Putting Nitrous on. Is this safe for a 4g63?????

[knighteclipse1]

I've always been under the assumption that a 2G 4G63 could only handle about 400hp, safely. Or is the upgrade paths section wrong on this site?

 

[GVR4592]

I've seen 450whp stock bottom end 2g's. Look around they are out there.

 

[Generation X]

I've always been under the assumption that a 2G 4G63 could only handle about 400hp, safely. Or is the upgrade paths section wrong on this site?

That's correct if your thinking WHP.

I'm making over 400 crank horsepower with my current set up on spray with no problems.

 

[knighteclipse1]

But is it safe to run it at that? I'm only asking out of the real desire to know. Because my plans were only 375 to 400whp. But if its capable of more "safely" then I'm interested. Nitrous has been something that I've been looking into as well.

 

[knighteclipse1]

That's correct if your thinking WHP.

I'm making over 400 crank horsepower with my current set up on spray with no problems.

o.k., but he was talking about 450whp. Last thing I need is to buy a new engine.

 

[DGajre777]

I have never seen a dyno sheet for a stock 2G engine running 450whp. I say 400whp is about the limit if you don't want to risk stuff blowing up. If you don't care about blowing a headgasket or other parts, sure try for 450whp.

And guess what...
Our Dyno List is down for maintenance. Sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[knighteclipse1]

Thats what I thought, thanks for clearing that up DGajre777. Maybe you can answer me this, I am next week having HKS 272, ARP headstuds and a EVOIII headgasket installed. Will this make it possible for the engine to handle anymore whp then what we have established is 400whp? Or will I have to go into the bottom end of the engine?

 

[DGajre777]

The ARP studs and headgasket are just there to secure the engine. You will be able to run more boost, but I don't know how much. It depends on your turbo, your setup and the condition of your engine (compression, leaking oil, maintenance issues etc).

Some info here http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193907
and another one here http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181069

I don't know which "kid" is mentioned in post number 2 in this link http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221553 but if you blow your engine to see how much whp it can handle (like the kid in the link above), let us know. There are many people who say that it depends on tuning. It is funny how you always hear about the typical "my buddy is running xxxwhp", but you never see a dyno sheet or a mods list for these cars. Here's one - I call it "The Guy" - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210437

 

[Generation X]

But is it safe to run it at that? I'm only asking out of the real desire to know. Because my plans were only 375 to 400whp. But if its capable of more "safely" then I'm interested. Nitrous has been something that I've been looking into as well.

That all depends on how you treat the car I guess bro. If your beating on it left and right then no it probably won't last long at those power levels, but if treated right it will reward you with a big shit eating grin.

 

[knighteclipse1]

The turbo I am planning on is the EVOIII 16GT from turbochargers.com. I just wanted to get a few of the other mod's out of the way prior to getting in it (ARP headstuds, cams, headgasket, etc.) I was planning on about 325 whp with that,but nitrous to get me close to 400whp or there abouts would be nice. I am building my car in stages so I can pick my parts wisely. Any suggestions would be appreciated from those who have gone before me.

 

[DGajre777]

The turbo I am planning on is the EVOIII 16GT from turbochargers.com. I just wanted to get a few of the other mod's out of the way prior to getting in it (ARP headstuds, cams, headgasket, etc.) I was planning on about 325 whp with that,but nitrous to get me close to 400whp or there abouts would be nice. I am building my car in stages so I can pick my parts wisely. Any suggestions would be appreciated from those who have gone before me.

I have not gone before you but... I had plans to do the same thing you plan on doing.

Is there a reason why you want to use nitrous on a turbo that will be out of its efficieny range? The max hp for the turbo is about 330WHP (maybe a few more). Put a 50 shot nitrous on it, the turbo will spin a lot faster than what it is designed to spin and all it will push out is hot air. If you want close to 400whp, get a bigger turbo.

 

[GVR4592]

Are any of you guys on the dsmlink forums?

