PTE Turbo reliability discussion

[Black95TSIawd]

As of recently, there have been quite a few threads about how bad or good PTE turbo's are. I've also been doing a lot of my own research as to proper sourcing of oil feed lines for these turbo's. I would like to hear from people who have FIRST HAND experience with a PTE turbo. Please do not post about what you've heard from someone unless it was a shop or a very reputable source. This thread could be a good source of info even for future PTE turbo owners.

Follow the breakdown below:

Which PTE turbo?: ??? (Indicate if it's ball bearing or journal bearing)
Balance shafts?: ???
Ported OFH?: ???
Where are you sourcing oil from?: ???
Size of feed line and restrictor?: ???
Has the turbo blown?: ???
How many miles did it or is it lasting?: ???

Here is my story. I'm not going to fill out the format above as my turbo is not on just yet.

I ordered a 6262 journal bearing turbo. The shop sent me a -3 feed line that sources from the head. My motor has no balance shafts and a ported OFH. From what I've been told, oil pressure at the head when warm is around 5psi at idle and should max out somewhere around 30psi. I called PTE and told them this and they said DO NOT feed the turbo from the head. I also asked them what the oil pressure requirements for this turbo are and he did not have a definite answer(I found that odd) but "around" 70psi should be right. He also mentioned that they've seen it run find upwards of 100psi. At this point, i'm really not sure what to do. Hopefully this thread can get filled up and we all can see what works and what does not work.

 

[SOADweskey]

Which PTE turbo?: 5031 Journal Bearing
Balance shafts?: No
Ported OFH?: Yes
Where are you sourcing oil from?: OFH
Size of feed line and restrictor?: -4 0.100" Restrictor
Has the turbo blown?: Yes
How many miles did it or is it lasting?: ~1000

 

[xezerax]

Which PTE turbo?: 5557 Billet Journal Bearing
Balance shafts?: Yes
Ported OFH?: No
Where are you sourcing oil from?: OFH
Size of feed line and restrictor?: No Restrictor, not sure of the feed size... bought from extremepsi
Has the turbo blown?: No
How many miles did it or is it lasting?: ~12,000 @25-29psi

 

[Imback]

Which PTE turbo- scm6152 DBB
Balance shafts- No
Ported OFH- No
Where are you sourcing oil from- OFH
Size of feed line and restrictor- -4 with a restrictor
Has the turbo blown- No
How many miles did it or is it lasting- 3K and counting

 

[Killa_dsm]

Which PTE turbo?: 5031e Journal Bearing
Balance shafts?: Yes
Ported OFH?: No
Where are you sourcing oil from?: Head
Size of feed line and restrictor?: No restrictor, -4an
Has the turbo blown?: No
How many miles did it or is it lasting?: 25k+ until it blew from over boosting from a very loose coupler I forgot about. Had problems with it in the beginning feeding from ofh so moved the feed to the head and never had problems after that.


My friend also had one, before upgrading. Some info on his:
Which PTE turbo?: 5031e Journal Bearing
Balance shafts?: No
Ported OFH?: Yes
Where are you sourcing oil from?: OFH
Size of feed line and restrictor?: No restrictor, -4an
Has the turbo blown?: No
How many miles did it or is it lasting? Not sure, but quite a bit about 3 years.

 

[ludevtec93]

Which PTE turbo?: 4431e journal bearing
Balance shafts?: no
Ported OFH?: No
Where are you sourcing oil from?: ofh
Size of feed line and restrictor?: No restrictor, -4an
Has the turbo blown?: No
How many miles did it or is it lasting?: 12k and counting at 22psi.

 

[Car Cannibal]

Which PTE turbo?: 61/52S Journal Bearing
Balance shafts?: NO
Ported OFH?: NO (but I should)
Where are you sourcing oil from?: OFH
Size of feed line and restrictor?: -3 no restrictor
Has the turbo blown?: NO
How many miles did it or is it lasting?: 40k+ still going strong to 28psi daily
Oil Change?: Every 2k with Pennzoil 10w-40

 

[brisvr4]

Which PTE turbo?: 5031 Journal Bearing
Balance shafts?: Yes
Ported OFH?: Yes
Where are you sourcing oil from?: OFH
Size of feed line and restrictor?: -4 No Restrictor
Has the turbo blown?: No
How many miles did it or is it lasting?: 5000+ and over 3 years

 

[JusMX141]

The only personal experience I've had with a PTE turbo was the 6031E used by dacowgod.

Which PTE turbo?: PTE SCM6031E (T31 turbine, 60-1 compressor, journal bearing T3 center housing)
Balance shafts?: No
Ported OFH?: Yes
Where are you sourcing oil from?: Head and Filter Housing
Size of feed line and restrictor?: -4AN unrestricted and restricted
Has the turbo blown?: Four times.
How many miles did it or is it lasting?: It failed with less than 1200 miles no matter where the oil was sourced. A couple of those times there was no shaft play at all, but the turbo would smoke like crazy. You could always tell right before it was getting ready to die....it would start to sound like a circular saw cutting through plywood a couple hundred miles prior. The last failure was fatal- the thrust washer exploded, and literally welded to the shaft....the shaft had to be cut in order to tear the turbo down.


