Port n polish?

[New2Dsms]

Just wondering when i go into a shop what would i say if i wanted to get my intake manifold ported and polished, and my tb bored out. I dont know about the intake manifold but i do know that with the tb i have to let them know how much i want it bored to. WHat should i get the tb bored out to??? And as for the IM do i just say port n polish it?

 

[ShadowWulf]

55mm i believe for the TB

 

[bullettdsm]

Just wondering when i go into a shop what would i say if i wanted to get my intake manifold ported and polished, and my tb bored out. I dont know about the intake manifold but i do know that with the tb i have to let them know how much i want it bored to. WHat should i get the tb bored out to??? And as for the IM do i just say port n polish it?

If the shop is capable enough to do it, you shouldn't worry too much. Just tell them what you want to do and let them look at your stock parts (bring the intake gasket). I would suggest that they gasket match the head side and port match the TB side. Are you just taking out the bevel of your TB? Are you making it bigger overall (thus needing a new "butterfly")? Are you putting a 60mm replacement TB on? Are you putting a Jeep hybrid on? Whatever choice you are taking they need to have all the appropriate parts so that they can do a match. If the shop looks at you funny and says they'll "try" it, run away! If they aren't sure of what they are doing it can give you headaches.

MB

 

[dr1665]

Aside from gasket matching the lower intake runners, one of the best things they can do for your manifold in terms of machining, is to knife edge the injector humps. It's been proven to be one the most effective mods from 420A intake porting outside the head.

 

[GSGoinFast]

Aside from gasket matching the lower intake runners, one of the best things they can do for your manifold in terms of machining, is to knife edge the injector humps. It's been proven to be one the most effective mods from 420A intake porting outside the head.

hey can you go into a little more detail on this injector hump thing? ive heard about it before. is it something i can do myself? im getting a mp 60mm tb soon so i will be taking my intake mani off, should i do it then? thanks

 

[GSGoinFast]

Just wondering when i go into a shop what would i say if i wanted to get my intake manifold ported and polished, and my tb bored out. I dont know about the intake manifold but i do know that with the tb i have to let them know how much i want it bored to. WHat should i get the tb bored out to??? And as for the IM do i just say port n polish it?

i dunno if i would just take it to some shop and ask them to bore it out.. i think i would feel more comfortable giving it so someone that offers the service... sent your tb to howell, $100 for 55mm, and send your intake mani to exileracing.com, $125 for that...

 

[New2Dsms]

If the shop is capable enough to do it, you shouldn't worry too much. Just tell them what you want to do and let them look at your stock parts (bring the intake gasket). I would suggest that they gasket match the head side and port match the TB side. Are you just taking out the bevel of your TB? Are you making it bigger overall (thus needing a new "butterfly")? Are you putting a 60mm replacement TB on? Are you putting a Jeep hybrid on? Whatever choice you are taking they need to have all the appropriate parts so that they can do a match. If the shop looks at you funny and says they'll "try" it, run away! If they aren't sure of what they are doing it can give you headaches.

MB

So there is more to it than just gettin my tb bored i have to buy new gaskets and all?

 

[New2Dsms]

i dunno if i would just take it to some shop and ask them to bore it out.. i think i would feel more comfortable giving it so someone that offers the service... sent your tb to howell, $100 for 55mm, and send your intake mani to exileracing.com, $125 for that...

Yea i would definately feel more comfortable doin it that way but i dont want my car out of service for however long it takes to ship it do it and ship it back I dont have a spare tb or intake manifold, i was hopeing i can just bring it into a shop in the mornin and have it ready later that day.....

 

[dr1665]

hey can you go into a little more detail on this injector hump thing? ive heard about it before. is it something i can do myself? im getting a mp 60mm tb soon so i will be taking my intake mani off, should i do it then? thanks

I know Eddy had a picture up of what he did to my lower mani on his site, but his site appears to be down for some time now. I know he's moving and expanding into other areas, so I'll see if I can't get you a picture here before too long. (www.fierroracing.com)

When you look at the ports where the injectors enter the airstream from the head side of the manifold, you will see that the bulges around the injectors are tall and rounded. What I had done was have these bulges machined down to be sharp edges at the trailing edge (the last point where the air will flow across a spot before passing the injector). It increases the overall volume of the runner and help keep velocity up by reducing turbulence. Hope that helps in the mean time.