 

[knighteclipse1]

The reason I was asking is because I am alittle ignorant when it comes to Nitrous. I didn't realize that it wasn't possible to make up the difference in hp using the 16G. I guess I should rethink the route I was planning on. Thank you for the information. And no I am not on the dsmlink forum.

 

[DGajre777]

I'm not in the DSMlink Forum either. GVR4592 - I'm not trying to prove that you are wrong, if you do know of any 2Gs running 450whp on stock engines, please post some info about their dyno sheets and mods.

The reason I was asking is because I am alittle ignorant when it comes to Nitrous. I didn't realize that it wasn't possible to make up the difference in hp using the 16G. I guess I should rethink the route I was planning on. Thank you for the information. And no I am not on the dsmlink forum.

You could make up for the difference using nitrous, but using nitrous will cause the turbo to spin at such high RPMs and it won't last very long. One option is to use an external wastegate, but I found out that external wastegates are slow to open, so the turbo will still overspin before the gate opens. Obviously you'll need fuel mods for 400whp too. Here is a thread I started about using a T28 with nitrous compared to the EVO III without nitrous, it is the same theory as using the evoIII with nitrous to make as much power as a 50trim or bigger turbo - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222189. After realizing my power goals, I decided to finally go with a FP Green, expensive as hell, but I don't feel like upgrading turbos over and over again. I know there are cheaper versions of it, but I haven't heard about any good quality 50 trim turbo except the Green.

And since what we are discussing is not what the original poster asked for, maybe we should start a new thread, just a thought. Unless, the original poster doesn't mind ofcourse.

 

[Generation X]

I'm not in the DSMlink Forum either. GVR4592 - I'm not trying to prove that you are wrong, if you do know of any 2Gs running 450whp on stock engines, please post some info about their dyno sheets and mods.



You could make up for the difference using nitrous, but using nitrous will cause the turbo to spin at such high RPMs and it won't last very long. One option is to use an external wastegate, but I found out that external wastegates are slow to open, so the turbo will still overspin before the gate opens. Obviously you'll need fuel mods for 400whp too. Here is a thread I started about using a T28 with nitrous compared to the EVO III without nitrous, it is the same theory as using the evoIII with nitrous to make as much power as a 50trim or bigger turbo - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222189. After realizing my power goals, I decided to finally go with a FP Green, expensive as hell, but I don't feel like upgrading turbos over and over again. I know there are cheaper versions of it, but I haven't heard about any good quality 50 trim turbo except the Green.

And since what we are discussing is not what the original poster asked for, maybe we should start a new thread, just a thought. Unless, the original poster doesn't mind ofcourse.

I have posted on the thread that you are referring to, but IMHO as long as you don't have the boost jacked up to high on your turbo you will be fine running nitrous on a smaller turbo. Like I said in my earlier post I have went through about 5 bottles now squeezing a 75 wet shot on my FP B28 at 22 psi in about a year and a half, and have had no problems at all. My FP B28 turbo now has about 10,000 miles on it and has no shaft play at all. I can run 22 psi on pump gas no problems. If I were running about 24psi and having to use race gas, then yes... the turbo won't probably last near as long because the turbo is obviously out of it's efficiency range if I'm having to use race gas to make more power.

 

[DGajre777]

If I were running about 24psi and having to use race gas, then yes... the turbo won't probably last near as long because the turbo is obviously out of it's efficiency range if I'm having to use race gas to make more power.

Agreed! At 22psi, you are not maxing out the Big T28. But if knighteclipse1 is to run the EVOIII16G turbo to about 330WHP, it will the at the end of it's efficiency range. Anything over it that the turbo pushes with the aid of nitrous will be hot air. Yes, we know that nitrous cools down the intake air in a turbo, but I don't think 400whp is possible with a EvoIII16G and a 50-75 shot of nitrous.

The 400whp goal would be attainable a lot easier with a 50trim or a TD06 20G and a shot of nitrous. That way when you spray nitrous, the turbo is still in its efficiency range. But that that point, it is the same as turning the boost up a few psi.

