oil catch can [Merge]

[Rice Burner]

I just ordered my intake and K & N filter from Dejon and now I'm looking for a Catch Can. Does anyone know where I can get one of these? I have looked on some web sites with no luck, with the exception of (i think) Machv for $99.

Any help would be appreciated.

Also does anyone know if any one sells the rubber window trim that goes on the door for the window. You know the one at the top of the main part of the door on the outside. The black coating has pealed off and looks pretty bad.

Thanks in advance!

 

[bojanglesracing]

You can make one i saw it here some where try a search

 

[EclipseTical]

all you need is a fuel filter, nothing shiny and expensive.

http://www.tgilmore.com/talon/catchcan.html

 

[Black94DSM]

Yep you can make it, although its kinda ugly.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212235

you can take that concept and make a cleaner looking version.

 

[DGajre777]

www.roadraceengineering.com, www.slowboyracing.com, www.jmfabrications.com or ebay.

 

[a_scobel]

all you need is a fuel filter, nothing shiny and expensive.

http://www.tgilmore.com/talon/catchcan.html

Yep...although it says you can dump the oil out..I have no idea how though, I've tried..didn't work. So I just buy a new one every couple months..they're only like 3 bucks. Maybe you can pretty it up a little? Wrap it in aluminum foil..I dunno. haha.

 

[Xplicit93AWD]

Wow alot of new information that i learned thanks alot. So what i should do let me get this right. Valve cover to one side of the rre catch can and the other side to the pvc valve since i have a vpc i am running a 3in hard intake pipe so i have no entry for the hose there.My setp should be

Valve cover------> catch can------> pcv------->intake manifold

And how would i tap into the pvc line since it so big and what size hose should i use for both sides of the catch can ? If you can help out with this "old man it would be helpful. And "madman thanks for all your help in asking those great questions

 

[oldman]

And how would i tap into the pvc line since it so big and what size hose should i use for both sides of the catch can ? If you can help out with this "old man it would be helpful. And "madman thanks for all your help in asking those great questions

In your situation, leave the pcv side alone in its stock form and do the following,

1. Remove the filter on the can and cap off the fitting.

2. Tap or weld a 1/4" fitting on your intake pipe.

3. Reroute the second fitting on the catch can back to the intake pipe.

 

[Xplicit93AWD]

Ok i can tap into the intake pipe no problem but wouldn't that put oil in my piping and all in my FMIC. I always thought that was a bad idea to do ?? But i guess i can always be mistaken.

 

[oldman]

Ok i can tap into the intake pipe no problem but wouldn't that put oil in my piping and all in my FMIC. I always thought that was a bad idea to do ?? But i guess i can always be mistaken

Most of the blow by will end up on the bottom of the catch can though a minute amount will still get through which brings us all the way back to the top of the thread.

Okay, So My question is, before I seal it up. Should I put somthing inside it? I've read about people putting steel wool, or cotton in them. Or is putting somthing in it unnessisary?

2: The purpose of the steel wool or similar material is to encourage oil particles suspended in the air to cling to the steel wool instead of passing through the catch can and right into the intake. It sounds like you are not rerouting anyway so there is no purpose for you.

 

[Xplicit93AWD]

Ok so now i know i will tap the intake pipe and put some wool or cotton or somethin in the catch can so that not alot of oil goes into the piping ... thank you for your assistance and being so patient with me.

 

[mavisky]

For future reference:

Road Race catch can install instructions

Building your own pvc catchcan from pvc

Taboo Speed Shops installation diagram

 

[madman]

For future reference:

Road Race catch can install instructions

Building your own pvc catchcan from pvc

Taboo Speed Shops installation diagram

Those instructions lead to a lot of the confusion , with exception to the Taboo link.

Maybe they should just stick to the info in this tread. It pretty much covered it all.

The title of this thread should be changed to "You should read this if you have a catch can", because I'm betting their are a lot of cars out their using filters that are allowing unmettered air into their system, or people like me that had them VTA, mainly because of those links.

 

[Spoolin98]

So which setup is better? Pros and Cons?

The taboo speed shop diagram? (No pcv valve, Intake and Manifold Plugged)
Do you run this setup with a filter or no? I assume Yes.

or

Bruce's Setup (2 Catch Cans 1 w/pcv valve, no filters)

Valve Cover ------> Catch Can w/ attached PCV----->Intake Manifold
Valve Cover ------> Catch Can -------> Intake Pipe

Am I understanding this correctly?
Also from what I read here, I am assuming putting just a filter on the valve cover is bad also because under vacuum it will suck in unfiltered/unmetered air?

