Power phases??

[1.8laser90]

hey guys, im new to the 420a but not new to dsms. i have acouple 1g's, a 1.8, 2.0 and 2.0 awd turbo so i have the whole dsm family i guess but my newest one is my 97 eclipse gs with the 420a. It has 140k miles but runs good somtimes.. its pretty much stock besides muffler but that doesn't do much but it seems like theres times where it pulls hard and strong and other times it feels week and not want to accelerate as good as before.. does this make sense ? ive replaced the plugs with ngk's, fuel filter and thats about it. Theres also times where it seems hesistant when i press the gass, like ill be cruising and press on the gas and it will like hesistate for a second. It also does this when just cruising somtimes.. is this normal ? i never really noticed this until a month ago right after i baught the car i pressure washed the engine and its seemed like that sometimes ever since.. i do have some plans for this engine tho.. like exhaust, intake, crank pulley, head work and the ecu thats made for my year which makes me feel alot better i baught this car cause the ecu only works with the 97.. i paid 2400 for my gs and its nice condition except these little twitches it has.. so all help is apreciated

 

[1.8laser90]

well im gunna try reseting the ecu by leaving the cables off the battery for a bit. Hopfully that helps some becauase it seems to be geting worse. it was getting great gas milage, now its guzzlin it seems all of a sudden. Idk but anybody know what would cause it to be kinda jurky when cruising? not bad, but noticable.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Check over everything in the engine bay... check all electrical connections and hoses. Look for disconnected or damaged vacuum lines.

Damage on vacuum lines may not be apparent, so be ready to take everything off and for a thorough inspection. My car had 109K on it when I got it, and the vac line to the EVAP system ("P" port on the throttle body) was noticeably degrading. More recently, I found that one of the PCV lines was dried and cracked. The cracks were on the bottom of the hose, though, so I hadn't seen it until I took the valve off for replacement.

Keep doing maintenance work too. Replace anything that appears to be heading south. Have you gotten a new air filter yet? A clogged air filter can severely hurt performance.

97's aren't particularly known for failing ECUs, so I doubt that's the problem. I'll put my money on vacuum leaks or bad sensors...

I'm just throwing out idea here. As I think of more, I'll post them...

 

[1.8laser90]

sweet thanks ill check over the vacuum lines tonight. I did replace the air filter, it had a k&n and i didn't notice till i baught a filter and was putting it in but the k&n was pretty bad. so ill clean it and put it back in later. I hoocked the battery back up after replaceing the front driver side control arm, fun fun.. It seems ok now but still not like the times it would surprise me and pull really hard.. u mention somthing about ecu going bad ? do they go bad around this year like 95 96 ? i noticed last night after a long highway drive and some spirated driving that when i poped the hood when i shut the car off i heard this odd noice coming from the ecu kinda like a buzzing noice. it did it for a acouple minutes after i shut the car off. i went inside real quick and came back out and the noice stopped. is that normal? Thanks for the help

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Hmm... buzzing ECU... I've never heard of that before - maybe somebody else has, though.

I was just saying that out of all the years, 95s are probably the most prone to ECU failure. I'd be surprised if yours died on you, but anything's possible. The worst case scenario is that you need to go searching for a stock replacement, or you drop the few hundred dollars on an AF/X unit.

 

[1.8laser90]

Well i checked the hoses and the one thats on the TB is cracked and is probly leaking.. what would this cause it to do? i pulled it off and it had a great effect on it.. but idk, it sputered acouple times today.. i pulled out of the drive and took off quick and it spuderd like 3 times in a row and then took off.. grr i don't know whats causeing it! im gunna go run a compression test on it, ill post up my results.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Hmm... buzzing ECU... I've never heard of that before - maybe somebody else has, though.

I was just saying that out of all the years, 95s are probably the most prone to ECU failure. I'd be surprised if yours died on you, but anything's possible. The worst case scenario is that you need to go searching for a stock replacement, or you drop the few hundred dollars on an AF/X unit.

Unfortunately these computers are not available to 95's.

http://howellautomotive.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=137

 

[VelocitàPaola]

There ya go... now you're thinking! Definitely post the results to the compression test.

Also, replace any vacuum lines that you found were leaking. My car could barely hold an idle when I took off the line going to the throttle body.

Also, is your CEL on? If so, you should get the code pulled to see what's causing the problem.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Unfortunately these computers are not available to 95's.

http://howellautomotive.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=137

I know, he has a 97.

I said in a previous post that I wouldn't think his ECU would fail since it isn't a 95.

 

[BigRand]

Do u notice that your car seems to pull better when its cold? Because that is how my car was when it was NT, pulled hard because of the fuel it was getting I guess.

