80 lb/min turbo discussion

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

I have always been under the impression that the HX52 flows 89lb/min with the cast wheel and the billet wheel flows ~10% more and spools faster. That is what I came up with when I was researching before purchasing an HX52 pro. I will see if I coppied the compressor maps I found when I get to the shop.

 

[TSimage]

Regarding the s366... They cost roughly the same but the HX52 will make more power. Its rated roughly 100-200 more hp. You're talking about a 78 lb/min s366 vs a 89-96lb/min HX52..

The HX52 normally runs about $50-100 less as well..

Out of ALL of the Holsets I have always felt the HX52 was the true gem of the Holset line up just not many people want to push that hard.

 

[dsmusmc]

Regarding the s366... They cost roughly the same but the HX52 will make more power. Its rated roughly 100-200 more hp. You're talking about a 78 lb/min s366 vs a 89-96lb/min HX52..

The HX52 normally runs about $50-100 less as well..

Out of ALL of the Holsets I have always felt the HX52 was the true gem of the Holset line up just not many people want to push that hard.

I agree. But IMO the s366 and HX52 are to different animals. One is rated for 800hp and the other 900hp. Its all in what you want.

 

[silentscreamer]

right in our holset discussion thread part 1 of however many there is now it says

"HX52:

This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes."

that is just from this site, i found a few compressor maps but the turboforums.com server is down so i cant dig them up unfortunatly.

the cumminsforums.com guys seem to seel quite a few s366s from what i noticed. it might be a place to troll for a good deal.

 

[TSimage]

I agree. But IMO the s366 and HX52 are to different animals. One is rated for 800hp and the other 900hp. Its all in what you want.

Thing is is when you compare a few dynos that were posted, the HX52 spools just as fast as the 366, for cheaper and will make more peak HP.

So although one is rated at 780hp and the other is 890-960hp there is more to it. I had this same question when I decided to pick mine up. I had an S472 and an S475 previously and was thinking about getting some spool back but dropping to a s368 or 66 seemed like I would have been bummed out till I checked the specs on the HX52 and it was an obvious choice.

 

[rlacasse1]

Ok, the book I have doesn't list a HX-52. It does list a HX-50 and an HE451 right at 80lbs/min, a HY-55 at ~90lbs/min, and an HX-60 at 100lbs/min.

Go for a HX-82, shows that one at 200lbs/min. Fun.

I'll scan in the maps tomorrow.

 

[bastarddsm]

You guys know that the number in the hx is like the frame size right? It describes the turbine size. Just like in GT35, 35 describes the turbine. Anyway there is a HX50 with 63mm inducer, and a 72mm turbine. Theres also the H2C which is in the 60mm inducer area. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/145691-holset-turbos-6.html#post1321398

Go for a HX-82, shows that one at 200lbs/min. Fun.

I'll scan in the maps tomorrow.

One of the superstock tractors runs 2 of them compounded with a HX60, on a 5.9 cummins on methanol. like 3500hp.

 

[rlacasse1]

You guys know that the number in the hx is like the frame size right? It describes the turbine size. Just like in GT35, 35 describes the turbine. Anyway there is a HX50 with 63mm inducer, and a 72mm turbine. Theres also the H2C which is in the 60mm inducer area. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/145691-holset-turbos-6.html#post1321398



One of the superstock tractors runs 2 of them compounded with a HX60, on a 5.9 cummins on methanol. like 3500hp.

Yeah, I don't know the exacts of each size, but I knew that was the basic jist of it.

And that sounds like a fun tractor.

 

[biglady112]

Paul we run both the HX52 and Borg Warner 91/79(366). Granted we are at altitude, but both out psuedo divided HX52 setup and .91 T4 open manifold/divided housing 366 spool about the same time(I would say identical). I am a little slower with my 1.6L of course, but I make the full manifold pressure at the same time that Nick does. I just don't make peak torque until a little later. You can run the holset off of a T4 manifold. You just have to slot the holes on the turbine housing to match the T4 bolt pattern.

The outer diameter of the holset flange is 4.7" versus 4" for the 366. I turned my holset down to 4.5" so I could use a 4" v-band for the exhaust and have it match up correctly. We run a 3.5" exhaust out of our hood on the 366 car. I do not have any video of our 366 car at speed or on the dyno. We had a few in car shots from the track this year, but it was testing and there were no full passes that went well.

Built 2.0L HX52
A few years ago before we learned a little more. I deleted the sheets we had for the dynapack from a few years ago showing the boost plot and hp/rpm plot. Sorry.

Dyno then-530@25psi
Nick Sutton's Land Speed Talon - YouTube

Dyno now-577@24psi(way conservative versus a drag tune)
Retribution LSR Car # 4663. The Worlds Fastest FWD DSM @ 213.19mph
Look under gallery, then dyno-7-29-11

Plus there is plenty of other LSR videos with our HX52 on that site and on streetfire


Stock 1.6L HX52 dyno
1989 Dodge Colt 4g61 world record dyno - YouTube

Stock 1.6L HX52 in car @31psi 6000ft above sea level(160mph shut down)
In car of Mary Kay - YouTube

Dark in car races
Mary Kay vs The Widow - YouTube
Mary Kay vs The Widow #2 and #3 - YouTube

S366 6000rpm 2 step
1989 Mitsubishi Mirage 2-step - YouTube


With all that has been said, I LOVE THE HX52. We fully intend to go 190+mph with our 4200lb FWD tank in Ohio in the spring at the Wilmington Mile. For the price it is a spectacular turbo.