 

[madman]

The taboo speed shop diagram? (No pcv valve, Intake and Manifold Plugged)
Do you run this setup with a filter or no? I assume Yes.

Yes, you would need a filter on that setup.

I personaly would like to have the Taboo/RRE PCV setup beacuse I'm about to install a new turbo with a new FMIC and I ported and cleaned an extra intake manifold to go with a 1g TB, so I don't want to get all my new clean parts filthy with oil residue and build up.

The problem is that I have a GREDDY catch can so it doesn't have a filter. So I would say oldman's/Bruce's setup would be second best. Maybe I'm just to anal about the possibility of oil bypassing the catch can. Plus I didn't have much room for the one catch can I installed let alone a second one.

Well I guess either way I need another catch can.......

I'll get the RRE catch can and do the Taboo/RRE setup and just sell my GREDDY.

Also from what I read here, I am assuming putting just a filter on the valve cover is bad also because under vacuum it will suck in unfiltered/unmetered air?

Yes, unless you had the PCV disabled and not circualting to the intake manifold.

Bad thing is you get a lot of oily film all over the engine bay with just a filter.

 

[mavisky]

Sorry, I sometimes forget to consider those still on stock mafs. My car will be setup like the Taboo diagram, but if I were to use the RRE setup it'd still read the air once it hits the maft.

 

[Spoolin98]

Thanks for the input guys, but I would still like to know which is the more effective setup and why?

 

[oldman]

Thanks for the input guys, but I would still like to know which is the more effective setup and why?

Re-routing will be more efficient as far as ventilation is concern but in a healthy motor environment, either case should be fine. With an older motor where valve seals and rings are no longer operating at their optimal level, I strongly suggest re-route instead of VTA so you get the pull from pcv under vacuum and turbo under boost. Either way, make sure you empty the can/cans regularly.

if I were to use the RRE setup it'd still read the air once it hits the maft.

The second option of the RRE set up is the Taboo setup where both the breather and pcv are VTA through the catch can. The problem however is with the first set up where only the breather is vented, at idle and part throttle, unmetered air will enter the intake tract through catch can => pcv => intake manifold. Using stock maf vs. GM maf/maft will have no impact on this.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I've read through this entire topic and one thing still doesn't make sence. FYI, I have the RRE catch can hooked to the breather with the other end capped off exactly as they instructed for a street car, the PCV side is all stock.

How is running a vented breather side catch can bad for the engine because of unmetered air, but yet replacing the stock breather tube with an open filter is one of the basic suggested mods?? I'm just not getting it. Either way, according to oldman, the PCV is going to suck unmetered air, be it directly through a little filter, or through a big filter on the catch can.

Also, the point of the RRE style catch can is to keep the blow by from either, A: being shot into the intake tube is stock form, or B: being sprayed all over the engine bay with an open filter. If you use a recirc catch can going to the stock intake tube location, you might be catching most of the oil, but you're still getting exhaust and other crap blown back into the intake tube. That's the whole point of leaving it VTA.

If a VTA breather side catch can or a breather filter really is an open vacuum leak, that's a MASSIVE vacuum leak. I find it hard to believe that everyones' cars still idle and run fine with that big of a vacuum leak. I don't know about anyone else, but if I disconnent my PCV vacuum line, the engine barely runs. And yet you're telling me that the PCV is already a vacuum leak. Putting my finger over the breather nipple in the valve cover to stop the supposed vacuum leak does absolutely nothing.WTF Please explain...??

 

[Spoolin98]

Thanks Bruce.

 

[oldman]

How is running a vented breather side catch can bad for the engine because of unmetered air, but yet replacing the stock breather tube with an open filter is one of the basic suggested mods?? I'm just not getting it. Either way, according to oldman, the PCV is going to suck unmetered air, be it directly through a little filter, or through a big filter on the catch can.

Running a VTA catch can and a open filter is no different. I have never advice someone to put a filter on the breather valve, to me it's a short cut.

If you use a recirc catch can going to the stock intake tube location, you might be catching most of the oil, but you're still getting exhaust and other crap blown back into the intake tube. That's the whole point of leaving it VTA.

Isn't this the whole point of this thread, will steel wool reduce the amount of blowby that passes through the can?

