New to me turbo now AWD Talon runs bad

[MKETURBOLASER]

Sorry if there is a repeat to this but i rather be typing this than outside smashing my car with a sledge hammer right now Just a heads up all mods done to my car are current in my profile.

OK so when i got my car it ran horribly I switched out my ecu with a good one and it worked great, but the car came with a turbo that was shot very bad in and out play on the shaft but the car ran good to my surprise but i didnt drive it more than a few blocks to the gas station a few times. So recently i got a 14b turbo in very good condition but the bolt were broken in every spot so being a broke college kid i just welded everything together and now my car runs like ass. NO oil leaking from turbo just a fyi. every great once in awhile when the car was running with the bad turbo my CEL would turn on and sometimes it would never turn on so i just blew it off.

Sorry just giving background info ^

Heres my problem now

1. Car struggled horribly to start once it would stumble and sputter and die but eventually start and hold idle.
2.I attempt to reverse out of my garage the engine sputters and is struggles out of my garage after the sputter and what not drives smooth. When i let off the gas pedal it dies. So I return to step 1.
3.After it finally start I pull back into my garage with the same symptoms as step 2.
4.After getting pissed i let the car sit for about a hour and it starts with not a problem in the world , i back out of my garage just fine get to the street and attempt to drive off and I get the symptoms of step one again minus the the car dieing so i drive it around the block back to my garage and there it sits and here i am not beating the shit out of my car or anybody who talks to me.

What i am not understanding is how did my car run with a junk turbo and now with a good one it runs horrid as i said before my mods to the car are in my profile and any advice is great, I have an idea of what might be wrong but getting opinions also *havent done a boost leak test all my couplers and clamps are good (t clamps) my timing is off by a tooth Im getting spark on all cylinders and i hear my fuel pump turning on. Also i didnt entirely bolt my downpipe on cause i threw away one of the nuts for the flange accidently but i've made custom exhaust out my front bumper before and my car ran fine so i dont think that should matter but maybe Any question for me just ask ill and if you drop some advice for me it would be appreciated

 

[WES_393]

my timing is off by a tooth

Here is part of, if not the entire problem. Your timing belt can't be off at all or the car will run like hell. Why it runs decent every now and then is beyond me, but I'll bet that's the biggest issue right there.

The condition of the turbo won't effect the cars running condition so long as your not boosting. The turbo could be completely locked up and the car should still start and run fine until you try to boost. Also, it's important that the O2 housing be sealed completely otherwise the pulsing of exhaust gasses at idle will draw air into the exhaust and throw off the O2 sensors.

 

[MKETURBOLASER]

so looks like im re doing timing and by sealing off your saying check my welds for leaks? , because there is a small leak where the top 4 bolts hold the turbo to the manifold.

 

[wrencher]

What exactly would be welded to put it back together???
Agreed the down pipe needs to be bolted up.

 

[MKETURBOLASER]

i welded the turbo flange to the exhaust manifold flange and tack welded the 4 long bolts in place that hold the turbo to the manifold because they couldn't be threaded in because there were bolts snapped in there already (on the turbo)

 

[WES_393]

so looks like im re doing timing and by sealing off your saying check my welds for leaks? , because there is a small leak where the top 4 bolts hold the turbo to the manifold.

Yes, thats what I'm saying. A bad turbo to O2 housing gasket will make a front O2 sensor go nuts. And as I'm sure you know, the front O2 sensor is the main source of rich/lean readings for the ECU. If air is getting in, it think your running super lean and will start dumping fuel into the engine till it sees a reaction.

I'd reccomend getting the bolts out and installing the O2 housing properly. Welding them together will give you nothing but problems.

 

[MKETURBOLASER]

Thats what i thought you were saying, i was sure that that the housing is sealed up good but it might not be like you said ill just have to give that a look

 

[bryanwheat]

So you completely welded the turbo to the manifold and o2 housing to the turbo or did you just tack it on there? This is in no way acceptable. When you rig stuff up you are asking for troubles.

 

[MKETURBOLASER]

So you completely welded the turbo to the manifold and o2 housing to the turbo or did you just tack it on there? This is in no way acceptable. When you rig stuff up you are asking for troubles.

yes to all i couldnt extract the bolts and have welded turbos on before and it worked fine but not this time * only tacking done was to hold the 4 bolts in place as a seal

 

[bryanwheat]

Well there is obviously something else wrong if it is running that bad. The turbo can be completely not working at all and the car will start and run just fine. You likely have an issue with the maf, leak in intake pipe or big leak in intercooler piping somewhere.

 

[WES_393]

Well there is obviously something else wrong if it is running that bad.

Something bad as in the timing belt being one tooth off?

also *havent done a boost leak test all my couplers and clamps are good (t clamps) my timing is off by a tooth Im getting spark on all cylinders and i hear my fuel pump turning on.

In all honesty, until the timing belt issue is solved there is now way to tell if anything else is wrong.