In almost seven years of rebuilding, I've seen more PTE turbos with blown turbine seals or other random failures than any other brand. Most customers will say their turbo was working great one minute and the next minute their car is smoking or not making boost at all.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Which PTE turbo?:SCM5031RE Ball Bearing
Balance shafts?: NO
Ported OFH?: NO
Where are you sourcing oil from?: Head
Size of feed line and restrictor?: -4an with In-line filter & 0.065" Restrictor
Has the turbo blown?: NO
How many miles did it or is it lasting?:About 3 years Over 20,000 miles and going @ 25-30Psi

 

[diambo4life]

Which PTE turbo? GT3582 Ball Bearing
Balance shafts?: NO
Ported OFH?: YES
Where are you sourcing oil from?: OFH
Size of feed line and restrictor?: -4an with two inline restrictors (FP unit and the PTE one that comes with the turbo)
Has the turbo blown?: NO
How many miles did it or is it lasting: 3 years now. My car is daily driven so it has miles on it and sees a lot of 30psi+ pulls.

Note: This is the second PTE DBB turbo I have run. I sold my last one in perfect running condition. Never blown any turbo. This is my 4th DBB turbo. I personally think they are worth the money just from the reliability perspective alone. I would never run a PTE JB turbo however.

 

[cookmeup272]

Which PTE turbo?: 50 Trim, Journal Bearing
Balance shafts?: No
Ported OFH?: No
Where are you sourcing oil from?: OFH
Size of feed line and restrictor?:
Has the turbo blown?: Yes
How many miles did it or is it lasting?: ~5000

 

[MY1GDSM]

Which PTE turbo?: 50 Trim, Journal Bearing
Balance shafts?: No
Ported OFH?: No
Where are you sourcing oil from?: OFH
Size of feed line and restrictor?: MISSING SOMETHING?
Has the turbo blown?: Yes
How many miles did it or is it lasting?: ~5000

I'm going with error in the oil feed or something making the turbo work harder than it should... .

Not that everyone is feeding these turbos wrong But I would guess that it's at least part of the problem with some of these turbos dieing so soon.

Also, just becasue someone says one way or the other is the best way to feed a turbo doesn't mean in your aplication that it is... . IMHO

 

[JusMX141]

Also, just becasue someone says one way or the other is the best way to feed a turbo doesn't mean in your aplication that it is... . IMHO

THIS.

Too many turbos are sold and installed on these cars by owners who do not understand the oiling requirements for the turbo whatsoever. I can't say this is the single reason that PTE turbos fail prematurely or without warning, but I do know this.....Holset publishes oiling info for every turbo they build in the service manual for the turbo itself. This information is available for anyone to read, and if it's followed you are guaranteed a very long life out of your turbo.

Does anyone actually know the oiling requirement for a Garrett T3 center housing? Seems that every time someone asks PTE what the oiling requirement is for one of their journal bearing turbos they get a different answer, and any time a turbo is sent to them for warranty service, the reason it failed is "an oiling issue". You can't expect to operate a functional business under those circumstances.

 

[E116]

Here's what they say on turbobygarrett.com:

Does my turbo require an oil restrictor?
Oil requirements depend on the turbo's bearing system type. Garrett has two types of bearing systems; traditional journal bearing; and ball bearing.

The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film. If the oil pressure is too low, the metal components will come in contact causing premature wear and ultimately failure. If the oil pressure is too high, leakage may occur from the turbocharger seals. With that as background, an oil restrictor is generally not needed for a journal-bearing turbocharger except for those applications with oil-pressure-induced seal leakage. Remember to address all other potential causes of leakage first (e.g., inadequate/improper oil drain out of the turbocharger, excessive crankcase pressure, turbocharger past its useful service life, etc.) and use a restrictor as a last resort. Garrett distributors can tell you the recommended range of acceptable oil pressures for your particular turbo. Restrictor size will always depend on how much oil pressure your engine is generating-there is no single restrictor size suited for all engines.

Ball-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo.

The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance.




This doesnt really help because it says to just ask the distributor. I found in another section it says "Garrett ball bearing turbochargers require less oil than journal bearing turbos. Therefore an oil inlet restrictor is recommended if you have oil pressure over about 60 psig."

 

[We're on Boost]

Here's what they say on turbobygarrett.com:

The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film.

