'95 Talon Turbo runs terrible. Any help?

[turbo_man]

I have a 1995 Eagle Talon Turbo with about 140,000 miles. I will try to give enough information to help someone diagnose my problem but short enough my description isn't extremely long. This is my first turbo car and I'm not a mechanic so any responses please keep them simple. Here's my problem.

The car originally idled to low and would shut off sometimes at red lights or stop signs. I took it to a mechanic and he adjusted the idle up higher and resolved that problem. I can drive the car at about 1/4 throttle and it runs decent. If I give it any more throttle than that, the rpm rev is very slow and seems restrictive. It doesn't feel like it's missing just very sluggish. If I run 55 or 60 and put the pedal to the floor the engine will not rev at all for a couple seconds then rpm climb is EXTREMELY slow. The car is currently getting about 12 miles to the gallon. Due to the way the car runs I try not to get it above 3500 rpm's, but the boost gauge shows that it makes about 10 pounds of boost under those driving conditions so I don't think it's the turbo. I changed the spark plugs and it helped a little but not much. They had bad carbon buildup. I just don't know what to do. I plan on building the engine but I would like to get it running right first. I don't know if it's internal, electrical or what. Can anyone help?

 

[BurrowZ]

Since this is your first turbo car, I would suggest doing a boost leak test.

There is plenty of info on doing one around this forum, and best of all you can make your own really easy!
Or visit www.vfaq.com and it should be under misc.

Also, is your blow off valve recirculated? In any case it sounds like a boost leak test is in order

 

[____Kurt____]

Definitely a boost leak test plus you will find that VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions is your BEST friend!!
Good luck and let us know.

 

[turbo_man]

Hey guys thanks for the help. I made a piece I found on the website you suggested and did a boost leak check. I pressurized the system to about 20 pounds of boost and within 5 or 6 seconds all the pressure comes out. I can hear the leak somewhere towards the firewall but within that amount of time I can't find it quick enough to know exactly where the problem is. Any suggestions?

 

[galantlvr34]

It could be coming from the blow off valve.Check and make sure all of the vacuum lines are hooked up and that the intercooler pipes are all tight and the clamps arent loose.

 

[turbo_man]

galantlvr34: Hey checked all my vacuum lines and they looked good. The leak doesn't sound like it's coming from the blow off valve. I also checked all my hoses and clamps from the turbo to the intercooler to the intake and they're all good. Thanks for the help though.

BurrowZ: I do have an Apexi recirculating blow off valve. Does that make a difference?

I still haven't found the problem but while working on it I did discover a few things that appeared like someone was working on the car that didn't know what they were doing which makes me a little uneasy about what else they could have done. My intake is an aftermarket injen intake. Their are two vacuum lines running out of the side and what appears to be another port that someone welded up. Also the big port out of the side that should go to the blow off valve, if it didn't have a recirculating one, has a play-doh like rubber piece clamped on to cover the opening. That can't be good. I'm thinking of just taking the engine out and start boring it and rebuilding it, I'm just unsure if that is the best thing to do since the engine isn't running properly now. Anyone else have an opinion?

 

[spritian]

If it's near the firewall it's ###### your throttle body shaft seals... When you do the blt, play with the spring/link on the throttle body to see if it changes pitch.

 

[J_HEATH]

Yes, def check the TB seals. Common problem and rebuilding your throttle body is cheap and easy. Also check the injector insulators and I had a friend who after doing a boost leak test on his car was having a leak there. Easy to check just press on the fuel rail around each injector to see if the noise changes. Also, since your car has such high mileage it may be coming from the intake manifold gasket. But I agree with the member who posted above me as the TB shaft seals probably being the cause.

FYI

Before doing any mods to the car do all the maintence you can first, as well as a leakdown test, and compression test.

Goodluck on fixing your issue.

 

[POS_Tsi]

did you try the boost leak tester up to the throttle body? I single out the problem

 

[vee-8-killer]

yooo.... most dsm stock turbos are notorious for leaking out the waste gate.. check to see if your boost control solenoid is hooked up right or at all.. my car has an over boost problem with the waste gate.. fixed that then it was running perfect... or check to see if your maf is still in running order.