But the 366 literally scares the poop out of us at 30psi in our 2200lb Mirage. That car is just flat out insane. The HX52 is a powerhouse and has always been. And we have had four different ones on the car. We are looking to really knock them dead with the 366 in the spring. We went 12.1@108 and 12.0@110 letting off just before the 1000' with a horrible 2-3 shift lock out(damaged hub). That was at 22psi at 5800ft above sea level.

I love both, but favor the holset as they are so cheap. The 366 has made me a believer. And that car only has stock rods and Ross pistons. I wish he had a motor and fuel system to let me see what it was made of.

 

[gbradley]

I wonder how the two compare are far as spool goes? I'd like for it to be no slower spool than 20 psi by 5K, in a ~1.1 A/R housing. I have some wiggle room there though.

Is is safe to assume the HX52 and the S366 are my two best affordable options?


Still compounding. Just looking for something to feed my 20g.

Shouldn't your 20g be feeding an HX52?

 

[biglady112]

I wish I could say where the compounds would spool, but just know that it is going to be a torque freaking monster. Even more so than you had before. May have a hard time keep a clutch in the car. But you have a shot at being within a few hundred rpm of you goal for spool I think.

 

[99gst_racer]

Thanks for the post, Steven. I'm really torn between the HX52 and the S366 now. The Holset is cheaper, but they're both affordable for my budget. The S366 gets the size advantage. It's smaller physical size will be a bit easier to fit in my 2G.

Anybody have inducer and exducer specs on the HX52 turbine wheel? I'm looking forward to seeing a compressor map too.

 

[99gst_racer]

Shouldn't your 20g be feeding an HX52?

Large compressor feeds the small one. See this.

I wish I could say where the compounds would spool, but just know that it is going to be a torque freaking monster. Even more so than you had before. May have a hard time keep a clutch in the car. But you have a shot at being within a few hundred rpm of you goal for spool I think.

From what I can tell, the larger turbo seems to spool the same when compounding as it does when running by itself. So, if I can get something that hits 20 psi by around 5K, then I'll at least be spooling as quickly as my last compound set-up (provided the 10cm housing on the 20g doesn't kill me).

I have a gear drive QM twin disk ready to drop in. Looking forward to 600+ ft/lbs torque.

 

[hurricanecris24]

If only the hx52 had more housings to choice from, thats the only downfall. I love the idea of getting a tial ss housing machined/bored to a hx52 if only it was possible.

 

[99gst_racer]

Man, I'd have a turboner for a week if I figured out how to machine a Tial housing to fit an HX52. Seriously, that would be sick.

 

[gbradley]

Large compressor feeds the small one. See this.

Ahhh! Now I see! Interesting.

 

[black91awdturbo]

I would love to get my hands on an HX50 but man they are hard to find.

 

[99gst_racer]

I would love to get my hands on an HX50 but man they are hard to find.

I noticed that. I only found one on ebay and they wanted an arm and a leg for it. I don't even know what it flows, but I'd bet it's pretty close to 80 lbs/min.

 

[TSimage]

HX 50 flows about what the 366 does but spools faster from the info I've found. Its a pretty nice turbo. Another oddity in the line up.

 

[bastarddsm]

I noticed that. I only found one on ebay and they wanted an arm and a leg for it. I don't even know what it flows, but I'd bet it's pretty close to 80 lbs/min.

Contact this guy. He built the HX60 on my buddies pull truck colbergtractor.com/ Also look on pulloff.com

 

[biglady112]

I can measure my HX52 this morning for you. Just so you folks know the 50, 52 and 55 are the same turbos. They just have varied compressor housings. What is not to love about an all v-band setup though of the HX5x series. I welded an elbow on my 52 compressor outlet where as the one Nick has is a v-band from the start.

I am thinking it is 86mm and 70mm Paul. The compressor is 67mm and 97mm.

 

[rlacasse1]

In the attached PDF there are some maps for some of the larger turbos. To read everything just increase the zoom. And some of the light blue maps are very difficult to see, but you can find them eventually.

What the hell the PDF didn't upload. Oh, it exceeds the size limit. Is there a way around that?

There we go, just save that to your desktop, open it, and then zoom in to read everything.

If someone wants you can throw it in the Holset thread as well.

 

[99gst_racer]

The maps become illegible when I zoom in. How many pizels is the original .jpg file?

 

[rlacasse1]

Hell, I don't know.

Is there a way to over ride the size limit that way I can upload the PDF of it. Which works out great.

It is 464x600

 

[99gst_racer]

There is no way to override the file size upload limit. Please e-mail me the .pdf and I'll see what I can do with it.

I show the file size that you attached is 571x700. Did you resize it down to that after scanning it? If it was 1000 pixels wide, we would be able to read it, and it should scan larger than that automatically.