Here I have a problem.
If a thrust bearing is simply 2 planar faces that are parallel to each other, there is no hydrodynamic lift generated by the rotation speed. You then have a "hydrostatic" thrust bearing which depends totally on the supplied oil pressure for lift.
If you add radial oil grooves, there is some lift generated, I think because the grooves turn it into a pseudo "step" type bearing. "Step" type thrust bearings are the lowest form of hydrodynamic thrust bearing (least effective, but at least it is hydrodynamic).
If you then add ramps to a portion of each bearing face (the faces are between the grooves), then you have a "ramp" type thrust bearing, which is the next one up the ladder from a "step" bearing (ramp makes more psi lift).
So with all this, you would have an actual hydrodynamic thrust bearing.
Trouble is, the ramps can't be very high. Their height is supposed to be about equal to the oil film thickness, which is about .001". So if your bearing for some reason takes .001" of wear, the ramps are gone, and you are back to the pseudo step bearing, which can't take as much load. Even if your ramps take only .0005" of wear, the load capacity is reduced.
I'm not even sure that turbo thrust bearings have the ramp feature. But whether they do or don't, I think they are a recipe for disaster unless they have enough surface area to operate with a large safety factor with no ramps. Apparently the Holset thrust bearings have a pretty large safety factor built in. Not so sure about the Garrett and PTE.

 

[OneBad2L]

Which PTE turbo?: 6152SP journal
Balance shafts?: NO
Ported OFH?: YES (also ported oil trough on head)
Where are you sourcing oil from?: OFH
Size of feed line and restrictor?: -4an with .078" Restrictor
Has the turbo blown?: NO
How many miles did it or is it lasting?: 6k miles and going

 

[cookmeup272]

I'm going with error in the oil feed or something making the turbo work harder than it should... .

Not that everyone is feeding these turbos wrong But I would guess that it's at least part of the problem with some of these turbos dieing so soon.

Also, just becasue someone says one way or the other is the best way to feed a turbo doesn't mean in your aplication that it is... . IMHO

The only reason I didn't fill that in was because im not sure on the exact numbers. I didn't install it. It has a restrictor, im just not 100% sure on the size. When I go to remove the turbo, I will fix that.

 

[camfast]

hmmmm...i just got a sc6152e in great condition but im not sure how to run it. I was thinking of running it from the OFH with no restrictor and a -4AN line. I still have BS in place btw. Any suggestions?

I bought the turbo from a local person who ran a -3AN with no restrictor from the OFH (no BS) and has not had any issues at all with around 2k miles and 12-14 1/4 mile passes.

 

[johnmarines]

Which PTE turbo?: 6152 dual ball bearing
Balance shafts?:BS removed
Ported OFH?: yes
Where are you sourcing oil from?: head
Size of feed line and restrictor?: -4 feed line, restricted (unsure of number) inline earl filter
Has the turbo blown?: NO..not yet (hopefully not)
How many miles did it or is it lasting...over 3k daily driving

 

[Black95TSIawd]

I know there are more of you out there with PTE turbo's. Please share your experiences!!

 

[ulitka]

Which PTE turbo?: T3 Billet 6262 ceramic dual ball bearing
Balance shafts?:BS removed
Ported OFH?: yes
Where are you sourcing oil from?: head
Size of feed line and restrictor?: -4 feed line with FP red inline oil filter
Has the turbo blown?: NO
How many miles did it or is it lasting... over 1K miles at 30psi since 09/2010 install

 

[crazyquik22023]

Which PTE turbo?: T4 Billet 6262 DBB
Balance shafts?:No
Ported OFH?: No
Where are you sourcing oil from?: Head
Size of feed line and restrictor?: -4AN feed line w/ PTE restrictor it came with
Has the turbo blown?: NO
How many miles did it or is it lasting... 3k + at 30+ psi on 93 octane

 

[red1993gsallmt]

Which PTE turbo?: 57trim journal
Balance shafts?: no
Ported OFH?: no
Where where you sourcing oil from?: head, 4an line without restrictor
when did the turbo blown?: yes, under 1k

this was befor i ported my ofh, i was seeing 15psi at the head at an idle but dnt know what it was at redline. it started pasing oil by the compressor wheel and then it took a crap. i also blew a fp18g that was feed the same way. i think the drain on the 57trim was a lil kinked, but the 18g had a new oem drain and had thrust failure. so before i put another turbo on i installed an oil pressure gauge and found i had 140ish psi at redline at the ofh. so after porting and cutting 2 loops of the spring i got the oil pressure to sit at 20psi at hot idle and 75-80psi at 7500rpm. so with my holset i installed a 1990 oil cooler and pulled clean oil from the housing for the turbo. i made a .082 restictor with a 4an feed, and a drain thats 3/4. now i have over 10k and 1.5 years on it at 30psi with zero shaftplay on the hx40. it may have worked with a pte also

 

[b00stedAWD]

Which PTE turbo?: 72mm journal
Balance shafts?: no
Ported OFH?: no
Where where you sourcing oil from?: OFH with -3 line no restrictor
when did the turbo blown?: yes, under 2k