 

[turbo_man]

Hey guys. Thanks for all the help.

spiritian & J-HEATH: I blt again and moved the throttle and the leak changed pitch. I'm gonna rebuild it when I have time and I will be sure to post how it goes. Thanks a lot guys.

vee-8-killer: My check engine light is on and showing mass air flow sensor. I bought another one at a junkyard, installed it and had the computer reset. The check engine light came right back on and still shows mass air flow sensor. I now have 2 mass air flow sensors but how do I test them to know if either one is good?

I called all the local parts stores in my town and none of them have throttle body rebuild kits or gaskets. Anybody know where I can get one?

****I've been reading a bunch of different threads on the site. My car has an Apexi blow off valve that dumps into the atmosphere and does NOT recirculate. According to a lot of the threads that could be a big part of my issue since my MPG are terrible and the check engine light is on and show mass air flow sensor even though I've put another one on. I'm pretty sure that the guy I bought the car from didn't know anything about tuning or how to change the BOV correctly. Since I have the Apexi blow off valve and Injen intake how do I hook up the blow off valve to get it to recirculate? Do I need to put a stock intake and blow off valve back on it or what?

 

[IQ685]

All you have to do to recirc your BOV is first clean out all that "Playdoe looking" stuff that the guy stuffed into the intake tube and then if your BOV has an outlet that looks like you can attach a hose to it, attach said hose to the BOV and run it to that port that you just cleaned out on your intake pipe. Or you can go the difficult rought and buy a General Motors blow trough MAF sensor and AMF translator(if you don't have DSMlink) and you can vent your BOV to atmosphere without issues. The reason that we have to recirc our BOV's is because the BOV is downstream of our MAF sensor and therefore when the BOV opens you're releasing air that the MAF sensor has already metered and the computer thinks is going through the engine. Therefore you will run into a brief extreme lean condition becasue the ECM thinks that there is more air going into the engine than there actually is. I don't believe that your lack of recirc is causing your loss of power, because a nonrecirculated BOV will only cause you issues when the BOV is activated and under normal acceleration it is not activated until you let off the gas and it sees a difference in pressure across the throttle body between charge tubing and intake manifold. Plus an aid to helping you find a leak with the leak tester is water with a little bit of dish soap added in that you either have in a spray bottle or if you're feeling cheap and don't have a spray bottle you can just pour the solution on the loctaion that you suspcect a leak and once it hits the surface that is leaking it will either start to form little foamy bubbles or it will start to spray violently away from the leak depending on how large the leak is.



I'll state it now, I appologize for writing a book, but I'm bored off my butt at work right now, so I thought I'd try to be helpful

 

[turbo_man]

IQ685: Thanks for the help. I've been reading other posts and trying to figure out what all the other abbreviations stood for such as I knew GM MAF but I didn't know some of the others. I attached a picture of my underhood setup and an extra picture of a guage down below the battery near the firewall. Everyone may laugh at me but this is the first car like this I've had and couldn't figure out what that guage was? Anybody know? Also in the first picture you will notice big port in the exhaust with the green stuff over it and their is a port that is welded shut on the front (probably for the recirculating hose.) If I buy a GM MAF what year or model do I need and where do I get the translator?

 

[IQ685]

The guage is a fuel pressure guage(though I'm somewhat questioning the intelegence of the loctaion of that guage, but I guess if it works it works) it's plugged into the banjo fitting that connects the fuel filter to the hose that runs to your fuel rail. Plus believe me you're better off just getting a new BOV(for I don't see anywhere to attach a hose to that one) and removing whatever that is plugging the port on you intake tube virtually right under your BOV and running a hose between the 2. Unless you've just got an amount of cash burning a hole in your pocket. A new BOV will cost somewhere between $15 for one off of EBAY to maybe $100+ for a brand name performance BOV.

And I beleive the port that's welded shut on the front of the intake tube is a return line from your factory wastegate actuator solenoid, though don't quote me on that one.

