1G No start car issue

[enriquez2000]

I hate coming here as I usually figure this stuff out for others.

Car sat all winter
Drained e85
Put in fresh e85
Car cranks and occasionally backfires
Verified spark
Plugs were wet so replaced and even tried starter fluid to get it going
Compression checked out at 150 on all 4 with the Harbor Freight tester.
Verified IAT, ECT and MAP have expected values.

Spark seems more orange than blue, wondering if this 33yr old coil have finally gone weak

Not sure where to go next. If injectors were clogged starter fluid would still have ran for a second or 2

Need to step back and fight the urge to give it away . So hoping I'm missing something stupid

 

[enriquez2000]

Still struggling...

Replaced PTU
Replaced coil pack

Can't get this thing to fire. What do you think about a bad CAS?

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[Adam]

Fuel pump turning on during cranking?
I had a similar issue from a bad cas. The lack of signal to run the pump is what clued me into it.

 

[steve]

Can we see a log?
Did the quality of your spark improve by changing the PTU and Coils?

 

[enriquez2000]

Can we see a log?
Did the quality of your spark improve by changing the PTU and Coils?

Let me grab a log today and ill upload. The spark seems about the same. Part of me hopes the tune corrupted and Im just missing something.

As for fuel pump it pegs the 43.5 as soon as I crank.

 

[enriquez2000]

here is the log. I noticed when I tried to start on just the battery it was acting like it was having a hard time even with 12 volts spinning the motor. I put it on the jump box and it spun but still only stumbles.

Hopefully you see something that I am missing

 

[steve]

Check the hose to your MAP sensor and its wiring. It's not showing normal vacuum while you’re cranking.

Peddling the throttle isn't going to help it start and I would think you’re almost 10ms IPW with those huge injectors even on E85 is a lot of fuel for a couple hundred RPM.

AFRatioEST hits 4.9:1 and 2.8:1 while you’re doing that. I bet the plugs are wet again.

Wideband reads 18.3:1 the whole time, that doesn't sound right either.

I wonder if mice haven't attacked.

 

[enriquez2000]

Check the hose to your MAP sensor and its wiring. It's not showing normal vacuum while you’re cranking.

Peddling the throttle isn't going to help it start and I would think you’re almost 10ms IPW with those huge injectors even on E85 is a lot of fuel for a couple hundred RPM.

AFRatioEST hits 4.9:1 and 2.8:1 while you’re doing that. I bet the plugs are wet again.

Wideband reads 18.3:1 the whole time, that doesn't sound right either.

I wonder if mice haven't attacked.

The wideband goes into warmup mode for some reason when cranking... i figured thats the reason.

MaP was suggested by a friend so I have a spare im going to try.

My fear is you might be right about mice. Itll be under dash if so.... let the fun begin.

Ill report back with map and cas... luckily my friends shop specializes in dsm and evos so its all available to try before digging into the dash

 

[enriquez2000]

@steve heres a new log... the wideband is staying engaged the whole time. I put in this gm style 4 bar to test the map(it could still be questionable), What vacuum should the car be seeing at cranking.

If feels like it wants to start so bad it just wont catch. I also visually looked at wiring and no mouse nests or anything that looks like chewed up wires.

I still have a cas I can swap out but from my understanding a bad cas means no fuel or spark. It has both(at least some because it stumbles and I have to clean the plugs after enough attempts)

Anything you see that Im missing. Not going to lie I loved this car and daily drove it for years and now that its become more of a street racer its been a ton of problems. May be time to de-race it

 

[steve]

So before you start cranking the MAP should measure 0 psi or inHG and your says -6.1. With your mods and Ft. Collins altitude I don't have any idea what your cranking vacuum should look like but I know it shouldn't be the same as when you're not cranking. Since your running SD everything depends on a valid MAP signal and it doesn't look like you have one.

 

[enriquez2000]

So before you start cranking the MAP should measure 0 psi or inHG and your says -6.1. With your mods and Ft. Collins altitude I don't have any idea what your cranking vacuum should look like but I know it shouldn't be the same as when you're not cranking. Since your running SD everything depends on a valid MAP signal and it doesn't look like you have one.

the gauge itself shows -5(ish) with key on and I think it goes to -7 when cranking.

Ive heard these gm sensors go bad often if the nipple doesnt point down.

That would sure be an easy fix

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[DSMPT]

Hard to tell by only that video, but I can hear and see that the mechanical valve timing seems to be off, like at least cams are about 3 teeth out of phase. Should double check for the timing.

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[enriquez2000]

Hard to tell by only that video, but I can hear and see that the mechanical valve timing seems to be off, like at least cams are about 3 teeth out of phase. Should double check for the timing.

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It ran fine before winter... not sure how it would be out of time now. But who knows

I unplugged the map and no gauge change just stayed -6 so might be a gauge issue since that sends the reading to link.

 

[pauleyman]

Hard to tell by only that video, but I can hear and see that the mechanical valve timing seems to be off, like at least cams are about 3 teeth out of phase. Should double check for the timing.

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If this is a still shot the timing is definately off. First order is correct it and run a leakdown.

 

[DSMPT]

It ran fine before winter... not sure how it would be out of time now. But who knows

Could be the timing jumped or so for some reason. Since we can't see the crank position in the video, we can't tell how much amount exactly off, but anyways at least it seems 3 cam gear teeth out of phase in that video. That's we can say for sure.

 

[enriquez2000]

If this is a still shot the timing is definately off. First order is correct it and run a leakdown.

It was a video and its not at top dead center at all

Heres a better view of cams... ill have to get it in the air for aligning the crank

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[DSMPT]

It was a video and its not at top dead center at all

That screen shot is from your video. Doesn't matter if it was at TDC or not to check the cam phase.

Heres a better view of cams... ill have to get it in the air for aligning the crank

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Assuming that those white markers on cam gears are the factory horizontal timing marks, I could confirm it more clearly. Your timing is off. The cam phase is off by 3 teeth. This means the valve timing is at least off by 3 cam gear teeth, but could be more, depending on the crank/piston position.

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[pauleyman]

It was a video and its not at top dead center at all

Doesn't matter. Cam gears always travel aligned. You can see at a glance they're not together. Thats kind of unclear...imagine when the number 1 is at TDC the gears point straight up. So whatever position one is in the other is in the exact same position. You can clearly see they are not. It has jumped time.

Heres a better view of cams... ill have to get it in the air for aligning the crank

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Btw stop trying to start it. You'll be lucky if the valves aren't bent.

 

[steve]

That might answer why the compression numbers are so low given he's got 10.5:1 Wiseco's. I scratched my head a bit at first but wrote it off to altitude, being a cold engine, and maybe big cams.

 

[enriquez2000]

Well I can't get the marks to line up with crank at TDC, not sure how it happened. It went in timed perfectly and drove fine until it sat.

I'll have to dig into it and hope the valves survived. The Harbor Freight gauge notoriously reads 10psi low so I didn't think about the compression.

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[steve]

The Harbor Freight gauge notoriously reads 10psi low so I didn't think about the compression.

There was that too, plus backfiring usually means timing issues on a normal car.

 

[enriquez2000]

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Solid mounts vibrated this loose.. use copious loctite with solid mounts!

 

[enriquez2000]

Someone was watching out for me. Re-did timing kit and now 180psi and 5 percent leakdown.... i got lucky! Dont know how but now we can say we have seen it!

 

[enriquez2000]

We are fully alive now... Fuel Injector Clinic also fixed up my injectors and read to street tune

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