Ok Guys..Time to vote please. Short or Long Route Piping??

[13secGST]

Originally posted by kpt4321
Wrong.

Each cylinder fires once every 2 revs, which means that in 2 revs the motor has fired each cylinder once, and in 4 revs it has fired each cylinder twice.

One rev means 360 degrees of crank rotation, when means that all of the pistons come to TDC. Half of them fire.

God damnit...I knew I was messing up some where...I thought about it for a while to and wasn't sure. But it that case it would just make my "theory" that much more true.

Short routes benifits are looks, and less clutter, and less bends(normally)...not faster spool-up...and that it probably normally flows better.

 

[krustindumm]

Theoretically it could help spool up. Short route will reduce the internal volume of the charge pipes. Like staying w/ 2" charge pipe on a civic because 3" would increase lag, but less noticeable because the volume change is less severe.

-Dustin

 

[doug]

A buddy of mine rode in my car, and then immediately in another guy's car that has a very similar setup to mine except he has a Big Greddy FMIC (with long route piping) and he said he could tell a difference in spool with just the T-25 (I'm still on the stock SMIC). Not very scientific, I realize, but I figured I'd throw that out there.

 

[13secGST]

yeh...well, that should be the case, I think...you still have T25 Doug...sorry man, now without quick reply, I click "reply now" and am to lazy to go back and check profiles.

Intercoolers do effect spool up...thats has to do with shape, bends, flow direction, end tanks....because they also effect pressure drop. Stock SMIC's are so small they have little pressure drop and very little volume...so you will spool up faster...kinda contradicts my earlier statement...but they are slightly different principles that I don't fully understand, I just accept them.

I don't remeber if I mentioned this before, but my Short Route piping is 2.5" mendral

 

[95GST]

I got rid of my greddy FMIC and changed to a side to side + short route piping, must have saved like 6 feet of piping at least.

Now pipe goes out the throttle body and go almost straight down to where the overflow bottle was, much cleaner looking, instead of the S bends all around the fuse box.

It seems when piping is much shorter the BOV has much less air to vent so it becomes quieter. With the greddy setup it was crazy loud..

 

[doug]

Originally posted by 13secGST
you still have T25 Doug...sorry man, now without quick reply, I click "reply now" and am to lazy to go back and check profiles.

Yeah, both me and the other guy have: T-25, intake, exhaust, MBC set at 15, UICP w/BOV, auto trannies, FWD, no fuel control (although I have a -6AN fuel line from filter to rail). Like I mentioned, the only real difference is that he has the big FMIC.

 

[Ludachris]

I believe that less piping will always be better than more piping. The shortest distance to the throttle body will always win out. Now, the only way to test this of course is to try both on the same car with the same setup. I doubt that many people have done this. Trying to test two different cars won't tell you anything. There's too many other factors involved, and we all know the golden rule - all cars are different.

Personally, I like shorter pipe routes - I think it looks better, takes up less space, and it's overall more efficient to push air through a shorter distance of pipe. With that said, it's also a good deal more work to install on a 1G (not sure about a 2G). So the longer pipe route will be better suited for those who want more of a bolt-on affair and are weary of cutting and rerouting things.

 

[jake98gst]

Look here. I live in the same area as that guy. I am familiar with that same shop. And I'm interested in...that's right...the same setup. I will already have an ADFX uicp so it would cost at most $750. Would this setup suffice for a 2g FWD (a/t) with goals of 12s (with some sort of 16g)??

Or should I just save up for short route piping?

Thanks,
Jake

 

[Oreopride18]

Yea; but occasionally you're "forced" to go long route to use a bigger intercooler.

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/473571/4

 

[dsmturboawd]

Originally posted by doug
The only reason to go with long route piping, that I can see, is that if you already have a UICP and BOV combo you're in love with and don't want to get rid of it.

just make that cbv [bov] work.

 

[jake98gst]

Originally posted by Oreopride18
Yea; but occasionally you're "forced" to go long route to use a bigger intercooler.

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/473571/4

Holy sh!t That thing is goddamn titanic!!! That thing could probably cool off a raging 50 psi. Isn't there some pressure drop with a IC that enormous?

Jake

 

[Oreopride18]

It's a bar and plate so the pressure drop is around 1psi; despite the size. The benefits faaaar outweigh the PD.