 

[bullettdsm]

First off to New2Dsms, No you don't need different gaskets (though I would get new stock gaskets). The reason that you send (or give) them your gaskets is so they can "gasket match" your ports. They use the gasket to grind out your intake and "match it up." As for the dropping it off in the morning and then picking it; I don't know how feasable that is. I do know that the labor can be done in that time period but it would be up to the shop that you are dealing with.

As for dr1665, who I have a new found respect for from a different thread , I did grind down the injector humps in a v form (as well as obvious other spots) but I did not go with the knife edge. I am curious for the reasoning of making a sharp angle as opposed to smoothing them off. I can see the v to help direct the air but why the knife edge? Any input?

I apologize if this hi-jacks the thread a little but this info could help New2Dsms understand about porting.

MB

 

[New2Dsms]

Very well said bullettdsm ty

 

[dr1665]

As for dr1665, who I have a new found respect for from a different thread,

Why, thank you! Money talks. Bullshit walks.

I did grind down the injector humps in a v form (as well as obvious other spots) but I did not go with the knife edge.

By knife edge, I meant the entire injector hump was machined flat to be parallell with the runner wall. It is a sharp, flat edge just ahead of the injector.

I am curious for the reasoning of making a sharp angle as opposed to smoothing them off. I can see the v to help direct the air but why the knife edge? Any input?

By removing the hump as much as possible like this, the volume of the runner is increased over what it once was, allowing more air through and better fuel atomization at the injector. While the injector humps' narrowing of the runner right at the head like that certainly plays a part in increasing velocity, removing them as much as possible (in an aerodynamic way) allows for better top end imo. And really, while an overly large throttle body will slow you down unless you can force enough air through it (with a turbo) to maintain at least stock air velocity, once the air is within an inch of the valves, I don't see how opening things up there can really do anything but help you out.

I met up with Eddy Fierro yesterday when I went with a buddy to pick up his ported manifold and he told me that this process alone netted one of his Neon customers about 5mph and another .2 off his ETs consistently. There isn't much need to direct any of the air, as its in the runner and has but one place to go... boom! Eddy's site should be up soon. He said someone tried to buy the domain out from under him and he's fighting to keep it.

Hope this information helps.

 

[GSGoinFast]

Why, thank you! Money talks. Bullshit walks.


By knife edge, I meant the entire injector hump was machined flat to be parallell with the runner wall. It is a sharp, flat edge just ahead of the injector.


By removing the hump as much as possible like this, the volume of the runner is increased over what it once was, allowing more air through and better fuel atomization at the injector. While the injector humps' narrowing of the runner right at the head like that certainly plays a part in increasing velocity, removing them as much as possible (in an aerodynamic way) allows for better top end imo. And really, while an overly large throttle body will slow you down unless you can force enough air through it (with a turbo) to maintain at least stock air velocity, once the air is within an inch of the valves, I don't see how opening things up there can really do anything but help you out.

I met up with Eddy Fierro yesterday when I went with a buddy to pick up his ported manifold and he told me that this process alone netted one of his Neon customers about 5mph and another .2 off his ETs consistently. There isn't much need to direct any of the air, as its in the runner and has but one place to go... boom! Eddy's site should be up soon. He said someone tried to buy the domain out from under him and he's fighting to keep it.

Hope this information helps.

actually i got another question now. what do you consider an over sized throttle body? im going to buy an MP 60mm soon, you think i should leave the humps or not?

 

[SnoopySLR]

I have the MPX 60mm TB and love it.

I always heard that your never supposed to remove those humps at the injector housing. When I port and polished my manifold, I just polished those humps. I got a good 10-15 whp (no joke) when I P&P my mani and added the 60mm TB.

 

[GSGoinFast]

I have the MPX 60mm TB and love it.

I always heard that your never supposed to remove those humps at the injector housing. When I port and polished my manifold, I just polished those humps. I got a good 10-15 whp (no joke) when I P&P my mani and added the 60mm TB.

is that before you were turbo or after? and is that dyno proven or a guesstimate?

 

[SnoopySLR]

N/A and its more of a guess. I can tell you that my buddies Z24 Cav would pull about 2 car lengths on me before I did it. After I P&P and added my 60mm TB we were dead even. Z24's have 160hp and 170Tq.

 

[flashy]

so what is the maximum amount you can safely bore your TB out to without replacing the butterfly? or is it more beneficial to get a new butterfly?

 

[GSGoinFast]

so what is the maximum amount you can safely bore your TB out to without replacing the butterfly? or is it more beneficial to get a new butterfly?

i think the only way to keep the stock butterfly is to do the 52mm bore all the way through. which is just boring out the section that drops to 49mm, which isnt going to give you good gains. plus why do you want to keep the stock tb? all you gotta do is send it to howell for $100 and they will bore it out to 55mm strait through and get a new butterfly.