I plan to have it set up so there is a line comming from the valve cover, then to the catch can, then back to the intake pipe prior to the turbo. I am only doing this to prevent oil from getting into my IC pipes. That is why I was wondering if I should but some sort of fulter media inside the catch can. (ie. steel wool) Im basing the catch can off of the $$$ greddy catch cans or the like the one off of RRE

If a VTA breather side catch can or a breather filter really is an open vacuum leak, that's a MASSIVE vacuum leak. I find it hard to believe that everyones' cars still idle and run fine with that big of a vacuum leak. I don't know about anyone else, but if I disconnent my PCV vacuum line, the engine barely runs. And yet you're telling me that the PCV is already a vacuum leak. Putting my finger over the breather nipple in the valve cover to stop the supposed vacuum leak does absolutely nothing.WTF Please explain...??

Are you saying that at idle or low rpm coasting, the amount of blow by exceeds the ability of the pcv to draw air with -20+ inHG behind it? If this is the case with you, your pcv valve must be stuck or your rings are shot. The BREATHER valve is a two way street, or it would have been called a ventilation valve instead. Whether or not you can feel it is not what is being disscussed here as it has already been state several times that you probably won't notice it without proper logging device, what is being talked about is what is the best crankcase venting route.

1: You should not have a catch can vent to the atmosphere. People will disagree, but this allows un-metered air into the system. You may never "feel" a difference, but in DSMLink when I tried this I could see that the ECU's airflow readings were off.

Technically they are wrong if you get down to it but realistically the difference is probably insignificant to majority,

 

[oldman]

Thanks Bruce.

You're welcome.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

So I guess your name is bruce... I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just not getting it.

You're saying the PCV is going to draw unmetered air at idle etc with a breather filter or VTA catch can on the breather inlet. So in stock form, wouldn't the blow by that the PCV is sucking in also be unmetered air? The way I'm hearing it, you're saying that a breather/VTA catch can is an open vacuum leak. My point was that that's a BIG vacuum leak. Which is why I brought up the example of disconneting the PCV line to see what a PCV sized vacuum leak would do to the idle. Since you said its drawing unmetered air through my breather inlet, I said that putting my finger over the inlet to stop it drawing that air had no effect on idle. So why is it that a PCV sized vacuum leak (shown by disconneting the line) has a huge effect on idle, but my supposed VTA breather catch can sucking unmetered air has zero effect on the idle quality.

 

[oldman]

So I guess your name is bruce... I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just not getting it.

There is nothing wrong with a technical discussion but there is a difference between "not getting it" and "disagreeing with it", your body language tells me the later. If you disagree with what I have posted, you should bring more than just "I don't feel the difference when I block the breather off" to the table. You continue to ask me to prove my point but yet you have done nothing to prove yours, you keep asking me questions which has been answered many times yet you refuse to answer any of my questions.

You're saying the PCV is going to draw unmetered air at idle etc with a breather filter or VTA catch can on the breather inlet. So in stock form, wouldn't the blow by that the PCV is sucking in also be unmetered air?

No, because blow by is already factored into the system and compensated for in the stock form, a VTA catch can isn't.

The way I'm hearing it, you're saying that a breather/VTA catch can is an open vacuum leak. My point was that that's a BIG vacuum leak. Which is why I brought up the example of disconneting the PCV line to see what a PCV sized vacuum leak would do to the idle. Since you said its drawing unmetered air through my breather inlet, I said that putting my finger over the inlet to stop it drawing that air had no effect on idle. So why is it that a PCV sized vacuum leak (shown by disconneting the line) has a huge effect on idle, but my supposed VTA breather catch can sucking unmetered air has zero effect on the idle quality.

Either you lack the understanding of the crankcase ventilation system or you're purposely leaving out one obvious factor, blow by, for your own argument sake. How can you possibly expect the same results between blocking off the pcv and blocking off the breather as if blow by doesn't exist.

Let's see if we can put this one to bed for good.

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h63.pdf

I will quote the part that is relevent to this discussion but I think you should read the whole article anyway.

PCV System Effects on Emissions and Driveability

Because PCV operation is factored into the proper operation of the feedback control system, problems with the PCV system may disrupt the normal air/fuel ratio balance. A plugged PCV valve will prevent the normal flow of crankcase vapors into the engine and can result in richer than normal air/fuel mixture. A Plugged crancase breather hose may cause the engine to consume oil because of the increase level of crankcase vacuum.

If PCV doesn't draw in air from the breather, why will there be an increase in vacuum or any vacuum in the crankcase if you plug the breather valve?

 

[Dave_Hash]

Does it matter if you get a name brand oil catch can? Like the ones on ebay, will they work as well as the greddy?

 

[ECLIPSE95]

I didn't run a fancy oil catch can in my old tsi...a regular one will do just fine...the greddy one is too flashy In my opinion, which makes the price higher because its a brand name...