 

[turbo_man]

IQ685: Should I get a GM MAF and a translator or a new BOV that is recirculating? Should I get a new intake also? BTW this engine has a lot of obvious problems and was not taken care of very well. My goal is to get it running properly (or at least considerably better gas mileage than its current 12mpg). Then I'm going to drive the car until I can build an engine that I'm going to get a junkyard so I have something to drive while I'm building the other one. I just can't afford the gas right now. But I don't want to put a considerable amount of money into this engine just enough to be fixed where I can drive it and then sell it when I'm finished building the other one.

 

[IQ685]

Recirced BOV and no you souldn't need to get a new intake, just drill a hole in the intake and tap it, or get someone to weld in a bung that you can attach a pipe nipple to, to replace the port that was welded closed. And on your frankly horrible gas milage, I'm not really sure I can diagnose that without working on the car myself, sorry.

 

[turbo_man]

Hey guys. Sorry I haven't posted any updates for a while. I've been busy at work and haven't had time to work on the car until recently.

I went to the junkyard and replaced the Apexi BOV with the factory BOV and reinstalled hose from BOV to intake. The check engine light was on showing mass air flow sensor but now it is off.

I don't have insurance on the car, so I haven't been able to test drive it yet but it starts much faster now, instead of turning over SEVERAL times before starting up. It runs MUCH better when revving the engine. It did stall and miss a little when I restarted it but after letting it idle a few minutes and revving the engine it revvs up fine now.

Obviously being ran like that for a while it's probably pretty gunked up with buildup. I'm thinking of putting new plugs in and running some seafoam through it to help clean it out and then see how it drives. Is seafoam safe with a turbo car and is it a good product? I've never used it before. Anybody have any other suggestions? Thanks so much for everyone's help.

 

[95AWD6Bolt]

Hey guys. Sorry I haven't posted any updates for a while. I've been busy at work and haven't had time to work on the car until recently.

I went to the junkyard and replaced the Apexi BOV with the factory BOV and reinstalled hose from BOV to intake. The check engine light was on showing mass air flow sensor but now it is off.

I don't have insurance on the car, so I haven't been able to test drive it yet but it starts much faster now, instead of turning over SEVERAL times before starting up. It runs MUCH better when revving the engine. It did stall and miss a little when I restarted it but after letting it idle a few minutes and revving the engine it revvs up fine now.

Obviously being ran like that for a while it's probably pretty gunked up with buildup. I'm thinking of putting new plugs in and running some seafoam through it to help clean it out and then see how it drives. Is seafoam safe with a turbo car and is it a good product? I've never used it before. Anybody have any other suggestions? Thanks so much for everyone's help.

Ahhh...arent you required to have insurance on your car?

Your lucky to have a dsm in a local junkyard intact enough to get a bov, most here are stripped.

 

[turbo_man]

95AWD6Bolt: Haha...I don't have to have insurance if I'm not driving it. It's been sitting in my garage for a month or two. My local junkyard had a eclipse turbo in decent shape guy had brought in and junked because the girl he bought it from moved and didn't give him the title. So he junked the car with everything intact. I got lucky. BTW this is way off topic but while at the junkyard the guy working there mentioned they had just crushed a '98 supra that was in complete about 3 weeks ago because they had it a while and couldn't sell anything because they couldn't find anybody that needed parts off it. I don't know if it was twin turbo or not but made me sick. Needless to say I left my business card and told him to call me if they got anymore...Haha...fat chance but worth a shot.

 

[turbo_man]

I ran some seafoam through my car. It made a lot of smoke but I can't tell it runs any different. I'm thinking of taking the engine out and start building it. I think that I will find and/or eliminate the problem during a complete build. My only reservation is obviously I don't want to install the engine management system and do the tuning myself, but I would like to teardown and build the engine myself. I just don't want to wind up assembling everything and from "lack of knowledge" do something incorrect and have to tear it all apart again or pay someone else to go back and fix it. I want to build the car to run on pump gas, no nitrous, and be as fast as possible without having to rebuild all the time. I have several years experience in custom fabrication and body work, but I have no real mechanic experience. Is building a dsm above my ability, or anyone have any tips or suggestions to keep in mind? Also, can anyone recommend a good dsm shop to take my car for building and tuning work in Kentucky or neighboring state? Thanks for all the help guys.