 

[flashy]

i think the only way to keep the stock butterfly is to do the 52mm bore all the way through. which is just boring out the section that drops to 49mm, which isnt going to give you good gains. plus why do you want to keep the stock tb? all you gotta do is send it to howell for $100 and they will bore it out to 55mm strait through and get a new butterfly.

I don't need to keep my stock butterfly. I didn't realize it was that cheap to replace it. How can I get in touch with Howell? Also, I send them my stock TB and they send me it back bored with a new buttefly? Am i going to need an additional things to get it back on the motor?

 

[bullettdsm]

OK dr1665 now I understand the cut. I did not choose to go that deep because I have not played with these intakes before. I don't know enough about the thickness of the walls. Though at that point of the runners being so close to the opening of the valves I can see no harm in it either. On the contrary, what I saw was a chance to up the velocity by the narrowing of the ports to the head (that's also a reason I did a v in the hump).

As for the throttle body size, I was quite happy with using my 60mm Jeep hybrid. I first installed the the stock TB (with the "hump" ground out) on my P + P intake. I did notice the difference right away (it was considerable). A week later I had put my hybrid together and I felt even more power (though, SnoopySLR, I would be careful about guessing that whp. Sometimes you can get a good day and your buddy can have a bad day . I am very happy with the Jeep 60mm TB (though I am currently having problems with the spring set-up). The car breathes very well now.

I would reccomend the 60mm for you Chris. Especially with the nitrous set-up. It should flow that much better.

As for Flashy, the butterfly must close all the way around the port of the TB (in the closed position). So you cannot change the walls where the butterfly closes. GSGoinFast was right. You can only take out the "hump" (but that will cost you nothing but labor)

Oh yeah, SnooplySLR, maybe the reason they say that you should never play with the injector humps is because this is an area where you can grind through if you are not very careful. Behind the injector hump there is a close spot and you need to have a certain amount of structure for your injector seals. Otherwise, you can have it so thin that you can push you injectors through the intake when installing.

 

[BigRand]

Okay for us Newbies around here, could someone tell me exactly what I have to walk into the shop with and tell them. (The shop that I go to knows what they are doing, and I'd like to walk in friday morning, and leave with my car on sunday night.) I walk in and tell them to port & Polish and knife edge my intake manifold and bore my throttle body to 55, 56, or 57mm. I bring in stock intake gaskets so they can gasket match.

Did I get in right?

What else?

 

[flashy]

What is this 60mm Jeep hybrid? If that worked out well I may consider doing that.

 

[bullettdsm]

BigRand, pretty much got it right. If the shop knows what they are doing they WILL ask you for your choice on TB port size. That's for you to decide. Also, the knife edge is relatively new, that I know of (fellas correct me if I am wrong). They may not understand what that is. If you understand dr1665's second explanation (that seemed to be the clearest to me), you may be able to explain it to the shop. If you don't understand and they don't, I would shy away. It is not absolutely necessary. You should get plenty of power off the P + P and TB port.

As for the Jeep hybrid, follow this link for a set of install directions (pretty good). www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html If that link doesn't work, you can find it on search. Sleepy, if you decide to do it, feel free to e-mail me if you get stuck.
MB

 

[flashy]

thanks for the link

was there a noticable gain after this mod?

 

[speedy13]

hte jeep 60 mmtb is a great cheap alternative to buying an expensive brand name tb.i did the tb first and ran like that for about 8 months or so,but if you really wanna take advantage of this mod you want to port your IM at the same time.i then ported my manny,and that's when you feel your car breathing alot more freer specially at top end.you might loose alittle low end but who cares.i port matched the plenum to 60 mm and then gasket matched on the head side.I myself was very iffy on touching the injector seats so all i did there was smoothed it out and took off as less material as possible.but this is a great mod for anybdy specially if you plan on spraying or boosting later.as far as the jeep tb,you might expirience a couple of idling problems but nothing too bad if you don't mind your cel on.mine used to turn on and off because the car idled between 1000 and 1600 rpms sometimes and the iac was fully closed.a return spring helped thid situation out but didn't fully solve the problem.in y opinion this is a great mod worth every second or penny depending if you do it yourself or pay someone to do it.if you are gonna do it yorself you bette do some yoga or something cuz youre gonna need alot of patience dough.peace and let us know how it turned out.