulled the trans out, the first disk teeth were all gone, second one was on its way.

 

[1fastlaser]

Ok ive been alittle sick, but i measured the disk i destroyed the hub on, and they were 0.197". Ill get the evo input shaft disk measurements tonight, and some pictures.

 

[1fastlaser]

Ok i got some pictures and measurements of the ptt disk that i destroyed the hubs on, and the evo disk.

Measurements

0.197" the broken hub disk, maybe 4-5 passes, 2000 miles.
0.188" evo hub assembly, on a 600-700hp, not sure on the mileage exactly but i know there was some hard passes on it. Any more pictures let me know

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[twicks69]

Thanks for the photos and details!

The Evo disk is pretty much on its last bit of life if it is reused. The factory specification for minimum thickness before replacement is 0.185" for the PTT disk. As you know, the initial thickness is 0.200".

Have you had your clutch cover serviced or inspected by PTT yet? If there is any wear on the diaphram spring, it may be worth having checked out and replaced.

 

[1fastlaser]

Yeah ill prob send it out, and do that when i pull the trans from the car. Ill also get the measurements from the disk in the car, and the floaters. So since the QM disk are 0.250" do they have the same service requirements as ptt of 0.185" or are they different? Whats the typical service cost?

 

[twicks69]

Yeah ill prob send it out, and do that when i pull the trans from the car. Ill also get the measurements from the disk in the car, and the floaters. So since the QM disk are 0.250" do they have the same service requirements as ptt of 0.185" or are they different? Whats the typical service cost?

I do not have the service cost information, you will need to contact Quarter Master for that. Their websites are Welcome! , and/or :: Quarter Master :: Home. I will measure the minimum thickness of the 0.250" thick disks and will post up that information, along with the floater thickness.

The floaters are 0.180" when new, and I do know that the minimum thickness of the floater is 0.177" with a maximum allowable warpage of 0.006".

As for rebuild parts, I am not sure what they charge from Quarter Master, but I do know that their prices are competitive through their vendors, and prices are similar across the board.

I did find a few different prices out there for replacement part pricing of their product though. This is the prices from a few different vendors in average.

Replacement Clutch cover costs ~$200
Replacement Fulcrum disk costs ~$60
Replacement Floater disk costs ~$70
Replacement Bolt kit costs ~$12

Replacement Clutch disk 2-pack ~$130 (NOTE* this price is based on 2-disk setups for domestic applications that normally use the .200" or .100"-thick disks; NOT the Rally disks that we use which are 0.250" thick, so prices will definitely vary from the price that I found).

I will post up when I have more information.

 

[Team Addiction]

Woohoo I can post here now too

Thanks for all the help TIM!!

Just drove my first QM Twin setup. Not the one Tim is testing obviously. Im running the Maperformance flywheel with QM-v-drive 7.25.
Not near as bad as some of the reviews Ive heard little grabby but I seemed to be doing fairly well within 5-10 mins.
I like it even if theres a bit of chatter