I would try doing a TB cleaning, you'd be surprised how it might help out.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Try seafoam as well. If you inject it into your TB and intake manifold, it goes through your motor cleaning out all the gunk and carbon build up. I just used it and my car runs much smoother, strongr idle, so I'm sure it would benefit you to some extent.

Sorry about that Paul, missed your previous comment. I WISH they made them for 95's though... Would there be any way to modify them TO fit the 95s?

 

[bullettdsm]

ECU buzzes? Normal:

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=84919&mode=full

Blitz, sorry, has not been done successfully that I know of. There was talk some time back about Howell continuing but I believe that was either rumors or Howell decided it was not cost effective.
MB

 

[Blitzeclips]

Man that's a bummer. So what other upgrades would there be for a 1995 GS ECU? I honestly don't or can't recall ANY in my years of product research.

P.S- a leakdown test might be good to run as well..

 

[dr1665]

what other upgrades would there be for a 1995 GS ECU?

None. There are no ECU upgrades of any kind for the 2GNT aside from the 97 AFX ECU replacements.

Buzzing is normal.

I'm wondering if water made it's way down into the spark plug wells, shorting out things when it was there and just allowing the plugs to foul or something. Yank the plug wires and take a look-see into the spark plug wells. Pull your plugs and inspect them as well. Doesn't matter if you checked things out before you pressure washed the engine bay. Doing so introduces a shitton of gremlins to a 420A.

 

[1.8laser90]

when i washed the engine water did get down there, alot actually but i checked right after so i blew all the water out with a compressor and let it sit for awhile and dry out. Ive used sea foam on my cars it does help out some but i haven't got a chance to pick up some to try on it. ive ran some good high octane boster/ injector cleaner the last 2 tanks and haven't noticed much from that soo the fuel system must be cleaned out. I ran the compression test, my plugs looked alright, they all looked the same. They had a red rusty power stuff on the tip of the plugs, all of them did so im guessing some water did get down there but that was a month ago soo.. Each cylinder had 180 psi, which is good because there all very even but what psi is considered good and bad for the 420a? 180 seams kinda low for the 420a isn't it ? thanks for the help guys

 

[bullettdsm]

140k on the engine and 180 across are very good numbers. Comp is fine

Blitz, the only thing available for adjustment is SAFC, MSnS (I'm surprised that Brian didn't mention that ) or a standalone of some kind. And the SAFC will net you very little. The only reason that I am running one is because I had one on my AWD and went to DSMLink.

MB

 

[1.8laser90]

well thats good. well i just raced acouple cars and one of them was a 96 talon. I kinda know the dude that has it, he almost baught my awd but i guess he got this instead. Well we raced acouple times, each time i actually pulled away from him. So that tells me my car is running pretty good now since it pulled away from another 420a, manual too. i feel alot better now . But my tranny grinds soooo bad going into 2nd it didn't even go in 1 time. Its fine for normal driving but if rpms go over 5k it grinds realllyyy bad, will changing the tranny fluid help ? any special kind? I have one more question, does the
420a handle racing,beating exc? i always here that there crap cause there a crysler engine and can't handle much beating.. is that true ? i know there a crysler engine but can they not handle much ? because im afriad its gunna blow up on me or blow a headgasket when spirated driving.. don't get me wrong i don't beat on my cars, i take care of them do regular maintance ecx but like to have alittle fun every now and then.. my 1.8 4g37 i beat on but it handled it very well and always asked for more But the 420a scares when im on the gas cause i always here they blow headgaskets and this and that well thanks for your help guys i apreciate it

 

[VelocitàPaola]

The 420A engines are absolutely amazing, especially when compared to the 4G63 or 4G37. The head is a Lotus designed piece that was supposed to be used for racing applications. Lotus dropped the project and Chrysler picked up the design for their 420A engines. The block was designed in the mid-nineties using sophisticated CAD programs. The same can't be said for the 4G63, which was designed well over 25 years ago. Granted, 420As weren't equipped to handle boost, so the internal need a little upgrading if you head in that direction. If you stay N/A though, they can handle quite a beating. You might want to rebuild for higher compression and peace of mind, but it isn't absolutely necessary.

If your tranny grinds badly, that means that at least your 2nd gear synchro is heading south. You can try rebuilding the tranny and replacing the bad synchro, although, the 1st and 2nd gears are on the output shaft, which is technically unserviceable. You can actually still "service" it, but it takes a shop press and a little finessing. The only problem is finding the proper replacement parts... I haven't been able to find any, but I know Terry knows of rebuild kits; maybe he'll chime in later.