I used to like nitrous, then I figured well, instead of filling a tank up why not just get a bigger turbo. And with a bigger turbo, the power is always there.

 

[Generation X]

Agreed! At 22psi, you are not maxing out the Big T28. But if knighteclipse1 is to run the EVOIII16G turbo to about 330WHP, it will the at the end of it's efficiency range. Anything over it that the turbo pushes with the aid of nitrous will be hot air. Yes, we know that nitrous cools down the intake air in a turbo, but I don't think 400whp is possible with a EvoIII16G and a 50-75 shot of nitrous.

The 400whp goal would be attainable a lot easier with a 50trim or a TD06 20G and a shot of nitrous. That way when you spray nitrous, the turbo is still in its efficiency range. But that that point, it is the same as turning the boost up a few psi.

I used to like nitrous, then I figured well, instead of filling a tank up why not just get a bigger turbo. And with a bigger turbo, the power is always there.

Yeah I agree bro.

I could have sworn somebody has already made 400whp with just a EVO III 16G without the aid of nitrous. Of course I'm sure they had every imaginable mod to do so, but I think it has been done on turbo only, and race gas.

I would guestimate my whp is at around the 350 to 360whp range while spraying a wet 75 shot.

Yeah I love nitrous bro, and I still plan on using it when I upgrade to a 50 trim variant hopefully sometime in the near future.

But... for now I'm stuck with having to rebuild my tranny from a blown 2nd gear in my 03 WRX damn it!!

 

[knighteclipse1]

Sorry about getting alittle off subject there, I think I'll just go with a bigger turbo and no nitrous. With more lag, maybe the traction issues with a FWD won't be so bad anyway, I guess I need to start checking out different options on the turbo. Thanks for answering my questions so well, it is much appreciated. You guys are top notch!!

 

[DGajre777]

Glad to be of help!

 

[Generation X]

NP!

 

[GVR4592]

If you guys were on the dsmlink forums I could show you a 550whp stock bottom end 7 bolt, a handfull of 450whp stock bottom end 7 bolts and a 400 whp Evo 3 16g powered car without nitrous. I believe some of those people are on this forum as well, maybe they will post their results.

 

[DGajre777]

That would be cool!

 

[4stAir]

I'm not in the DSMlink Forum either. GVR4592 - I'm not trying to prove that you are wrong, if you do know of any 2Gs running 450whp on stock engines, please post some info about their dyno sheets and mods.



You could make up for the difference using nitrous, but using nitrous will cause the turbo to spin at such high RPMs and it won't last very long. One option is to use an external wastegate, but I found out that external wastegates are slow to open, so the turbo will still overspin before the gate opens. Obviously you'll need fuel mods for 400whp too. Here is a thread I started about using a T28 with nitrous compared to the EVO III without nitrous, it is the same theory as using the evoIII with nitrous to make as much power as a 50trim or bigger turbo - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222189. After realizing my power goals, I decided to finally go with a FP Green, expensive as hell, but I don't feel like upgrading turbos over and over again. I know there are cheaper versions of it, but I haven't heard about any good quality 50 trim turbo except the Green.

And since what we are discussing is not what the original poster asked for, maybe we should start a new thread, just a thought. Unless, the original poster doesn't mind ofcourse.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211393
Check it out

 

[Generation X]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211393
Check it out

I actually have that very same vid saved on my computer right now, and 1320 is where I got it from. I was going to bring that vid up, but to me in the vid I thought they said it went to lean, and later found out that they thought it had free reved and that's when the motor grenaded. So, with that being said it looks like the car could have actually made even more power if that issue didn't happen. I think he was still planning on spraying nitrous if I'm not mistaken, but wasn't able to because of the motor letting go. That's still alot of power on a 4 banger though. I would like to know what the max power has been made on a stock 7bolt with stock head bolts.

 

[knighteclipse1]

I'm more interested in how much can be done SAFELY. Last thing I need to do is buy a new engine...But all this information is helpful...