Possible Clutch Fork Problem.

[twicks69]

I have not fully disassembled the clutch master. I'm not even sure how.

But that thought didn't cross my mind. When my mechanic and I were testing the clutch system components, we would test for pressure individually at the master and the slave. We had solid pressure every time.

This all sounds much better though. I was really hoping to not have to drop the tranny or the damn CW thing.

You unbolt the master cylinder from the firewall, undo the adjustment rod bracket from the pedal assembly, and disconnect the 10mm line wrench fitting to the clutch hydraulic hardline.

Once removed, you will remove the boot and then use a flat-head screwdriver or a needle nose pliers to remove the wave spring, then the guts pop out either by falling out, or by tapping the master cylinder on a surface to have the parts fall out.

 

[GofaST4life]

You unbolt the master cylinder from the firewall, undo the adjustment rod bracket from the pedal assembly, and disconnect the 10mm line wrench fitting to the clutch hydraulic hardline.

Once removed, you will remove the boot and then use a flat-head screwdriver or a needle nose pliers to remove the wave spring, then the guts pop out either by falling out, or by tapping the master cylinder on a surface to have the parts fall out.

I have changed out a Master before, very easy. Just never taken one apart.

With all the guts removed, what would I be looking for?

 

[twicks69]

I have changed out a Master before, very easy. Just never taken one apart.

With all the guts removed, what would I be looking for?

damaged/scratched/scored cylinder bore, damaged/scratched/scored piston, damaged/cracked/split inner or outer piston seals. The inner piston seal is likely the one failing.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

There is likely buildup, debris, or a nick in the seal for the master cylinder. You may not even be able to see it.

Replace or rebuild the master to eliminate the possibility.

edit: ^^ jerk! haha!
I had this page loaded up on my laptop that was in sleep mode and didn't see half the updates from post 18 down!

 

[GofaST4life]

damaged/scratched/scored cylinder bore, damaged/scratched/scored piston, damaged/cracked/split inner or outer piston seals. The inner piston seal is likely the one failing.

I'm going to tackle this hopefully this weekend. I will surely report back with my findings.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

How did you make out?

 

[GofaST4life]

How did you make out?

Didn't even tackle it. Got really sick and spent the weekend in bed.

Also, it was 25 degrees and not having a garage makes things difficult.

Supposed to have some "warmer" weather this next week, so im going to do it ASAP.

 

[GofaST4life]

I plan on taking the master out this weekend.

UPDATE:
- Ghost clutch is very sparatic. Maye happen 3 or 4 times during a drive. May not happen at all. Clutch points also change.
- Zero fluid loss.

 

[twicks69]

Your master cylinder likely has a blown inner piston seal. Disassemble the master cylinder and inspect/repair with an OEM master cylinder rebuild kit.

 

[GofaST4life]

Your master cylinder likely has a blown inner piston seal. Disassemble the master cylinder and inspect/repair with an OEM master cylinder rebuild kit.

I plan on doing this ASAP.

Also...I found out that if I press the clutch pedal in, very slowly, it will ghost all the way to floor. Will do it every time.

If I am using it normally, quick pumps and what not, it does not happen.

 

[twicks69]

Yup, sounds like a piston seal is shot.

 

[GofaST4life]

UPDATE:

The leaky master finally gave me enough problems to warrant installing the new one I had purchased. I had been DDing the car and it was actually not giving me any problems.

I was driving home from work and during the previous day and at that time, I noticed getting it into gear was becoming a bit hard, small amounts of grinding at times. Very inconsistent.

Anyway, so I remove the old master, I peel the boot back and give it a good examination. Not a ton of fluid but enough to know that it was leaking and probably getting worse.


So I get the new one installed and spend 5 hours with a buddy trying to bleed the damn thing! We ended up removing it, filling it with fluid, then re-installing. We built a little pressure, but then lost it. Finally got frustrated and called it a night.

Does anyone have a tried and true bleeding method? We were using the Jafromobile method.

 

[GofaST4life]

Im going to pick up a Brake Bleeder from harbor freight today after work to finish this damn Master Cylinder install and bleed from hell.

Will report back with results.

 

[twicks69]

Hopefully it isn't a shit one. Otherwise you will be creating more problems.

I have a few ones I own and/or have used in the past. I have had good luck with Mityvac brand ones.

This is the one I use primarily. The Mityvac 6830. Cornwell Webcat -- MV6830

My other one is a MightyVac MV8500 handheld hand-pump/vacuum style.

I use it sometimes in conjunction with MV6850 adaptor set. The 6830 can be used with shop air instead of doing it hand-pump like the MV8500.


I believe that http://www.airtoolsforless.com/ has the best price I have seen on the MV6830 at $114.50. The MV6850 I purchased through my Cornwell dealer for less than $160. The MV8500 handheld is $60.




I have also used a 25 in/Hg vacuum peristaltic pump and a 1/2HP portable vacuum pump with good results. I simply sleeve 1/4" polyethylene tubing with 5/16" silicone tubing and I attach it to the bleeder valve on the slave; OR with the adaptor set listed above I attach it to the master cylinder reservoir.