If it's easier, you could replace the whole shaft from another tranny, or better yet, replace the whole tranny. There is a tech article here and on 2GNT that talks about the benefits of swapping a 3.55 final drive transmission from a Neon into your car.

http://www.2gnt.com/nuke/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=142

Finally, our trannies have brass synchros lined with "organic material" (paper). Because of this design, regular manual transaxle fluid (i.e. Synchromesh, etc.) doesn't work too well. A few sources have claimed that general MTX fluids eat away that paper lining, effectively destroying the synchros. Personally, I've had Synchromesh in my car for more than a year, but I too notice difficulty in shifting at extremely high RPMs (~6000 RPM).

If you do things by the book, you'll want dealer fluid, and dealer fluid only in your manual transmission. There used to be a very specific and expensive fluid that could only be found at Mitsubishi/Chrysler/Dodge dealerships. More recently, New Venture Gear (the folks that made our transmissions) announced that automatic transmission fluid used in the newer NVG trannies can be used in ours with no ill effects.

 

[bullettdsm]

Just to add to Velocita very informative post; I would recommend only dealer fluid for the reason that he stated. It is actually made by Texacco for Mitsu (or so my dealer parts buddy told me). I have 145k on the tranny now with only mitsu fluid. I no lift shift up to 8500 rpm. Still (knocks on wood) no problems.

MB

 

[1.8laser90]

well i guess my problems are getting worse, it seems like the sputtering is all the time or every drive. Its fine when your accelerating but its like u can feel it slightly give in and out. when your cruising u can feel and here in the exhaust that its like cutting back and today i actually noticed it when i pushed in the clutch when backing up to leave, my rpms dropped below normal and it hesitated for a second or 2 then came back to normal. it makes no sense why it does it. i have no check engine light but ive learned with dsms just because theres no check engine light, sensors stilll can be bad. but idk it runs smooth besides this, its never died or given me any reason it will its juist somthin just isn't right. im taking it on a 4 1/2 trip tomorrow so all the help i can get before then would be awesome! ill also be climbing mountains and big hills so i wanna make sure its running in perfect condition.. im forced to take it tho or i wouldn't until i figured out whats going on but i can't.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

It sounds like it's misfiring now. I would check the plug gaps. Then watch the car while idling to look for any arcing between the spark plug wires and whatever else. Believe it or not, spark from the wire to cylinder four was arcing to a vacuum line of all things. Obviously, the car ran like crap until I pushed the sparkplug wires more firmly into the coil and relocated that vacuum line.

 

[1.8laser90]

ive had it idleing while i was looking under the hood, i didn't see any sparking or anything like that. im gunna try some spark plugs again maybe they fouled when some water got in the cylinders ? my dad seems to think im geadgasket is going since im loosing coolant... but i think its from my radiator cap, i just replaced it so we'll see tomrrow

 

[poseclipse]

Hey whats up man don't feel bad i have the same problem with mine i have had the head dunk tanked new oil plugs and new timing belt water pump new oil pump seals, im runing a k&n air filter in the stock box, The cracks in the vac lines i had same issue about a day ago and fix the wierd idle do to the cracks on the vac lines, It seems there only a couple things left for me to do one of my problems are the mad exshaust leaks i have also never change the fuel filter so when its cold the car is flaw less runs great pulls hard when the temp gets higher the car still runs good until about 5 to 10 mins of runing i also have a cel light on witch is a large evap canester leak with i have to find out where the heck the evap lines are just my two cents im almost leaning as its a computer issues with the air temp runing in to the car maybe not postive on that one ill try to figure out my problem let ya know what i come up with oh you should turbo hehe car just not fast enough with out boost

 

[1.8laser90]

Well i made it, it ran pretty good to. It handled the turn pike and climbing the mountains very well, i got excellent gas milages also! i still notice the slit misfire but its every know and then. I need to replace the wires tho i think thats what the prob is they seem kinda old. i get my pay check in a week or 2 (just got a job) so ill have alot of money to load into it Im gunna start with some good wires and plugs, upgrade to msd coil, crank pulley, header and full catback with resonator in cats place, then just a decent ebay intake.. it should run pretty good then and notice a increase in get up and go. Then im just saving for the afx ecu .. ill keep u guys updated. ill replace the wires soon as i get back with some good ones and hopfully it will take away the slight miss fire. thanks again

 

[dr1665]

Then im just saving for the afx ecu ..

The AFX is nice, but for the money, you could build the MSnS and have even more control. On top of that, you could buy the parts to make your harness up front, then find a cheap (read: < $50) laptop for tuning, and finally pick up the MS in the end and be able to do all that AFX can do and more. It's really why I sold my AFX ECU last year. Haven't installed the MSnS yet, but it's just been too busy since last November for me to bother with it and now it's too damn hot!

Good luck. Glad to hear you're rolling again.