 

[dsmturboawd]

that ic is retardly overkilled.

 

[Oreopride18]

that ic is retardly overkilled.

Explain your "retardly" reasoning.

 

[V8BWARE]

I'd like to bring up JUST IN CASE, if youre A/T and you have a factory transmission cooler, be forewarned that most "short route" kits require it to be relocated because it is in the way of the hot pipe (the one that wraps around the driver's side of the radiator. most of these kits do not mention this, so be prepared to relocate (or upgrade) that tranny cooler and add that to the cost. FYI most of these kits also reqire slim fans to clear the Ic piping, and an upgraded radiator because the humongous cores these kits have can comprimise flow to the already small stock radiatior. keep in mind these pieces are not always included. add up the cost of all the items required for your short route FMIC of choice,then decide if a short route kit is right for you.

 

[doug]

Originally posted by V8BWARE
if youre A/T and you have a factory transmission cooler, be forewarned that most "short route" kits require it to be relocated

Good point. If you're A/T and getting a front mount, though, I would hope that you either already have an upgraded and relocated tranny cooler, or will be doing that at the same time.

A popular spot for the A/T cooler is in the spot where the stock SMIC was. I'm getting the tranny cooler first (still have the stock side mount), so I'm gonna have to put it on the driver's side, at least for now. Then I can relocate it to the old SMIC spot (for shorter hose routing as well)when the FMIC (with short route pipes) goes in sometime down the road.

 

[jake98gst]

Is installing a new tranny cooler just extending lines and bolting up the cooler? What brand and size cooler do you recommend?

Jake

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

short route piping is much better then the long stock location.
the stock location of the piping is short route piping, but its the shortest route to and from the stock sidemount, which you have obviously gotten rid of. the only reason people buy that horrible long piping for an fmic is because they bought an uicp when they still had a stock sidemount and dont want to buy another uicp.

short rount piping will help spoil up time, flow better since it has less bends, and yeild alot less air being stuck in the piping for the bov to vent. and yes, the bov will be quieter, me and my friend with a 96 fwd tsi both run a 1g bov. he has a greddy big fmic with long stock location piping, and his bov loud as hell while being recirculated. i run a smaller fmic with short rout piping and my bov is much quieter

if you have the money to get short route piping made then you should get it, it will help you in the long run. i certainly cant think of a reason to push your engines air through 5 or 6 feet of unnessicary piping, all that will do is make lag when yuou run a decent sized turbo

the absolute only problem i have with my piping is that i think the LICP will hit my fans when i install my fluidyne radiator next week

 

[BigLGST]

.....the only thing short route piping will give you if anything is like braggin rights....Im not sayin that short route piping isnt better but its not worth the hype people give it. Its not a BIG NEED or something like people make it seem, I mean just look at all the ppl that have the longer pipes, you dont see them NOT hitting 12s or low times. My point is that if you get the long route piping its not going to hold you back from hitting low times. Short route is nice does help but its not a big difference. A big difference is AFC vs. DSMLink. I think there is very little noticeable difference between short vs long route

 

[doug]

Jake, I'll send you a PM so I don't hijack the thread too badly.

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

on a mildly modified set up thats completly true. a good comparsion is a cat in your exhaust, having a high flow cat isnt going to stop you from hitting a good time, and removing yoiur cat isnt going to give you a big noticable diference in power, but it really doesnt need to be there. same goes for all those extra feet of ic piping, it wolnt hurt your performance much, but getting rid of it will help a little in the long run.
just like a 3" exhaust vs a 2.5, alot of peoples set ups are fine with a 2.5, but in the long run you will end up wishing you had gotten the 3" in the first place instead of speding the money again when u realize you want it

its really just about cost, most people goals wolnt really need short route piping. you certainly wolnt need it to hit a 12, and 11s should be very possible with long piping and the right set up and tuning. and most of those same people bought a uicp when they still had a stock sidemount, instead of getting short route with the fmic, so they dont want to spend the hundread it will cost for the new piping

im stuck with the short route cause i have an ic that looks identical to the rnr fmic at the top of the page, end tanks inlet/outlet points straight back so i have to run the piping. but i certainly wouldnt want long piping instead, iv had a 1g with it and my friends 2g has it, and it doesnt feel the same. short route certainly doesnt make a noticable difference in power, its more about the response and spoil up time.