 

[turboglenn]

Well there is obviously something else wrong if it is running that bad. The turbo can be completely not working at all and the car will start and run just fine. You likely have an issue with the maf, leak in intake pipe or big leak in intercooler piping somewhere.

I have to agree, sounds like some things may have been left unplugged,installed incorrectly or something, maybe the MAF isnt' plugged in *shrugs* but either way the car doesn't look at the front 02 when it's first started (for so much amount of time I believe) and even if it did there's values in the ECU that it uses when the 02 sensor is bad so you can still drive, there's got to be something else unplugged or hooked up wrong

 

[WES_393]

Wow, so much reading fail in this thread. Seriously.

 

[bryanwheat]

Wow, so much reading fail in this thread. Seriously.

I don't think that is the case, i think that other people are looking at other possibilities other than the timing belt being off one tooth BECAUSE the problem is intermittent. Yes the belt off one tooth can make the engine run bad, BUT, it will run bad all the time, not just every now and then. It also ran fine like that with the old turbo, but after installing the new one it runs bad.

 

[1997_GSX]

You could have had the broken studs / bolts extracted at a machine shop for maybe $40.

 

[MKETURBOLASER]

I don't think that is the case, i think that other people are looking at other possibilities other than the timing belt being off one tooth BECAUSE the problem is intermittent. Yes the belt off one tooth can make the engine run bad, BUT, it will run bad all the time, not just every now and then. It also ran fine like that with the old turbo, but after installing the new one it runs bad.

I have to agree, sounds like some things may have been left unplugged,installed incorrectly or something, maybe the MAF isnt' plugged in *shrugs* but either way the car doesn't look at the front 02 when it's first started (for so much amount of time I believe) and even if it did there's values in the ECU that it uses when the 02 sensor is bad so you can still drive, there's got to be something else unplugged or hooked up wrong

everything is plugged in only way it wouldnt be plugged in is if it rattled loose some how or someone else unplugged it. And i remember hearing about the o2 not reading right away in my mechanics class

Well there is obviously something else wrong if it is running that bad. The turbo can be completely not working at all and the car will start and run just fine. You likely have an issue with the maf, leak in intake pipe or big leak in intercooler piping somewhere.

Going to get a can of carb cleaner and start spraying stuff after school to check for leaks, If some thing was wrong with my maf wouldnt it have been acting up before

 

[dsm_92_fwd]

Something bad as in the timing belt being one tooth off?





In all honesty, until the timing belt issue is solved there is now way to tell if anything else is wrong.

I would personally pray for the head of the car. Beeing that its an estimated "tooth" off that gives the valves incorrect timing with the rotating mass and that could be bad news.... But on the bright side it could be just off to where no chance of valvetrain damage could be an issue

 

[MKETURBOLASER]

You could have had the broken studs / bolts extracted at a machine shop for maybe $40.

didnt know that

I would personally pray for the head of the car. Beeing that its an estimated "tooth" off that gives the valves incorrect timing with the rotating mass and that could be bad news.... But on the bright side it could be just off to where no chance of valvetrain damage could be an issue

, I already had 2 laser's bang valves

 

[dsm_92_fwd]

Going to get a can of carb cleaner and start spraying stuff after school to check for leaks, If some thing was wrong with my maf wouldnt it have been acting up before

Most of the time that i have seen if the maf isnt plugged in the car will refuse to run, however if its just dirty it can be a contributing factor. Kind of like the 3" GM maf General Motors put in everything... Those get a little dirty and the car will run like poo

Also while its fresh in my head. Do you know how to manually check timing? By rotating the crank 6 times and seeing if all matches? Not assuming just making sure (its my guess thats how you figure it was a tooth off)

 

[MKETURBOLASER]

Most of the time that i have seen if the maf isnt plugged in the car will refuse to run, however if its just dirty it can be a contributing factor. Kind of like the 3" GM maf General Motors put in everything... Those get a little dirty and the car will run like poo

Also while its fresh in my head. Do you know how to manually check timing? By rotating the crank 6 times and seeing if all matches? Not assuming just making sure (its my guess thats how you figure it was a tooth off)

Ill re check my timing when i get off school, and I can clean the maf with what? cause thats the maf im using in my car

 

[dsm_92_fwd]

Ill re check my timing when i get off school, and I can clean the maf with what? cause thats the maf im using in my car

You should be fine but if youre that worried go pick up some CRC electric plus cleaner

 

[bryanwheat]

Things can happen when mess with the wiring on 20+ year old cars. The wiring can become pretty brittle. You also mentioned that you had a check engine light which would indicate that there is something wrong. I would give that a check while you are at it.

 

[MKETURBOLASER]

well i figured out the problem, i needed to put a intake over the turbo because the radiator fan was some how messing with everything some how ( i have the fan on all the time), this would be the second time i have experienced this first with a non turbo talon and now with a turbo talon.