Put head back together, now rpms rise and car is loud!?!?!?!? whats goin on?

[rob1621]

Wtf!!!!!!!!!

i just put everything back together. it all is going good. i start it, and its really really loud and the rpms are increasing. like i turn it on, the RPM's strart to rise really quickly, then i shut it off because im afraid of what could happen. WHAT IS THIS?????

 

[architechnik]

And the cams have the intake "chasing" the exhaust with the number 1 cylinder completely closed at TDC?

EDIT: I do have to apologize for saying opposite direction in the previous post. I meant to ensure that there is no pressure on the intake valves while the exhaust valves are extended. They should alternate with the intake just behind the exhaust, consuming two parts of the 4-cycle.

 

[rob1621]

yeah dont worry about it. its all good.....but i got the sprockets to move, it was just a dumb mistake i dont even wanna say what it was

so we gonna reset the timing and idk..we'll see what happens. im so sick of this......

 

[architechnik]

Did you have it sitting on the ground?!

Before you start it, could you take some pics of the piston positions, timing setup, and the valve train (no cover)? Maybe there's something that we're missing here and we can see it from some pics.

Oh, and before you throw the head back on, give the crank a turn or two to make sure the pistons are moving smoothly. IDK, maybe it's something down below.

 

[rob1621]

well its actually all back on, except for the valve cover and timing belt. but i cant take some pics of the valve cover being off if you want???

 

[architechnik]

Any luck on nailing this down yet? And yes, I would like to see a pic under the valve cover with the timing belt installed and left at TDC. Also, a pic of the cam gears aligned at this same position. There's gotta be something we're all missing.

 

[rob1621]

ok i jus got a quick question, i got all brand new 3g lifters and they are all installed. well they are all tight and wont move, but there are to that i can compress very slightly. is this normal?

 

[architechnik]

You should be able to compress all of them if the oil is drained. They build pressure through hydraulic tension when the oil flows through them. That's part of what I was asking earlier if you let the lifters settle.

Before you install the lifters you were supposed to pump oil through them by submerging them and pushing the pin. Did you go through all of that? If not it may have damaged the lifters. A couple of the faq pages suggest priming the entire engine after the install to make sure that oil is coursing throughout all the lifters appropriately.

 

[Mr Peepers]

You should be able to compress all of them if the oil is drained. They build pressure through hydraulic tension when the oil flows through them. That's part of what I was asking earlier if you let the lifters settle.

Before you install the lifters you were supposed to pump oil through them by submerging them and pushing the pin. Did you go through all of that? If not it may have damaged the lifters. A couple of the faq pages suggest priming the entire engine after the install to make sure that oil is coursing throughout all the lifters appropriately.

??? I've always heard to install the lifters dry besides some assembly lube to get them in, otherwise it will bend valves.

To the OP: I don't want to come off as being rude, but by "removing the head," are you sure you didn't just remove the valve cover?

 

[architechnik]

I did a little more research on the mechanical properties of lifters and the removal/cleaning/install process.

On a new install, the lifters are supposed to be soaked in oil and made sure that oil is pumped throughout. This makes sure that they are completely saturated. They may be internally damaged if there is no oil present and they are installed straight from the machine process, similar to any other part.

By no means does this mean install them while they are filled with oil; that could cause damage to the valves. They have a little check valve inside that keeps them fully open when filled with oil. This valve should be pressed with a pin and the oil drained by pumping the lifter while pressing that valve. Then the lifters are installed after allowing to drain completely. Then the lifters are primed again after install to make them "set" to the correct level just under the minimum cam lobe.

If the lifters have no oil before depressing and installing, they run the risk of not extending at all and staying stuck at the lowest level, not creating any pressure on the rockers, in turn not pushing the valves open. If installed full of oil, they will not depress to the correct level and stay higher than the minimum level of the cam lobes. This will keep the valves open even when the cams want them to be closed (possibly causing the pistons to smack them).

This balance is what has resulted in the lengthy process of soaking in oil, then expelling almost all of the oil, allowing the lifters to set after install, then priming with oil from the internal channels prior to starting.

 

[Mr Peepers]

I did a little more research on the mechanical properties of lifters and the removal/cleaning/install process.

On a new install, the lifters are supposed to be soaked in oil and made sure that oil is pumped throughout. This makes sure that they are completely saturated. They may be internally damaged if there is no oil present and they are installed straight from the machine process, similar to any other part.

By no means does this mean install them while they are filled with oil; that could cause damage to the valves. They have a little check valve inside that keeps them fully open when filled with oil. This valve should be pressed with a pin and the oil drained by pumping the lifter while pressing that valve. Then the lifters are installed after allowing to drain completely. Then the lifters are primed again after install to make them "set" to the correct level just under the minimum cam lobe.

If the lifters have no oil before depressing and installing, they run the risk of not extending at all and staying stuck at the lowest level, not creating any pressure on the rockers, in turn not pushing the valves open. If installed full of oil, they will not depress to the correct level and stay higher than the minimum level of the cam lobes. This will keep the valves open even when the cams want them to be closed (possibly causing the pistons to smack them).

This balance is what has resulted in the lengthy process of soaking in oil, then expelling almost all of the oil, allowing the lifters to set after install, then priming with oil from the internal channels prior to starting.

I've been wondering about that for a while

 

[DSMunknown]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/problem-diagnosis/276817-resolved-grr-unable-collapse-lifters.html

 

[rob1621]

ok sorry ive been away for a while now guys. ive just had no time to write back. well we found out that the lifters wernt collapsing, so then we fixed that. But that wasnt the problem, the valves were to long and they were hitting the piston. So we sent the head back to get the valves grinded down atiny bit. ill tell you guys if everything is working fine on monday.

 

[Sp1kE]

About your rising rpm after startup- check your tps sensor
buddys car did that, when i didnt plug in the sensor all the way.
Maybe the wiring got pinched/cut.