 

[sincitydru]

I too need a solution for 100% bleed of clutch. I would build up pressure then loose it all the sudden. (Working on my friends car) I did the same method I did to my car. This is after master and slave install.

 

[GofaST4life]

Well, I went to Harbor Freight and bought a $20 Bleeder/Vacuum Hand pump.


WORKED GREAT!!

I have solid pedal pressure. Really gotta give her a good push. Car shifts like butter, and I have plenty of play for the clutch.

 

[GofaST4life]

The issue has since come back.

Have re-bled the system over and over.


The other day, after a drive, I was cleaning some thing under the hood and heard what sounded like a faint bubbling noise coming from the fluid reservoir on the tranny. I'm going to bypass it to see if the problem is finally fixed.

 

[GofaST4life]

UPDATE: 8/29/2013

As of 3 days ago, I have installed a BRAND NEW Master Cylinder, Slave Cylinder and STM Stainless Clutch Line Kit. So no more stock lines and fluid reservoir.

I have adjusted the Master via the Jacks Tranny videos. Its dead on. My still grabs right off the floor, and at times its a notchy shift. Very spastic. But I have no more ghost pedal and I have a solid clutch pedal.

I honestly feel like i'm just not getting enough "push" to give me a good disengagement.

Maybe I need to re-bleed the system again. Idk.

 

[twicks69]

UPDATE: 8/29/2013

As of 3 days ago, I have installed a BRAND NEW Master Cylinder, Slave Cylinder and STM Stainless Clutch Line Kit. So no more stock lines and fluid reservoir.

I have adjusted the Master via the Jacks Tranny videos. Its dead on. My still grabs right off the floor, and at times its a notchy shift. Very spastic. But I have no more ghost pedal and I have a solid clutch pedal.

I honestly feel like i'm just not getting enough "push" to give me a good disengagement.

Maybe I need to re-bleed the system again. Idk.

You likely have air in the lines still.

 

[GofaST4life]

You likely have air in the lines still.

Twicks69, I very much appreciate your input and expertise with all this.

My buddy is coming over today, I think we will do another good bleed and see what happens.



I will surely report back.

 

[twicks69]

Take your time with it, do it two person, back out the master cylinder rod so there is no load on the cylinder piston with the pedal up, then pump the pedal several times slowly confirming that the piston is fully returning to its limiter snapring getting full cylinder travel and THEN, start the bleeding process. Crack slave bleeder valve, by hand, slowly push down the clutch pedal and close valve when pedal has had full extension to floor. By hand, lift pedal back up slowly. Open valve, again by hand, slowly push pedal to floor. Close valve. Slowly pull pedal back up. Visually confirm master cylinder piston is returning to outermost position, then with valve closed push down pedal to watch master cylinder piston travel as well as measuring the travel of the slave cylinder rod or fork movement. Hold pedal down, confirm that the slave is not losing pressure and moving the pin/fork back towards the cylinder. Confirm there are no leaks and with reservoir cap off there are no air bubbles. Top off reservoir, put the rubber boot in the cover so it is fully recessed in and tighten cap.

Now, let off pedal. Pump it several times SLOWLY. Check where the pedal pressure is increasing and gauge your clutch engagement window from engaged at up/mid pedal to the point of disengagement and full disengagement. It should likely be around a 2"-4" window of pedal travel and should be adjusted so full disengagement is at floor or within an inch or so from floor. Adjust your master cylinder rod into towards the master cylinder until you have this window of engagement. Pump pedal several times slowly to confirm engagement window. With pedal up, crack bleeder valve and confirm that there is no pressure on the system. If so, you have an over-disengagement issue. Close bleeder. Check fluid levels. Confirm slave cylinder rod/fork travel again by measuring vs. Your previous measurements. It should be equal or more than your first measurement. With pedal back in up position, confirm that the slave cylinder rod and cork can travel back towards the cylinder by hand with gentle pressure with just fluid resistance. If it is hard, you likely have over adjustment of the master cylinder rod.

Always use fresh fluid out of a freshly opened bottle. I prefer Valvoline synthetic dot 3/4 brake fluid or ATE Super Blue. Stay away from Wilwood 580 or Motul 600 as they are extremely hydroscopic and require regular flushing to confirm proper fluid moisture levels.

Now, turn car on and actually confirm pedal travel and full clutch disengagement and pedal location of full disengagement.


Give this method a try, it normally is what I do on my own car.

 

[GofaST4life]

That is an awesome write up!

Ill grab a buddy and do this exact method ASAP and report back.

Thank you!

 

[GofaST4life]

Well, its been the same old story. Bleed after Bleed, new fluids, all new parts.

It finally dawned on me to look at my clutch fork position. Sometimes the most obvious things get over looked.

Sooo.....

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[PieEyedPiper]

Something is worn the eff out. Is that a stock clutch, etc.?
Might be time for a new pivotball/fork.... and clutch.

Are you hitting the bellhousing?

 

[GofaST4life]

Something is worn the eff out. Is that a stock clutch, etc.?
Might be time for a new pivotball/fork.... and clutch.

Are you hitting the bellhousing?

As far as I know, yeah stock clutch.
And yes, after a test, it is hitting the bell housing.

Looking into my options for replacement and what not.

Being as she is my DD and im getting married. Money is tight.